The Diminishing Quality of Strikers

[Aevi]

Pretty self-explanatory really. The Euros have shown that the talismanic position is lacking any notable players with an instinctive eye for goal, or so some people think. Do you agree? And why is it (not) so?

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Is it lack of talent at striker or has the game changed so that it's harder for there to be dominant players in the position? Or a bit of both?

I don't really know, but it is certainly remarkable how there aren't many superstars up front anymore. It's all about AMs and attacking wide men these days it seems. Is that just where the best players want to play when they are growing up now?

 

[Jury]

It's just a poor crop. That's all it can be. Kids have always wanted to be the guy that scores goals, and scouts are always looking for guys that score goals. The demand is as high as ever. There's just a poor supply imo. It'll change soon enough.

 

[Aevi]

Is it lack of talent at striker or has the game changed so that it's harder for there to be dominant players in the position? Or a bit of both?

I don't really know, but it is certainly remarkable how there aren't many superstars up front anymore. It's all about AMs and attacking wide men these days it seems. Is that just where the best players want to play when they are growing up now?

I do agree that this is probably attributed to multiple factors, being the increasing quality of defensive organization and decreasing ferocious attitude strikers possess.

For the first, the game is constantly evolving, and managers are finding new and more efficient ways for teams to play. While it's true that this means the attack would benefit as well, it isn't to as great of effect because there has been less to fix imo. The glamour the attack possesses has made this portion of teams a main focus since the game was invented, while it is well known defenses were pretty poor with only two men making it up once upon a time (as opposed to 4 commonly now). The progress was slower, and as perfection has become a greater goal, the system has been revolutionized. More than ever, it's about the pairing and not the individuals, making it all the tougher for strikers to break them down.

Then there are the strikers themselves. Wenger himself has said the best of the crop come from South America, and it's pretty clear why. They are not only great athletes, but tough fighters, and in this generation have been brought up in much poorer conditions than most Europeans. The few Europeans that are considered great (Lewa, Ibra...) weren't brought up in the best of conditions themselves, and you can see in their attitudes that they're ready to kill to win. Vardy proves this motion even further. As European strikers are coming through these days, they're coming through as people who have lived comfortable lives and money as the big incentive. That "scrappy" attitude that Suarez has, and the past greats had, is not as common.

Then, I generally do think we are entering a slight drought. What I said still plays a role though.

 

[BBF]

There's a drought in everything bar attacking midfielders and wingers largely due to the game changing. Keepers with poor footballing ability are becoming redundant, players in midfield who do one job are redundant etc etc. There's a lack of quality in strikers, but there's also an extreme lack of defenders available too. You have "world class" mugs at CB who wouldn't even reach the bench for some top teams 10-20 years ago.

Can't tell whether football is getting worse, or whether the new money in the game has led to a different climate for these players. I remember watching teams as a kid, wondering who the **** that French barman for Lille was, wondering why he was upfront when he had the touch of a rapist. But they had teams that worked with it, worked to his strengths, and had a solid foundation. That rarely happens today. No one sets up with a poacher up top anymore. If any small team tried, their striker gets bought for 60m and sent off to an oil club.

Football's just becoming boring unless you're some Maltese kid who supports Barcelona, Chelsea, City and PSG

 

[Trilly]

For all of Ronaldo's hard work and determination Messi still sh*ts on him from a great height despite having a relatively comfortable upbringing. I don't buy the having to fight stuff, being a fighter isn't the key to being a WC striker.

Genius is random in both location and time, it doesn't choose where to grow. We could have three potentially world class strikers who were born in the states but spent their lives trying to be NFL or NBA stars.

What I'm trying to say is probability will sort itself out, kids will be born with the potential to be top strikers and if they're lucky they'll grow up in the right environment to nurture that.

They'll be back.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

There are a lot of factors I think and its not just diminishing quality but change/evolution too and not just of the striker.

As the game has evolved with players being more universal and the resources improving to prepare them, the gaps in terms of ability and productivity is closing. The fitness and speed of players is through the roof. The analysis of the opposition helps.

A lot people realised that there is no special need for the striker to score all the goals and a goal scorer has no need to play "striker" as his starting position. There is more space coming inside between the spaces of a fullback and a CB so if this goal getter starts deeper+wider with space ahead as a winger/wide forward.

The emergence of and in a bulk of the creative players. An attacking midfielder is the easiest player to find nowadays.

And Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid have all the best players whereas previously, you'd see Suarez, Neymar, Cristiano, Bale, Benzema, Messi, Muller, Lewandowski etc more scattered around teams. Its not just the attackers as well.

The roles have evolved, too as I mentioned. Central defenders and defensive midfielders just can't play at the highest level without ability to dictate/direct what happens ahead. Vieira imo would be a CB, today. Keepers with good feet and a bit of speed. The attacking players starting positions have become redundant at the highest level. They can't just be glory hunting without working there socks off or be on the wavelength of the rest of the team. The pure winger at the highest end doesn't exist any more.

There is the eye of the beholder factor as well, football viewing/reading/analysing is easily accessible now and in bulks compared to previous. We have expectations of certain roles and our football viewing is also just evolving.

The evolution of the central "no.9" with Totti, Messi, Van Persie, Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Muller, Benzema, Suarez and Giroud. The wide forwards in Ronaldo, Messi again, Robben, Alexis, Neymar, Bale etc.

In theory, you could say that we have a world class striker in Alexis as well.

There are a lot of strikers coming through who can be world class and if you look at the numbers, I'm certain there are a lot of strikers getting more than 15/20 goals this season.

Paolo Dybala, Fekir, Dembele, Martial etc....

 

[Penn_]

Number of potential causes, from a coaching point of view kids today all want to play as a 10 or cut in from the wing. Very rarely have I had someone that wants to play as a CF.

The change to more of a lone foward hasn't helped either, I think a lot of people underestimate just how difficult and isolating that position can be.

If we were still in the days of 4-4-2 then we wouldn't have this problem.

 

[Panenka]

Go through the whole of football history, there's never been a worse drought of strikers til now.
The fact Lukaku thinks he's a don and is seemingly able to pick which Champions League club he's moving to next is disgusting. He's not even fit to lace Kanu's boots.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

For all of Ronaldo's hard work and determination Messi still sh*ts on him from a great height despite having a relatively comfortable upbringing. I don't buy the having to fight stuff, being a fighter isn't the key to being a WC striker.

Genius is random in both location and time, it doesn't choose where to grow. We could have three potentially world class strikers who were born in the states but spent their lives trying to be NFL or NBA stars.

What I'm trying to say is probability will sort itself out, kids will be born with the potential to be top strikers and if they're lucky they'll grow up in the right environment to nurture that.

They'll be back.

Messi didn't exactly have a comfortable upbringing.

 

[Santi's Left Foot]

Two reasons:

1) The general standard has improved all round. Very little difference between players now. (Training, tactical awareness)

2) Every team seems to want to play one ****ing player up top.

 

[Trilly]

Messi didn't exactly have a comfortable upbringing.

The kid went to school while in Argentina then got scouted by Barcelona at a young age. From that point onwards they completely took care of him.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

The kid went to school while in Argentina then got scouted by Barcelona at a young age. From that point onwards they completely took care of him.

Hmm, but had a hormonal issue to grow up with and got rejected at a club first. He doesn't come across like he cares or bothers beyond football much.

 

[The_Roadrunner]

For all of Ronaldo's hard work and determination Messi still sh*ts on him from a great height despite having a relatively comfortable upbringing. I don't buy the having to fight stuff, being a fighter isn't the key to being a WC striker.

Uh, Messi's father was a factory worker in Argentina and mom was a housekeeper. That's working class not really a "comfortable upbringing" especially by European standards.

He aso had a growth hormone deficiency that his family could not afford and the local Argentinian clubs refused to pay for. When he went to Barcelona he was only 4'2 at 13!

I would say he has had to fight a lot harder than most people think. He wasn't some upper middle class prodigy that just had tremendous talent. Messi probably has worked and fought just as hard as Ronaldo, its just not part of his choir boy narrative the way its part of CR's narrative.

 

[Trilly]

Uh, Messi's father was a factory worker in Argentina and mom was a housekeeper. That's working class not really a "comfortable upbringing" especially by European standards.

He aso had a growth hormone deficiency that his family could not afford and the local Argentinian clubs refused to pay for. When he went to Barcelona he was only 4'2 at 13!

I would say he has had to fight a lot harder than most people think. He wasn't some upper middle class prodigy that just had tremendous talent. Messi probably has worked and fought just as hard as Ronaldo, its just not part of his choir boy narrative the way its part of CR's narrative.

Key word in my post was relatively. Messi went to school, Messi had two parents who both worked so you're wrong there.

Also Messi's father was a factory manager which is a big difference from factory worker but I guess the latter suits your narrative better.

His parents were comfortable enough to actually have medical insurance it just couldn't cover his hormone treatment (which cost upwards of £1000 a month so even a lot us in Europe would not have been able to afford that) for more than two years.

You also say local clubs? It was actually Newell's old boys and River Plate who couldn't afford to pay for his treatment so again that's you twisting stuff to suit your narrative.

I think it's fair to say that Messi had a relatively comfortable upbringing especially when you compare him to the likes of Alexis who basically lived in a house made of corrugated steel.

They key word in all of this was relatively.

Also did you know that the Messi family had contacts in Barcelona and that's how they set up a trial for him? Barca didn't just swoop in and save the impoverished kid from a life of chimney sweeping.

 

[Dammit]

The game has changed, the wingers are the new strikers.

 

[The_Roadrunner]

Key word in my post was relatively. Messi went to school, Messi had two parents who both worked so you're wrong there.

Also Messi's father was a factory manager which is a big difference from factory worker but I guess the latter suits your narrative better.

His parents were comfortable enough to actually have medical insurance it just couldn't cover his hormone treatment (which cost upwards of £1000 a month so even a lot us in Europe would not have been able to afford that) for more than two years.

You also say local clubs? It was actually Newell's old boys and River Plate who couldn't afford to pay for his treatment so again that's you twisting stuff to suit your narrative.

I think it's fair to say that Messi had a relatively comfortable upbringing especially when you compare him to the likes of Alexis who basically lived in a house made of corrugated steel.

They key word in all of this was relatively.

Also did you know that the Messi family had contacts in Barcelona and that's how they set up a trial for him? Barca didn't just swoop in and save the impoverished kid from a life of chimney sweeping.

Let's not get pedantic over semantics. The fact is, while Messi might have had a more comfortable upbringing than some players, it was by no means comfortable by Western European/North American standards. Plus, in Europe his hormone treatment would probably have been covered by health care anyway.

I just find the constant comparison that CR was all hard work and Messi was just all talent and blessed by God to be reductionist and silly (and that doesn't just apply to your post but many comments over the years that your post reminds me of).

Messi had to work every bit as hard as CRonaldo to get where he is at is my main point.

 

[Trilly]

while Messi might have had a more comfortable upbringing than some players

Messi still sh*ts on him from a great height despite having a relatively comfortable upbringing

You've just described what a relatively comfortable upbringing is yet you're disagreeing with me?

I didn't bring up European/North American standards, you did.

 

[Reverse Flash]

Its not just the strikers, goalkeepers, CB's, old school wingers, fullbacks are going to go through the same drought in high level talent aswell. The only reason we feel the desiccation of strikers is because it has hit us earlier. There are some great nations already struggling to cover those positions up. Not even Italy can field 5 world class defenders anymore which would have been unheard of a decade ago.

Fundamentals and mentality has moved on from simple hard work to mollycoddling at younger age perhaps? Money obviously has degraded the sport instead of uplifting it. The Dutch generation atm is very much meretricious , same goes for England, Brazil etc

England are lucky to have Vardy, Sturridge, Kane, Rashford and Rooney(even if he isnt CF anymore) but its more of an anomaly. Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany, Brazil etc team starting without a great striker is a tragedy in itself.

 

[The_Roadrunner]

You've just described what a relatively comfortable upbringing is yet you're disagreeing with me?

My point was Messi still grew up relatively poor, in a relatively difficult time in a relatively third world country. He also had to overcome a physical handicap that presents a whole different set of obstacles to overcome than just being poor like CR or Zlatan. So while Messi might not have had as many purely monetary (or alcohol related) difficulties to overcome, he had physical handicaps that CR and Zlatan never had to overcome. So he really didn't have it objectively more comfortable. Messi had to put in just as much hard work as CR and Zlatan did to get to where he is in this era (no one can be George Best these days). And like I said I wasn't so much specifically disagreeing with your post as using your post as a springboard to comment on the general media narrative I've heard over the years which your post reminds me of.