Country: England
Emery was slaughtered the minute he walked through this door, when that Ornstein tweet dropped half the fan base lost it.
He’d have never succeeded anyway.
He’d have never succeeded anyway.
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Unai Emery
- Thread starter say yes
- Start date
- Replies 313
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Country: England
Country: England
Emery overachieved but I think the writing was on the wall and the data also proved that even in the season we finished 5th.
Then we had the club buying players he never asked for and it was just a cluster ****.
Then we had the club buying players he never asked for and it was just a cluster ****.
Emery had to go, the football was dreadful, the club was in free fall and the atmosphere was toxic.
Independent of what you think of Arteta and his tenure, sacking him was the right decision at the time.
Independent of what you think of Arteta and his tenure, sacking him was the right decision at the time.
HattoriHanzo
Active Member
Country: Croatia
It's also possible that it could got worse, had Arteta been sacked 18 months ago.
And I'm sure that the club is now in much better situation than it was 4 years ago.
Comparing apples to oranges.
In Emerys brief tenure he manage to lose the key members from Wengers final years and had a asylum full of clowns in the form of Auba, Laca and Guendouzi running the show.
Arteta on the other hand set a standard in which some failed to meet which eventually led to them leaving and Arteta staying. Meanwhile the rest of the squad jumped on board and the results speak for themselves.
boonthegoon
Arteta In by November
Country: USA
Player:Ødegaard
The difference is Unai couldn't take control of the situation. Arteta did.
Emery was a meme more coz of the press / online, stadium atmosphere was nothing close to Wenger's final years. This conversation started by saying Emery was memed after first season finish of 5th and Europa final loss. I don't recall that happening at the beginning of 2nd season at all.
Country: England
Well he was, missing out on 4th and failing in the final to Chelsea did huge damage to him. The club rescinded their planned contract extension and the fanbase called him a bottle job. The players being bad wasn't a thing yet because Auba and Lacazette were still scoring plenty between them.
Also Arteta never took control of anything he was given control, he doesn't own the club. Emery outright said Mustafi and Elneny need to find different clubs, we also know what he thought of Özil, but what was done about it?
I don't see the need in revising stuff when the archives and history is there.
18 months into the job not 18 months ago.
I reckon at a club with Arsenal's resources and talent we would have had to **** up very badly to do as poorly as we've done in Arteta's worst days.
If you ask his fans the squad he inherited was a complete mess yet Emery did well enough in his first season despite following after a living legend. We'll never know but I would never have thought I'd see the day of Arsenal dropping out of Europe entirely which we did.
Because he wasn't sacked when at most other clubs he would've been. That's not an achievement of his unless you want to count wooing some dumb billionaire son as a relevant skill for a football manager (which you could).
HattoriHanzo
Active Member
Country: Croatia
I assume that those who hired him took into account that this is his first job as manager.
And they gave him more leeway.
We should ask our American colleagues here how KSE choose managers for their American clubs, Nuggets and Rams?
Is it normal for them to choose novice?
I never followed American football and I have stopped following basketball about 25 years ago, so I don't know.
I mean you're the one rewriting history.
The team that finished fifth and lost to Chelsea was a lot different to the team Emery had the following season. Sold Iwobi, Mhkyitarian, Koscienly and allowed Welbeck, Monreal and Ramsey to leave on free transfers. Four of those guys were key members from Arsène time while we lost a lot of technical ability with their departures. We replaced them with Pepe, Luiz and Ceballos and an injury prone Tierney with a couple of young signings in the form of Saliba and Martinelli.
The team that finished 5th wasn't as strong as the team that we had to begin the following season while also losing the guys who were considered our leaders. Now the decision to make these changers may not have been all or any of Emery doing but that is one of the one key differences between Arteta and Emery.
If Arteta wants something he will fight for it, just like if he makes a decision he will stick by it. Emery didn't do this, the best example of this is his use of Özil. He didn't like the way he trained and would try and drop him but sooner or later Özil would end up back in the team, the Leciester game comes to mind when Özil proved a point to him. Compare that to Arteta who when Özil come back from the Covid break unprepared dropped and never went back to him.
Emery was a yes man while Arteta doesn't take no for a answer.
boonthegoon
Arteta In by November
Country: USA
Player:Ødegaard
Why was Arteta, with no manager experience, just "given" the control? There has to be something which he did which Unai couldn't.
Country: England
He won the FA Cup with Emery's team and was promoted from coach to manager.
Country: England
Unlike you and Boon everything I am saying can atleast be read online, backed up by articles - compared to "Arteta didn't take no for an answer" based on what exactly?
Going by this, you have absolutely no idea what a yes man is at all. Emery was pretty clear about his thoughts on many of the players he struggled with and signings he didn't want.
Özil and Guendouzi were already training away from the first team by the time we won the FA cup.
Meaning less words meanwhile Arteta has countless actions that have resulted in people believing in him. Did Özil get back into the team? Guendouzi? Aubamayeng? No Josh and Edu backed him, When Arteta wanted Ødegaard, Raya, Havertz, Rice did he not get them? Did he get ESR, Nelson, Saliba, Nketiah to re-sign?
Yes man = a weak person who always agrees with their political leader or their superior at work. So despite Emery thought on players he still ultimately agreed to the decision of the higher ups.
HattoriHanzo
Active Member
Country: Croatia
And why he didn't resign then?
Why he stayed until he was sacked?
Country: England
Ask any manager that hang on until they have been fired, I don’t know. These were literally Emery’s account of things not mine, I didn’t make it up.
Country: England
So? The team that won the FA Cup who did Arteta sign? This was used as something to defend Arteta when he finished 8th twice so I don't even see the relevance to your argument here.
We have no idea how much of a say Arteta had on Özil's axing do we? Unless you have quotes?
Özil did a few things that would anger those above Arteta's rank like his China comments, the pay reductions and the redundancies. Stuff Arteta doesn't control now as a manager let alone coach at the time.
That doesn't make you a yes man, you are instead describing rank and hierarchy.
Emery requests Zaha but he gets Pepe instead and if he expresses Özil is a problem and he sticks around, how does this make him weak or a yes man?
How on earth do you know that the higher ups hadn't learned from Emery and decided to back Arteta with Özil the 2nd time around?
HattoriHanzo
Active Member
Country: Croatia
You and I and everybody else knows why he stayed, why all managers so rarely resign.
Because had he resigned, he wouldn't get severance pay.
He was "yes man" during his time in Arsenal.
He saw that players don't care for him, press and fans mock him, Sanilehi bring him players he doesn't want and doesn't bring him players he wants.
And he chose to stay, for me this is exactly what "yes man" would do.
I guess in Villa things are very different.
Those above him listen to him, players also.
Probably his English has improved.
And results are here.
Country: England
Unfortunately this isn't a yes man. Low on the foodchain yes, but the guy was quite vocal about his likes and dislikes which is the opposite of a yes man.
'Kroenke ownership is as good as I've seen in football' - Arteta hails controversial Arsenal board | Goal.com UK
Mikel Arteta has heaped praise on Arsenal's owners, the Kroenke family, after the Gunners electric start to the season
www.goal.com
^ THIS is a yes man, something Unai and Wenger have never done to my knowledge.
Emery literally said I want Mustafi and Elneny to go and wanted Ramsey to stay who was not offered an extension, on what planet does this make him a yes man? You and Tom aren't making any sense.
Pepe was never a starter under Emery anyways, if we are to look at actions like you guys do with Arteta.
