Has the Project been a success? Or is our manager a proven bottler?

[Farzad]

Arteta has now established his track record of being a proven choker and bottler. How do we move on from here? More players and big transfers to be misused and chucked aside by our Affluenza prat manager who is only responsible when we win? When we lose it is the players fault, Edu, Kroenke, or non existent injury crisis. What are your thoughts on the Project 1200 days into his reign of error? How many more years does Affluenza Mik need before he will be judged like a man and an elite manager?

How many more year end collapses will it take, and can Arteta win the league; or are we just going to be happy being a nothing club; we are Sp.rs right now; and our fans are happy.

 

[Bucephalus]

The process has been an absolute smashing success. And I still trust it.

Early on in the Emery era, we thrashed Fulham 5-1 at the Emirates capped off by an absurd Ramsey back-heeled goal after a sweeping move that would have done the Invicibles proud. The crowd chanted "we've got our Arsenal back!"

Spoiler alert: we didn't have our Arsenal back. We bottled the Europa League final against Chelsea--I'll agree we bottled that. And then regressed further. No obvious tactical system, and certainly nothing resembling the free-flowing Wenger years we'd become accustomed to. A squad bloated with aging, ineffective players on huge wages. Old, slow defenders who couldn't defend, much less pass through a press. Attacking players who couldn't or wouldn't press. An attack so stale that Tierney on the overlap and making a cross seemed like a ray of sunshine, even if there was no one getting on the end of it. We were bad, or at least bad for a big club. A long, slow decline into becoming what Everton have become was a possibility.

Now? We really do have our Arsenal back. The football is beautiful. The results are undeniably on the up. Yeah, last year we collapsed and missed CL, this year we collapsed and gave up the title. But you just look at the collapse part and see the negative. I see a young, thin squad that had a chance at finishing fourth but ended up fifth, followed by a young, thin squad that had a chance at finishing first but ended up second. How is that not progress? And we've still got a young, hugely talented core, extra money to be able to entice transfer targets, and a much more attractive club situation to entice those targets. Everything is set up now to build a squad that won't run out of steam at the end of the season.

I'll admit that there were a few Saturdays in 2021 when I angrily texted a friend #ArtetaOut. But looking back over the entire period, and the progression from what we were then to what we are now? I couldn't be happier. We have our Arsenal back. So I'll continue to trust the process.

 

[HaffBR]

Sucess. The team is improving each season and is still to peak.

 

[Farzad]

The process has been an absolute smashing success. And I still trust it.

Early on in the Emery era, we thrashed Fulham 5-1 at the Emirates capped off by an absurd Ramsey back-heeled goal after a sweeping move that would have done the Invicibles proud. The crowd chanted "we've got our Arsenal back!"

Spoiler alert: we didn't have our Arsenal back. We bottled the Europa League final against Chelsea--I'll agree we bottled that. And then regressed further. No obvious tactical system, and certainly nothing resembling the free-flowing Wenger years we'd become accustomed to. A squad bloated with aging, ineffective players on huge wages. Old, slow defenders who couldn't defend, much less pass through a press. Attacking players who couldn't or wouldn't press. An attack so stale that Tierney on the overlap and making a cross seemed like a ray of sunshine, even if there was no one getting on the end of it. We were bad, or at least bad for a big club. A long, slow decline into becoming what Everton have become was a possibility.

Now? We really do have our Arsenal back. The football is beautiful. The results are undeniably on the up. Yeah, last year we collapsed and missed CL, this year we collapsed and gave up the title. But you just look at the collapse part and see the negative. I see a young, thin squad that had a chance at finishing fourth but ended up fifth, followed by a young, thin squad that had a chance at finishing first but ended up second. How is that not progress? And we've still got a young, hugely talented core, extra money to be able to entice transfer targets, and a much more attractive club situation to entice those targets. Everything is set up now to build a squad that won't run out of steam at the end of the season.

I'll admit that there were a few Saturdays in 2021 when I angrily texted a friend #ArtetaOut. But looking back over the entire period, and the progression from what we were then to what we are now? I couldn't be happier. We have our Arsenal back. So I'll continue to trust the process.

Let me ask you a specific question you gloss over. It doesn’t give you concern that we collapsed with such an easy run of fixtures and one competition only for 2 straight years. To me way too early to claim we got our Arsenal back, nothing has been accomplished from where i sit. Is this project about winning the biggest trophies or not?

 

[Buhry]

If we win our last 2 games this will be one of our highest point totals in the league ever and a lot of our key players are still years of their theoretical peaks, think we need 1-2 more seasons to pass judgement.
Also in spite of the failings the last 2 months overall this has been the most enjoyable season to follow in many years.
If we have a good summer window and then do below expectations next season this might be fair to ask but not now imo.

 

[Farzad]

If we win our last 2 games this will be one of our highest point totals in the league ever and a lot of our key players are still years of their theoretical peaks, think we need 1-2 more seasons to pass judgement.
Also in spite of the failings the last 2 months overall this has been the most enjoyable season to follow in many years.
If we have a good summer window and then do below expectations next season this might be fair to ask but not now imo.

3 and half years, 400 million in transfers; why is it too soon to ask?

 

[Pop Tart]

Next season is where you can judge fully if he is the right guy going forward. We came up a little short. We obviously do no have the squad city have first 11 or back up but most of the season we were the best and played some good football.

He and the team need to learn from the mistakes of last two seasons but we got cl football amd that was the goal .

 

[Bucephalus]

Let me ask you a specific question you gloss over. It doesn’t give you concern that we collapsed with such an easy run of fixtures and one competition only for 2 straight years. To me way too early to claim we got our Arsenal back, nothing has been accomplished from where i sit. Is this project about winning the biggest trophies or not?

Fair question, so I'll give you a fair answer. It doesn't concern me now. It will concern me next year if it happens again after having even 2/3 of the transfer window we're hoping for.

I'm a big believer in "trust the process", and my views come with the assumption that the process isn't over. The first part of the process involved installing (re-installing--Arteta-ball is more modern, but is certainly reminiscent of peak Wenger-ball) a tactical system, and culling players who were too old/ineffective, too expensive, or not fit for purpose. We've done that part now, and it looks great.

But where we once had a bloated squad, now we have a very thin one. The tactical system is fully implemented, and the first choice XI are as good as you could ask. The next step is filling out the squad with other players who can do it too. The difference between us and City isn't our respective fully rested first XIs. The difference is City's absurd depth, and our lack thereof. We get tired/injured at the end, they plug a hole and keep going. We're back. But this transfer window, and Arteta learning to use a bigger squad, will determine if "back" means expecting 2-4, or serious title challengers.

 

[Farzad]

Fair question, so I'll give you a fair answer. It doesn't concern me now. It will concern me next year if it happens again after having even 2/3 of the transfer window we're hoping for.

I'm a big believer in "trust the process", and my views come with the assumption that the process isn't over. The first part of the process involved installing (re-installing--Arteta-ball is more modern, but is certainly reminiscent of peak Wenger-ball) a tactical system, and culling players who were too old/ineffective, too expensive, or not fit for purpose. We've done that part now, and it looks great.

But where we once had a bloated squad, now we have a very thin one. The tactical system is fully implemented, and the first choice XI are as good as you could ask. The next step is filling out the squad with other players who can do it too. The difference between us and City isn't our respective fully rested first XIs. The difference is City's absurd depth, and our lack thereof. We get tired/injured at the end, they plug a hole and keep going. We're back. But this transfer window, and Arteta learning to use a bigger squad, will determine if "back" means expecting 2-4, or serious title challengers.

Ok fair enough time will tell but his tactical rigidity and poor rotations and subs gives me major concerns. I am not sold on project. But if i had power I wouldn’t fire him after 2nd. That being said if we collapse end of next year i want him out regardless of circumstances. I can’t stomach it and i think the fanbase at that point will see the stress points and mistakes that i see that are infuriating me. If we don’t win league I don’t want an eternal project, we had City; and he couldn’t close.

 

[Vinci]

Why one extreme or the other?

The answer is somewhere in between.

 

[Bucephalus]

Ok fair enough time will tell but his tactical rigidity and poor rotations and subs gives me major concerns. I am not sold on project. But if i had power I wouldn’t fire him after 2nd. That being said if we collapse end of next year i want him out regardless of circumstances. I can’t stomach it and i think the fanbase at that point will see the stress points and mistakes that i see that are infuriating me. If we don’t win league I don’t want an eternal project, we had City; and he couldn’t close.

I think these are next year concerns.

Poor rotation is obviously a concern, but it's also a chicken and egg problem. Does Arteta fail to rotate because he's bad at rotating? Or is he reluctant to rotate because right now the drop-off between first XI and not in the first XI is so huge? His use of Trossard gives me hope that it's the latter, and he'll be better at it when the squad it better.

Tactical rigidity is also a concern. But he's also just got the system fully installed. He should be expected to be able to tweak it in the future, but the first step had to be fully installing the system in the first place, not chopping and changing.

 

[Farzad]

Why one extreme or the other?

The answer is somewhere in between.

He bottled it mate, 2 years running with an easy fixture list; i got zero faith in him at this point

 

[Sanchez11]

Im still on the fence tbh, while the league campaign has fizzled out 2nd is a great achievement. Bar City we have beaton all the BIG clubs which is positive. After this summer it will be HIS squad no excuses and needs to deliver after spending the best part of 500m come the new season. I hope hes learnt over the course of the season, but the process is still ongoing.

 

[dashsnow17]

Gotta be positive about the direction right now, while acknowledging the possibility of a bad future outcome, which is that he builds a good team but it doesn’t win anything. He has to win.

If you fail to acknowledge the bad possibility then you’re in danger of sleepwalking into it. Spuds is perfect example, Poch built an epic team, it didn’t win a thing and the window of opportunity passed.

 

[Sparrahork]

For me this season was about making progress on promise of last, given higher expectations of chelsea, Liverpool and Sp**s coming in the top 4 was what I hoped for. We have surpassed that.

Some of the signings we made last summer were not reflective of this progress, Vieira is a signing from the season before, one with promise but the new expectation has left him behind.

My expectations are lower than others here, I see it that there is a premiership containing 19 teams, above that you have city in a league of their own. I would be quite happy continuing to challenge for that premiership whilst steadily improving aiming for promotion in two or three years when our young squad is more mature.

There are references to how much we have spent. However none to those around us, yet we have managed to leapfrog them via decent recruitment.

 

[SA Gunner]

Gotta be positive about the direction right now, while acknowledging the possibility of a bad future outcome, which is that he builds a good team but it doesn’t win anything. He has to win.

If you fail to acknowledge the bad possibility then you’re in danger of sleepwalking into it. Spuds is perfect example, Poch built an epic team, it didn’t win a thing and the window of opportunity passed.

Winning is the goal of course, but I dont think its the main goal for the club's decision makers.

I think Arteta will be measured on his ability to consistently deliver top 4/5 in the coming years. A position in the Champions League every season is worth its weight in gold. Arteta's role is under threat once we start missing out on CL qualification again.

Ill give my longer thoughts on the project later. I think there are some interesting voices to come here.

 

[Farzad]

The Sexuals are killing me on this poll

 

[Macho]

You'd have to say yes. Took longer than it should have and I don't think anyone would have complained if it were cut short but it's as good as it can get without winning anything.

Regardless of the catalyst, the project got the owners looking at the club again which in itself can only be a success.

Next season will confirm this undeniably though. Arteta's Arsenal would have been really good far longer than it's been really bad.

 

[dashsnow17]

Winning is the goal of course, but I dont think its the main goal for the club's decision makers.

I think Arteta will be measured on his ability to consistently deliver top 4/5 in the coming years. A position in the Champions League every season is worth its weight in gold. Arteta's role is under threat once we start missing out on CL qualification again.

Ill give my longer thoughts on the project later. I think there are some interesting voices to come here.

Everything has a shelf life, this team is on an upward trajectory but there will inevitably be a downward one at some point down the line. If all you’ve done during that time is finish top 4 that’s a failure, in my opinion!!

 

[Riou]

People thinking this was a thread that @farzad4daarse wanted an actual discussion on the title subject to be had, when really he just wanted to **** on Arteta like...