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Aaron Ramsey: BianconAaron

Do You Consider Aaron Ramsey An Arsenal Legend?

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    126
  • Poll closed .
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redanddread

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
I hope that this game will give Ramsey the confidence to continue playing well for the Wales NT & then he can bring that confidence into next season for Arsenal. However, there's no getting away from the fact that he didn't have his best season last year whilst playing in his preferred CM role. His ball control, decision making, passing, goal scoring were all relatively poor for a player of Ramsey's supposed qualities.

If he is to succeed at the very highest level then we would expect a return to his 2013/14 form. He's still a very good player but not the WC player we all thought we had in 13/14. He needs to improve in Arsenal colours without doubt - hopefully that will happen next season after a good showing at the Euro's.
 
N

NotAUserName

Guest
4R5Emaniac said:
Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo's biggest issue is that they're celebrities who don't do defensive movements or tracking as well as the other trio at Barca along with being a bit inferior.

I don't say they are irrelevant but you're paying too much attention on those statistics and not enough on how they come about or their significance in context.

So you're in agreement that these superior technical players don't really require the stuff which Ramsey provides? So Santi, Elneny, Wilshere are superior midfielders according to clear evidence.

Yaya Toure is a far superior player to Ramsey and I mentioned earlier that Ramsey doesn't have the natural strength or physical attributes to be taken that seriously for all his engine. Matuidi isn't a poor indisciplined runner, Schweinsteiger has more to his game in defensive and offensive things like passing, good positioning but not exactly a b2b. Marchisio and Vidal are better players- Marchisio is better as a DLP too btw, and he doesn't go venturing forward glory hunting. Vidal, I've said earlier. Khedira is a fantastic player if not a great one, very good defensively, strong and doesn't go venturing up field. Pogba does have Ramsey like tendencies but he is a far far superior footballer with evidence to back up his fancy stuff does work more often than not. You've mentioned players whose qualities Ramsey doesn't have and we have superior midfield players to him.

Exactly, so all of what the "Ramsey is our best central midfielder and complete" based on nothing but a few stats that have been refuted and they are highly influenced for/against him due to the players surrounding him like the others.

I didn't say that it was all because of Ramsey or that he is featuring in all of the failures but as you imply that his qualities are supposed to improve the team since he is our most complete and best midfielder. He has played pretty frequently in his favoured cm role but we were usually lacking most of the time till Elneny arrived and Coquelin returned from injury. Ramsey was probably the most prominent midfield player of all of them and we struggled really bad in dicating and controlling the game.

The most complete and best central midfield at Arsenal always seems to have somebody else that needs blaming, somebody else needing to play, somebody else....doing majority of the things so he can try his flicks and tricks and play as a 2nd striker.

I don't get it.
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Yes, Madrid don't necessarily need runners from deep because they not only have technical players in Ronaldo and co., but they are simply better forwards. And this also involves making attacking runs and good positioning in the final third. We don't have that quality or even type of forwards. You also wrongly compare Ronaldo and co. to Santi, Wilshere and Elneny to try and make a point, forwards to midfielders. Ronaldo and co. don't need a Ramsey making runs because they are outstanding forwards. We need a Ramsey because our players (including Giroud) hardly make off the ball runs.

I also find it amusing how you are trying to discredit Ramsey's concrete impact on matches (winning the ball, assists and goals scored) by claiming "context" while singing the praises of how well a pass is executed or a first touch. As I said, keep glorifying aesthetics while ignoring end-product.

Don't know why you're comparing Ramsey to those other midfielders. You simply asked me for a list of B2B midfielders. But yes, to indulge you, I'd rather have some of them instead of Ramsey.

Also don't know how many times you want me to admit Ramsey is not the best at dictating play. He needs an Arteta to dictate play, there is nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make him less complete than our other central players. Coquelin needs a more creative partner to pass to when he wins the ball. Cazorla needs a more aggressive defensive partner next to him to hassle opponents and win the ball since he doesn't have the athleticism for that and a Ramsey on the right too. Elneny's only strength is recycling possession which means he needs a more defensive and creative partner next to him.
 
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ferrarif50hunt

ferrarif50hunt

Established Member
Furious Styles said:
Embarrassing posting. One good game at the Euros and suddenly his disgusting season for Arsenal is forgotten. He was utter, utter **** for us.
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Disgusting season? Why? Because his passing average was only 85% compared to Elneny's 93%? He didn't manage to replicate his 13/14 form but come on, he did no less than any of our other CM's last season.

That post is obviously exaggerated but it's the kind of thing people are insinuating on here. They don't want him to go forward because if we lose the ball we are open, they don't want him to go back because we have defenders for that and because he works hard he gets compared to James Milner ffs. Some proper poverty stuff. Like someone else said earlier, it seems a lot of people prefer aesthetics over actual end product.

Furious Styles said:
Comfortably our best central midfielder, yet he has been playing on the right for two seasons now and got benched by El Neny. Thank you for your clarification, Ferrari, you're basically working Jesus-like wonders here. :lol:
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He finished the season playing along side Elneny, Coquelin got dropped. I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me what useful things Elneny and Cazorla do that Ramsey doesn't.
 
Tir Na Nog

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
Not really interested in getting much into this debate but between August and November when he was playing the wide right role for us (and we were in and around top of the league for most that period) and in December when he was played centrally a few times he was doing quite well in a team that was doing reasonably.

From January until about the time he got injured he was very poor and then when he came back and partnered Elneny he was decent for a few games up until the end of the season.

It was hardly a "disgusting" season just not near the levels he reached a couple of years ago. It's not Ramseys fault both Cazorla and Coquelin got injured at a key time which forced him back centrally when the team had a decent balance (which at least saw us competitive and top for a while) beforehand which was subsequently ruined.
 
Aevi

Aevi

Hale End FC
Moderator
Ramsey is not playing at a high enough level at the moment for my taste, but he has the potential to. Seeing a recent batch of failed projects had understandably made people wary of waiting for him to fulfill that though.

Not a guaranteed starter, but he could become one and is still great to have on the bench at the very least while we're waiting.
 
carlito'sway

carlito'sway

Established Member
ferrarif50hunt said:
Disgusting season? Why? Because his passing average was only 85% compared to Elneny's 93%? He didn't manage to replicate his 13/14 form but come on, he did no less than any of our other CM's last season.

That post is obviously exaggerated but it's the kind of thing people are insinuating on here. They don't want him to go forward because if we lose the ball we are open, they don't want him to go back because we have defenders for that and because he works hard he gets compared to James Milner ffs. Some proper poverty stuff. Like someone else said earlier, it seems a lot of people prefer aesthetics over actual end product.


He finished the season playing along side Elneny, Coquelin got dropped. I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me what useful things Elneny and Cazorla do that Ramsey doesn't.
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I will simply invite you to (re) watch the last Arsenal game and see the fluidity or our MF, how easy were the transitions from defense to attack and how disciplined they were both (contrary to how it was when Ramsey was playing CM). That is just stating the obvious.
 
celestis

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
ferrarif50hunt said:
This is what I imagine some people are like when they watch us:

Ramsey scores a goal - "what is he doing? It's the strikers job to score goals!"

Ramsey gets an assist - "what is he doing? It's Özil's job to create chances!"

Ramsey makes a tackle - "what is he doing? It's the defenders job to make tackles"!

Ramsey makes goal saving block off the line - "wow what is he doing? It's Petr Cech's job to stop goals!"

Ramsey misplaces a pass, despite having 85% passing accuracy overall - "omg Ramsey cannot pass the ball to save his life, wow worst midfielder ever!!"

Elneny makes 65 short, 15 yard passes that do not help us one bit and does nothing else - "wow Elneny, what a brilliant midfielder!!"
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Your'e taking the piss if you think El Neny didn't stabilise our midfield . You think Ramsey didn't pass sideways the majority of the time when he was in the middle? - watch our games again, no only that he just used to wander up the leaving Flamini to flounder around . It got to the point Özil was the one dropping back to pick the ball up . Ramsey got a part to play in this team from the flanks but main man in the middle? hell no, . I don't see that changing for the next season either .
 
4R5Emaniac

4R5Emaniac

Always fresh from Bangladesh
NotAUserName said:
Yes, Madrid don't necessarily need runners from deep because they not only have technical players in Ronaldo and co., but they are simply better forwards. And this also involves making attacking runs and good positioning in the final third. We don't have that quality or even type of forwards. You also wrongly compare Ronaldo and co. to Santi, Wilshere and Elneny to try and make a point, forwards to midfielders. Ronaldo and co. don't need a Ramsey making runs because they are outstanding forwards. We need a Ramsey because our players (including Giroud) hardly make off the ball runs.

I also find it amusing how you are trying to discredit Ramsey's concrete impact on matches (winning the ball, assists and goals scored) by claiming "context" while singing the praises of how well a pass is executed or a first touch. As I said, keep glorifying aesthetics while ignoring end-product.

Don't know why you're comparing Ramsey to those other midfielders. You simply asked me for a list of B2B midfielders. But yes, to indulge you, I'd rather have some of them instead of Ramsey.

Also don't know how many times you want me to admit Ramsey is not the best at dictating play. He needs an Arteta to dictate play, there is nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make him less complete than our other central players. Coquelin needs a more creative partner to pass to when he wins the ball. Cazorla needs a more aggressive defensive partner next to him to hassle opponents and win the ball since he doesn't have the athleticism for that and a Ramsey on the right too. Elneny's only strength is recycling possession which means he needs a more defensive and creative partner next to him.
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I agree with some of the first para but I don't see where I compared forwards to midfielders?

I'm not discrediting Ramsey's contribution but just stating you're over reaching with those stats. And as for aesthetics, its not that really. Good passes,touches, control and how well they're executed always look good which helps the player on the receiving end along with everyone of the team. I'm not ignoring end product at all but the thing is they have to be significant to some level and its not like Ramsey is tearing it up with end product either.

I'm comparing those since you've brought them up and trying emphasize the fact that are better, why that is the case and why they play central midfield with a significant amount of influence. Those very basic skills where Ramsey fails more consistently than his fancy stuff or passing come off. They are technically cleaner than Ramsey, btw. Which basically means Ramsey is not good enough and up to the standard to strengthen your claim that he is"best midfielder and most complete".

Not being good at dictating play really doesn't give any strength to your claims that he is our best midfielder and complete either. The fact that he can't dictate play in any capacity on the ball, he lacks positional discipline, not technically clean and not to mention he gets played out wide is enough evidence to suggest otherwise.

Elneny has a very good engine to go along with his ability to keep midfield stable and Cazorla doesn't need to be running/tackling so much to be more influential because they're technically capable compared to Ramsey to get the ball to a forward player far quicker and not screw up ball possession cheaply.

You've basically emphasized yourself how Ramsey isn't our best and most complete midfielder.

Either way, lets agree to disagree and as the season goes on we'll see what happens.
 
T

TakeChillPill

Established Member
The Ramesy Dilemma, is purely down to Ramesy himself and only he can solve.

When ramsey plays for the team he plays well. When Ramesy want's to play for himself and be the centre of attention, he costs the team.

Whether he want's to succeed at arsenal is up to him.

Just look at Mascherano at Barca, WC DM playing at CB for the team, winning just about everything that needs to be won and became an important player in one of the best teams in history.
 
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