Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[RacingPhoton]

I wasn't editing to make it look wrong. It is a common use of grammar to just highlight the two, IMO, contradicting thoughts you expressed in your post.

The point I am making is that you do not know that. Football finance doesn't work like FIFA... You don;t sell a player for X amount and immediately have X amount to spend on another. The board will still decide how much of the incoming fee can be allocated to new players. You're simplifying the process and heaping all the blame on the manager when in fact there are likely to be many more complications which you either are unaware of or have neglected to include in your thought process here.

Then why was Wenger trying to sell so many players towards the end of transfer window? If the money is not going to come back, he could have just let those players stay.

 

[BobP]

There's a reason why Bayern and City went all out to get Pep. If money was all you needed to be successful, they'd just go for any old coach and certainly one on lower wages than Pep.

Ridiculous.

Don't you know? All you need is money to win, forget about coaches, forget about tactics, those things hardly matter.

 

[Testertestertester]

Ridiculous.

Don't you know? All you need is money to win, forget about coaches, forget about tactics, those things hardly matter.

As usual. Missing the point.

 

[GDeep™]

Lesser coaches like Pellegrini, Mancini, Grant, Di Matteo, Blanc etc have proven the elite budget in your league is more than enough sometimes.

Pep wants Van Dijk in January. Impossible to fail in England when you operate like this.

 

[Testertestertester]

There's a reason why Bayern and City went all out to get Pep. If money was all you needed to be successful, they'd just go for any old coach and certainly one on lower wages than Pep.

I dont see how that is true... If you were the sponsor/brand in a race and you had the most money to spend on your engine and there were no limits to what you could do to your car. WOuld you buy the cheapest driver as well just because you know your engine is better. Or do you make damn certain you win the race by ALSO employing the best driver because you can afford that too....

 

[GDeep™]

Read back to the summer threads on here, I kept saying the league was already over before it’s even started due to the spending levels of clubs.

Played out exactly as I said.

 

[Testertestertester]

Read back to the summer threads on here, I kept saying the league was already over before it’s even started due to the spending levels of clubs.

Played out exactly as I said.

DOn't have to keep reminding us. We know you're the all seeing Gooner on here.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

There's a reason why Bayern and City went all out to get Pep. If money was all you needed to be successful, they'd just go for any old coach and certainly one on lower wages than Pep.

The difference in Pep team from last year and until now after 300 million overhaul on the squad is quite telling don't you think?

 

[A_G]

The difference in Pep team from last year and until now after 300 million overhaul on the squad is quite telling don't you think?

Look at the signings they made this summer:
Ederson
Kyle Walker
Danilo
Benjamin Mendy
Bernardo Silva

Only 2 of those players are integral to the team. Danilo and Bernardo Silva barely get off the bench, Mendy has made a grand total of 5 appearances before getting injured. Look at the team that started in the derby, only 4 of the 11 were signed by Guardiola:

Spoiler

The difference in City this season is down to Pep's coaching, as much as the hipsters don't want to admit it. He's had a year to work with people like Stones, Jesus and Sane that he signed last summer, now they've gone up a level in performance. Players signed by other managers like Otamendi, Delph and Sterling who've been questioned massively in the past have become almost undroppable. He's turned Fernandinho, David Silva and KDB into a formidable midfield, no one could have imagined a trio like that having success in the PL.

If money is all that matters, why did Everton struggle so much under Koeman? They're obviously not spending on the same level as City, but they should still have been higher than 18th or wherever when he was sacked. Wenger's spending more than he has in the past yet is achieving the same or even worse results.

 

[A_G]

I dont see how that is true... If you were the sponsor/brand in a race and you had the most money to spend on your engine and there were no limits to what you could do to your car. WOuld you buy the cheapest driver as well just because you know your engine is better. Or do you make damn certain you win the race by ALSO employing the best driver because you can afford that too....

According to people on here it doesn't matter who the driver is, because you're guaranteed to win by virtue of having the most expensive engine.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

Look at the signings they made this summer:
Ederson
Kyle Walker
Danilo
Benjamin Mendy
Bernardo Silva

Only 2 of those players are integral to the team. Danilo and Bernardo Silva barely get off the bench, Mendy has made a grand total of 5 appearances before getting injured. Look at the team that started in the derby, only 4 of the 11 were signed by Guardiola:

Spoiler

The difference in City this season is down to Pep's coaching, as much as the hipsters don't want to admit it. He's had a year to work with people like Stones, Jesus and Sane that he signed last summer, now they've gone up a level in performance. Players signed by other managers like Otamendi, Delph and Sterling who've been questioned massively in the past have become almost undroppable. He's turned Fernandinho, David Silva and KDB into a formidable midfield, no one could have imagined a trio like that having success in the PL.

If money is all that matters, why did Everton struggle so much under Koeman? They're obviously not spending on the same level as City, but they should still have been higher than 18th or wherever when he was sacked. Wenger's spending more than he has in the past yet is achieving the same or even worse results.

I don't disagree that Pep isn't a good coach, but you can't ignore City's spending power either. That entire squad is built from throwing money at the wall and seeing what sticks... then wash and repeat. Pep being a good coach is what's allowing for all of that cash to stick.

Also, 8/18 of those players listed in the first team squad were bought under Pep. Just to give a different mathematical perspective there.

Edit: And for me, the biggest difference compared to City's team last year is the play from the goalkeepers and wing backs. Which over the past summer are the two positions City threw the most money at the wall for.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Look at the signings they made this summer:
Ederson
Kyle Walker
Danilo
Benjamin Mendy
Bernardo Silva

Only 2 of those players are integral to the team. Danilo and Bernardo Silva barely get off the bench, Mendy has made a grand total of 5 appearances before getting injured. Look at the team that started in the derby, only 4 of the 11 were signed by Guardiola:

Spoiler

The difference in City this season is down to Pep's coaching, as much as the hipsters don't want to admit it. He's had a year to work with people like Stones, Jesus and Sane that he signed last summer, now they've gone up a level in performance. Players signed by other managers like Otamendi, Delph and Sterling who've been questioned massively in the past have become almost undroppable. He's turned Fernandinho, David Silva and KDB into a formidable midfield, no one could have imagined a trio like that having success in the PL.

If money is all that matters, why did Everton struggle so much under Koeman? They're obviously not spending on the same level as City, but they should still have been higher than 18th or wherever when he was sacked. Wenger's spending more than he has in the past yet is achieving the same or even worse results.

Pep is good manager although he plays boring football for most of his manager career. But if you honestly believe that his success is all down to just good coaching and that he could replicate this in environment like at Arsenal. Then fine! We will have to agree to disagree!

 

[Camron]

There's a reason why Bayern and City went all out to get Pep. If money was all you needed to be successful, they'd just go for any old coach and certainly one on lower wages than Pep.

I think the money part is 80% though.

 

[Aevi]

Look at the signings they made this summer:
Ederson
Kyle Walker
Danilo
Benjamin Mendy
Bernardo Silva

Only 2 of those players are integral to the team. Danilo and Bernardo Silva barely get off the bench, Mendy has made a grand total of 5 appearances before getting injured. Look at the team that started in the derby, only 4 of the 11 were signed by Guardiola:

Spoiler

The difference in City this season is down to Pep's coaching, as much as the hipsters don't want to admit it. He's had a year to work with people like Stones, Jesus and Sane that he signed last summer, now they've gone up a level in performance. Players signed by other managers like Otamendi, Delph and Sterling who've been questioned massively in the past have become almost undroppable. He's turned Fernandinho, David Silva and KDB into a formidable midfield, no one could have imagined a trio like that having success in the PL.

If money is all that matters, why did Everton struggle so much under Koeman? They're obviously not spending on the same level as City, but they should still have been higher than 18th or wherever when he was sacked. Wenger's spending more than he has in the past yet is achieving the same or even worse results.

I agree with your point, but it isn't right to ignore the fact that the players in that squad that weren't signed by Pep are still big money and very talented players.

 

[A_G]

Also, 8/18 of those players listed in the first team squad were bought under Pep. Just to give a different mathematical perspective there.

Why count unused subs? Even if you throw in Gundogan and Bernardo (who played 5 minutes), it's still only 6 out of 15 that took the pitch.

Edit: And for me, the biggest difference compared to City's team last year is the play from the goalkeepers and wing backs. Which over the past summer are the two positions City threw the most money at the wall for.

I conceded that the goalkeeper has made a difference along with Kyle Walker, but Mendy played just 5 matches. It hasn't stopped City from winning.

But if you honestly believe that his success is all down to just good coaching and that he could replicate this in environment like at Arsenal. Then fine!

I didn't say that. But do I think he could do better than Wenger has with the same exact squad and transfer budget? Absolutely.

I agree with your point, but it isn't right to ignore the fact that the players in that squad that weren't signed by Pep are still big money and very talented players.

I'm not ignoring that. We know that Silva, KDB, Aguero, etc. are going to play well regardless of who the manager is. But a lot of the other players that are thriving have been derided on here and in the media over the last two years. Who really thought that Otamendi and Stones would have formed such a good partnership? People claimed not to rate Walker and Sterling but those guys are putting in big performances, it would be duplicitous to act this was expected all along just because they went for big fees. Maybe the best example is Fabian Delph's turnaround. That should be a weakness that every opponent exploits yet they've won 11 games in a row with a CM at LB, a player Stoke fans deemed not good enough when they were linked in the summer.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

Why count unused subs? Even if you throw in Gundogan and Bernardo (who played 5 minutes), it's still only 6 out of 15 that took the pitch.

It's called depth and everyday competition. Isn't that what some on this message board complain about? That is, we don't have enough quality competition at several positions.

Don't be naive. The quality of those players help in training and provide a psychological push for the regular starters. I could careless if they didn't play or not. They were still bought. And with your argument about coaching, it wouldn't make a damn difference if it was them who started instead, correct?

At the end of the day, those players were still bought for substantial amounts of money whether they play or not.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

I conceded that the goalkeeper has made a difference along with Kyle Walker, but Mendy played just 5 matches. It hasn't stopped City from winning.

Like I said, I don't disagree that Pep isn't a good coach, which is why I'm not surprised to see him have Delph playing at the level he is as an inverted wingback as a replacement for Mendy. But still, everybody knows Delph is good (many on here wanted to buy him as a DM). In saying that, Delph still fits the money-spending pattern though: throw it at the wall and see if it sticks. City still went out and bought other midfielders after getting him.

 

[A_G]

Don't be naive. The quality of those players help in training and provide a psychological push for the regular starters. I could careless if they didn't play or not. They were still bought.

The original point was about the players who played that day. It's not like he spent loads on an entire 11 to beat United, he used mostly players who were signed before he got there. I'm not going to indulge in the armchair psychology as to whether the subs made a difference, 7/8 of them are regulars who start every week. The only place he rotates often is at CF, otherwise most of the team is set in stone.

And with your argument about coaching, it wouldn't make a damn difference if it was them who started instead, correct?

Well obviously it would, developing someone like Stones is different to Mangala who clearly doesn't fit Pep's game.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Read back to the summer threads on here, I kept saying the league was already over before it’s even started due to the spending levels of clubs.

Played out exactly as I said.

People act like football is seriously complicated, everyone and their mother knew City was gonna win the league this season.

As for the whole Pep doing better at Arsenal thing, I mean it's a pure hypothetical idea that we'll never truly know the answer too. I don't think he'd have our current lot seriously competing for the title tho, we just have too many flaws in our squad. Keeper past his best, CB's past their best, full-backs are decent but not Walker level in terms of what they add offensively, midfield is a bit of a mess bar Özil and Ramsey while our forwards can't even compete bar Alexis. There's a few of our starters that you'd struggle to see on the City bench.

I think we'll truly get to see how good of a manager Pep is when it comes to crunch ties in the CL vs the likes of PSG, Bayern, Real, Barca, Juve, etc all with different strengths, managers and tactical game-plans. I mean this was the department he failed at Bayern, torn apart on the counter by Real then outclassed by Barca before Simeone's Atletico managed to get the better of him.

So far this season (or even the past 2 seasons) he's proving that he's far far better than Mourinho, if you take it that the two Manchester clubs are in direct competition with each other based on their spending and quality of their squads.

 

[rich 1990]

****ing had enough of this squad cost ****. Nobody said we were going to win the league, ffs. What we want has nothing to do with City or their resources. We want Wenger to get the ****ing basics right. Show some ruthlessness with Cech, stop hanging on to absolutely tossers like Coquelin and Wally, be proactive in his in game management I.E subs , sort the bloody defence out, prepare the team properly for early kick offs, I could go on.

If Wenger did the basics right, we'd be closer to City and taken care of absolute ****e like West Ham. We'd probably wouldn't win the league but at least we would have a proper base to work on.

Squad cost is only an excuse for Wenger apologists. Nobody demands we win the league. We want progression that is really not that hard to achieve.