General Reserves Talk

[MutableEarth]

EDIT: Since his return from injury, that's 8 G+A in 6 starts. Excellent return from an exciting player. He's a menace, and one we should be integrating.


EDIT: Willock's competitiveness coming to the fore again. Winning tackles and progressing play with his dribbling - we need someone with that style in midfield especially with his size.

 

[akhil]

Willock doesn't look awkward when he's running anymore. He's getting used to his body. Last season in the EL, he just looked weird when he was running.

But this is annoying, we're tolerating way too much dead weight in the seniors and ignoring the academy kids. Since Özil , our transfer strategy has been awful. We've just stocked up on old, overpaid mediocre players.

 

[neimad]

They would have been hungrier for sure. They have the physicality and intensity that Emery requests, but they can also add more to the system and give us dynamism. I'll stick up for Iwobi because even though he doesn't do that well in the final 3rd, he still was our biggest threat - but could you imagine how different and more dynamic that team is with Saka and Amaechi either side of Lacazette? Better still if Özil was in the #10 spot behind them!


Willock is fairly unique for sure. I was convinced by his attitude on the pitch - doesn't shy away after mistakes and very often his mistakes come from youth. He's also got a competitive edge to his game, similar to Guendouzi in that respect. I think his technical quality will start to come to the fore a lot more - very adept at using his passing range and can dribble past people with relative ease. If he continues his upward trajectory, he's going to need competitive football ASAP. He's ridiculously dominant at U23 level now. In the Checkertrade Trophy, he was dominating football league teams on the pitch.


Me too. I'm disappointed that we haven't seen more of them - especially when we're lacking in pace, new ideas and ball carrying. Osei-Tutu is the ideal Bellerin back-up on current form. He must surely be considered rather than shoehorning AMN into a position he is not even that good in.


Seems to be a staple of the U23/U18 teams. They always have pretty clever routines. Ljungberg definitely a pupil in that regard. Ljungberg has done fantastic work individually with the players. Nketiah, Willock, Saka, Amaechi, John-Jules, Olayinka, Gilmour and Medley have all improved a lot in the short time he's been back as U23 manager. Willock definitely Ljungberg's biggest achievement so far - looks dangerous and dominant.


Agree on Willock and Nketiah. Saka+Amaechi could definitely get some time in the first team right now. They have what we're missing out-wide, and would give us an extra dimension.


This is a really attacking lineup I'd love to see a few times in the future

Nketiah
Saka Nelson Amaechi
ESR Willock
​

Would we ever see it under Emery? Unlikely. I don't think Emery trusts them, as much as he may have given assurances that they'd have a way into the team. Ornstein already said as much, and some people pointed to his giving debuts to the likes of Saka and others - but where have they been since? They won't play any meaningful part in the season while we have underperformers playing every week. It's disappointing.

Yeah and I don't think they're silly enough to think getting a minute here or minute there whilst they can see peers lighting up leagues in other countries.

To be honest part of me wants to see a lot of youngsters up sticks and move on mass to the Bundesliga and see how they'd get on. Hudson Odoi has turned down a contract with Chelsea and by the looks of things will move to Bayern and get his chance.

I think it might be a big wake up call to Premier league clubs if this happened more regularly and my gut instinct is it's about to happen. Plus it could be very lucrative for foreign clubs to harvest the players like this and sell them for big money.

In a way clubs are being spoilt with the tv rights money and the easy option is to go out and buy players. I'd love for us to be like Athletic Bilbao or Ajax developing young players and giving them a chance. We certainly can produce them it's just integrating them that would take a leap of faith from the club and fans.

 

[MutableEarth]

Willock doesn't look awkward when he's running anymore. He's getting used to his body. Last season in the EL, he just looked weird when he was running.

But this is annoying, we're tolerating way too much dead weight in the seniors and ignoring the academy kids. Since Özil , our transfer strategy has been awful. We've just stocked up on old, overpaid mediocre players.

And what encouraged me was that despite his coordination issues, he still put on stellar midfield performances against BATE and Red Star last season. And I agree - there's a lot of deadweight and players who just simply don't have the ceiling of our academy players and it is frustrating that we're toiling when we could be giving these youngsters the platform to succeed and I firmly believe that they (and we) can succeed.

Yeah and I don't think they're silly enough to think getting a minute here or minute there whilst they can see peers lighting up leagues in other countries.

To be honest part of me wants to see a lot of youngsters up sticks and move on mass to the Bundesliga and see how they'd get on. Hudson Odoi has turned down a contract with Chelsea and by the looks of things will move to Bayern and get his chance.

I think it might be a big wake up call to Premier league clubs if this happened more regularly and my gut instinct is it's about to happen. Plus it could be very lucrative for foreign clubs to harvest the players like this and sell them for big money.

In a way clubs are being spoilt with the tv rights money and the easy option is to go out and buy players. I'd love for us to be like Athletic Bilbao or Ajax developing young players and giving them a chance. We certainly can produce them it's just integrating them that would take a leap of faith from the club and fans.

There is definitely a large part of me that supports this current Exodus from England as the PL deserves it for continually overlooking it's own talents. This isn't 15 years ago when the coaches weren't giving skilful players the opportunity - there's some real technically capable players being produced now. Hale End is producing a clutch of talent alone and it would greatly aggravate me were Arsenal to spoil it for themselves and mishandle them while giving copious opportunities to underperformers because they're "experienced".

I've been a supporter of the idea of Arsenal having the kind of academy pipeline that Ajax or Barcelona have since 2004. I was a huge supporter of Project Youth and IMO we never should have abandoned it. We got some FA Cups which I was happy with, but the long term cost? Not sure it was worth it. Now we have experienced flops we can't shift and a plethora of talents going under the radar, and suffering under the lack of patience and trust from management and fans alike. It's disappointing to someone like me who sees the value in them and the value in the philosophy of trusting them and building a dynasty with them - which can be done.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

I hope we will see some of these players get a real chance in next weeks. Not some 90 minute debut in the league and then you don't even appear on the bench against BATE Borisov. I think we have space for it. Emery has stuck with Guendouzi through thick and thin and he has had more bad games than good this season and I think some of our local youngsters deserve similar trust. Then there are under performers like Mustafi, Maitland-Niles, Iwobi, Mikitaryan and Xhaka that could do with missing out a couple of minutes against teams we face early in the EL.

Not asking for Emery to play them in and out. But good cameos is something I hope for and Emery to start trusting the players he have already at the club instead of hoping we will fill the squad with players he trusted from elsewhere!

 

[krackpot]

I hope we will see some of these players get a real chance in next weeks. Not some 90 minute debut in the league and then you don't even appear on the bench against BATE Borisov. I think we have space for it. Emery has stuck with Guendouzi through thick and thin and he has had more bad games than good this season and I think some of our local youngsters deserve similar trust. Then there are under performers like Mustafi, Maitland-Niles, Iwobi, Mikitaryan and Xhaka that could do with missing out a couple of minutes against teams we face early in the EL.

Not asking for Emery to play them in and out. But good cameos is something I hope for and Emery to start trusting the players he have already at the club instead of hoping we will fill the squad with players he trusted from elsewhere!

with the way Nketiah has been played, fat chance of that happening.

Emery (or Raul by proxy) has suddenly seems to have decided that the academy is no good.

What is the difference between Denis (our loanee) and Willock?

 

[The_Playmaker]

And what encouraged me was that despite his coordination issues, he still put on stellar midfield performances against BATE and Red Star last season. And I agree - there's a lot of deadweight and players who just simply don't have the ceiling of our academy players and it is frustrating that we're toiling when we could be giving these youngsters the platform to succeed and I firmly believe that they (and we) can succeed.


There is definitely a large part of me that supports this current Exodus from England as the PL deserves it for continually overlooking it's own talents. This isn't 15 years ago when the coaches weren't giving skilful players the opportunity - there's some real technically capable players being produced now. Hale End is producing a clutch of talent alone and it would greatly aggravate me were Arsenal to spoil it for themselves and mishandle them while giving copious opportunities to underperformers because they're "experienced".

I've been a supporter of the idea of Arsenal having the kind of academy pipeline that Ajax or Barcelona have since 2004. I was a huge supporter of Project Youth and IMO we never should have abandoned it. We got some FA Cups which I was happy with, but the long term cost? Not sure it was worth it. Now we have experienced flops we can't shift and a plethora of talents going under the radar, and suffering under the lack of patience and trust from management and fans alike. It's disappointing to someone like me who sees the value in them and the value in the philosophy of trusting them and building a dynasty with them - which can be done.

I am so frustrated right now. The state of the club means the manager is more worried about himself and therefore will not take a risk.

To me it is a risk simply because of our fan base. We build up players and place unrealistic expectations and then we get on their backs as soon as they dip and underperform. AMN and Iwobi are prime examples. Academy home grown products who are called to be sold on this very forum because they don't perform in this **** show of a club right now. Yet they cost us nothing to produce and in the grand scheme of things cost nothing on the wages front. The criticism that our young players receive is ridiculous in relation to our top earners who frequently under perform.

There is also the case that the young players at their worst, are not worse than our 'starters'at their worst. I genuinely believe this.

Willock, Amaiechi and Saka need to be involved. Eddie needs a loan and personally I don't think he has the physical abilities of the three mentioned.

An unfit Suarez doesn't give you more than a lightening quick fit young player who runs at defenders.

Dele Alli and Rashford didn't just become who they are via the league cup. They got trusted and they played. We need these three youngsters to come through and kick on in their development and we need our manager to trust them.

Let Saka and Amaechi share the game time and drop Willock in. He literally cannot be worse than the combination we have now.

--Iwobi----------Auba---------Saka/Amaechi

--------------Douzi--------Willock
-------------------------Torreira

 

[Tom349]

I am so frustrated right now. The state of the club means the manager is more worried about himself and therefore will not take a risk.

To me it is a risk simply because of our fan base. We build up players and place unrealistic expectations and then we get on their backs as soon as they dip and underperform. AMN and Iwobi are prime examples. Academy home grown products who are called to be sold on this very forum because they don't perform in this **** show of a club right now. Yet they cost us nothing to produce and in the grand scheme of things cost nothing on the wages front. The criticism that our young players receive is ridiculous in relation to our top earners who frequently under perform.

There is also the case that the young players at their worst, are not worse than our 'starters'at their worst. I genuinely believe this.

Willock, Amaiechi and Saka need to be involved. Eddie needs a loan and personally I don't think he has the physical abilities of the three mentioned.

An unfit Suarez doesn't give you more than a lightening quick fit young player who runs at defenders.

Dele Alli and Rashford didn't just become who they are via the league cup. They got trusted and they played. We need these three youngsters to come through and kick on in their development and we need our manager to trust them.

Let Saka and Amaechi share the game time and drop Willock in. He literally cannot be worse than the combination we have now.

--Iwobi----------Auba---------Saka/Amaechi

--------------Douzi--------Willock
-------------------------Torreira

No its not. Most fans are sensible enough to realise that if the manager picks youth players that results and performances will suffer as a consequence and are willing to suffer those consequences in the hope that those players will develop. Sure there will be the odd fan who will criticise regardless but the vast majority will be reasoned with.

The two examples you site of youth players being targeted are two very poor examples. Iwobi is targeted as he has had plenty of time to develop and has developed very little and unlike our other youth players he isn't young anymore. He still plays like an inconsistent 19 year old when he is 22 (turning 23 in May) and given the games he has been given, more should be expected of him. Although this blame also falls on the manager who has given him a bigger role than his talent can handle, which when there are better options available to the manager, the player who is getting the opportunities often cops most of the blame which is somewhat unfair but still relevant.

While Maitland Niles criticism also stems mostly from the manager usage of him. Unlike Iwobi AMN hasn't been given regular opportunities and when he has been given them they've never been in the same position. Which the lack of development is largely a result of being misused by the manager, not being given a consistent go at it and making a position his own. Its unfair that he cops criticism but in a large fan base there will always be a few haters but that shouldn't be a reason for not using more youth players especially given many have performed this season when called upon.

 

[Maybe]

To me it is a risk simply because of our fan base. We build up players and place unrealistic expectations and then we get on their backs as soon as they dip and underperform. AMN and Iwobi are prime examples.

AMN and Iwobi are first team members and they are criticised or praised as such. Both are easy targets as they are hugely inconsistent even for their age, but as you said, they are not on heavy wages and we've paid nothing for them.

I think Emery did a huge mistake when he decided not to transform the club as that would be great excuse if he doesn't win EL or 4th place. It could turn out to be a complete waste of time for all parties.

 

[MutableEarth]

https://player.arsenal.com/video/u-23s-tottenham-highlights

Highlights. Saka and Willock are dominant in the highlights.

 

[MutableEarth]

 

[Tosker]

if we didn't get CL this season because Emery had used academy players a lot more, I think most of us would give him a pass - and with our limited funds and our first team struggling it would surely be the sensible and pragmatic way to go

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Willock, Amaiechi and Saka need to be involved. Eddie needs a loan and personally I don't think he has the physical abilities of the three mentioned.

Nketiah physique is not a problem though IMO. He actually has a habit of bullying center backs in all levels he has played so far because he use his physique very well, even with the first team its not a problem. Then he has a stamina which is only matched by few at the club IMO.

His all around performances this season should have earned him more game time. Nketiah goal scoring ability his one of his biggest strength but IMO he needs to get 2-3 games in row. I bet he score if he gets to play more and then it will get easier for him. I want to see him get more game time and trust!

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

https://player.arsenal.com/video/u-23s-tottenham-highlights

Highlights. Saka and Willock are dominant in the highlights.

First goal : Nketiah back heel to Saka who cross it to Amiechi who cuts it back to Willock with late run into the box to score the goal!

 

[Tourbillion]

Nketiah looks class whenever I see him. Infuriating he's not given more chances.

And what the hell are we playing at with wasters like Iwobi and Mkhitaryan when we have powerhouse Saka and twinkle-toes Amaechi in waiting?

 

[Wrighty4eva]

If Emery doesn't find a way to integrate one of Nketiah, saka, Ameachi or Willock, he will surely run the risk of losing one if not all, a young player needs to feel his effort is being rewarded, not only that but you can only develop so much playing under 23 football.

 

[krackpot]

I am most fearful for Nketiah. Can see him get very discouraged to not eveen get a few moments in the game .

 

[asukru]

Our young guns need to be given more chances because what we are seeing now is boring to watch from our first team, we need something different. I personally want to see Saka start a couple of our next home games.

 

[akhil]

And what encouraged me was that despite his coordination issues, he still put on stellar midfield performances against BATE and Red Star last season. And I agree - there's a lot of deadweight and players who just simply don't have the ceiling of our academy players and it is frustrating that we're toiling when we could be giving these youngsters the platform to succeed and I firmly believe that they (and we) can succeed.

There's a big part of me that misses Wenger in this regard. The deadweight build up under him was generally him trusting good players too much after injury or something or some absolute cheap gambles like Sanogo. But the last couple years the transfers make no sense. Kola on a free(big salary) when he barely looks like a LB. 60 mil on PEA when we spent 50 on Lacazette 6 months earlier, not saying PEA is not a good player. Lich looks an absolute dud, 3 very similar senior centrebacks with pretty much the same negatives. No wonder Emery liked Holding so much, the defense just looked calmer when he was on the pitch. Chambers being sent on loan after basically being our best CB last season (not saying much but he was the best one last year). Not gonna say much about the Özil situation except this, he's better and still more consistent than whoever's starting over him despite his faults.

Lucas and Matteo are bright spots but both are very young and new to the club and culture.

Weird thing with Emery, he places a lot trust in Guendouzi in a very vital position while not giving the academy wingers a chance where it's far less of a liability.

Just been disheartened about this season in general, I thought Emery was a little more adventurous in his football than he's shown so far. Thought he'd give youth more chances than he has after he gave a lot of chances to the youth at PSG.

 

[Sniper Mik]

There's a big part of me that misses Wenger in this regard. The deadweight build up under him was generally him trusting good players too much after injury or something or some absolute cheap gambles like Sanogo. But the last couple years the transfers make no sense. Kola on a free(big salary) when he barely looks like a LB. 60 mil on PEA when we spent 50 on Lacazette 6 months earlier, not saying PEA is not a good player. Lich looks an absolute dud, 3 very similar senior centrebacks with pretty much the same negatives. No wonder Emery liked Holding so much, the defense just looked calmer when he was on the pitch. Chambers being sent on loan after basically being our best CB last season (not saying much but he was the best one last year). Not gonna say much about the Özil situation except this, he's better and still more consistent than whoever's starting over him despite his faults.

Lucas and Matteo are bright spots but both are very young and new to the club and culture.

Weird thing with Emery, he places a lot trust in Guendouzi in a very vital position while not giving the academy wingers a chance where it's far less of a liability.

Just been disheartened about this season in general, I thought Emery was a little more adventurous in his football than he's shown so far. Thought he'd give youth more chances than he has after he gave a lot of chances to the youth at PSG.

I think Emery is under a lot of pressure to deliver CL for next season. That's what he was brought in to do as explicitly mentioned in numerous interviews by the top brass, players and Emery himself. He probably feels he doesn't have the luxury of being patient with the youth and is opting to go with the seniors. If he fails to deliver this either through Top 4 or winning the EL, his position will certainly under some serious scrutiny in the summer. A trophyless season without CL football for the next one is the worst possible outcome for him.