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The tactics thread

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Its a pretty dead position along with the slower wide CAM. Clubs just not moving for the likes of Özil, Ziyech, Fekir & Eriksen this summer even with the availability / low buyouts / short deals.

Hard to see it coming back either anytime soon.

Such a shame, love a quality wide playmaker...the 07-08 season was our best at the Emirates, and a big reason for that was having Rosicky and Hleb wide with Cesc being our fulcrum...liquid football!

A high pressing team is something I also admire, but our style under Wenger will never be bettered.
 

Country: Iceland

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Trusted ⭐
We have big problem in mid and manager not helping himself by picking wrong players in it. Guendouzi xhaka are similar players they more sideways and deep long balls its not working Ceballos Willock the only players we got that can run with ball forward and add creativity so i hope only one of Xhaka or Guendouzi start.

The Özil situation is ridiculous at least have him on bench play him when we chasing game specially like yesterday when we have too much time with ball and space
 

freeglennhelder2

Established Member

Country: England

Player:Elneny
Our best set up is probably...with some debate over CB and CM


Leno
Bellerin holding Luiz Tierney
Guen torreria
Pepe Özil*** pea
Lacca

I dont reckon this manager will ever field that team

Liking this team.

It’s like Emery doesn’t know what’s to do with all the pieces of the puzzle he has.

*** As long as it’s the Özil who showed up in our home game against Leicester 2018/19 - or even within 70% of that player.
 

Dutch D

Well-Known Member & FPL Champion 19/20
It's quite clear that our issues stem mostly from midfield as Arsmile and Yousif also point out.

Our team reminds me of the Dutch national team from 2010 to 2016. What I mean by that is endless sideways passing with no directness, no sense of urgency, and no ability to beat the press.

Our hilarious inability to play out from the back follows from the fact that there is zero movement off the ball. What's the point of playing it short to Luiz/Sok if they can't progress the ball to our 6 (Xhaka) or 8 (Guendouzi) when they can't receive the ball under pressure? We're just getting ourselves into trouble.

I hoped Ceballos could be our Frenkie de Jong, but he's been a huge letdown thus far. Perhaps also because he's being played too far up the pitch while he's clearly not a 10 and neither is Willock. Neither have the ability to drift into the half spaces and consistently produce dangerous passes.

What I mean by 'our Frenkie' is a player who is able to contribute defensively with smart positioning and interceptions, and ability to recover, whilst being able to beat the press and serve as a lynchpin between defense and offense. Basically managing our transition phase. Guendouzi is not able to perform this role as he has to drop very deep to receive the ball (if you look for it you'll notice how often both him and Xhaka drop between the CB's) and he's very slow on the ball. I think Willock could actually perform this role and Torreira is better than both Xhaka and Guendouzi at this aspect.

Having diagnosed what we lack in midfield I think the solution with our current personnel is the following midfield:

Torreira
Willock - Özil

I'm not (anymore) an Özil 'fanboy' and I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but he is the only one who can bring some creativity back to our team. If some reason this is impossible I would seriously opt for Smith-Rowe in the starting line up if he's fit.

P.s. It would help our midfield if our fullbacks would be class and take away some pressure, but fullbacks shouldnt be the main outlet of our buildup.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I have been thinking about this a lot lately and we are all speaking about connecting the midfield to the forwards with a number 10. Özil's name pops up and Xhakas name pops up also. I think its deeper than that. I think you need to look at your squad and split them into 3 categories.

Lateral movers- players who are comfortable running side to side but not backwards and forwards.

vertical movers- players able to get up and down the pitch. Players with recovery and the ability to run beyond.

Players that can do both- players comfortable finding space between lines but can also go forward.

Within these 3 categories you can then put them into an offensive mover or a defensive mover. If they can do both, that makes them a two way player.

Lateral movers- Guendouzi, Xhaka, Torreira, Holding, Luiz, Chambers, Lacazette, Ceballos, Mavropanos.

Vertical movers- Kolasinac (1 way), Sokratis (1 way) Bellerin, Tierney (2 way).

Both 1 way - Özil (offensive only)
Both 2 way - Willock, Saka, Nelson, AMN, Martinelli, Aubamayang, Smith-Rowe, Pepe.

You then look at the players and the positions they can play in knowing that you need to have a maximum of 1 lateral mover in each unit of the team. That will make you a 2 way team.

Formations should be based on the strengths of the players in their positions. eg. Torreira plays as a holder or he doesn't play.

We have the players to play a 3 5 2, 343, 4231 or a 433. We even have the players to play a diamond. All of these will work if you have 2 way players.

-------------------Auba---------------Laca
------------------------------Pepe
-------------Saka----------------------------AMN
--------------------------Guendouzi
Tierney-----------------------------------------Bellerin
----------------------Luiz--------Holding
-----------------------------Leno

My thinking is a diamond with 3 way players allows players to play with freedom.

Auba can be central and drift wide, Pepe can go where he wants and carry the ball to the forwards.

Saka and AMN have pace and power, they can tuck in , drift wide and track back.

Guendouzi can dictate and move laterally with protection in front.

Saka, Nelson, Willock and ESR can rotate with AMN and Saka.

Guendouzi with Torreira.

Auba and Laca with Martinelli.
 

pikey2000

Well-Known Member
I have been thinking about this a lot lately and we are all speaking about connecting the midfield to the forwards with a number 10. Özil's name pops up and Xhakas name pops up also. I think its deeper than that. I think you need to look at your squad and split them into 3 categories.

Lateral movers- players who are comfortable running side to side but not backwards and forwards.

vertical movers- players able to get up and down the pitch. Players with recovery and the ability to run beyond.

Players that can do both- players comfortable finding space between lines but can also go forward.

Within these 3 categories you can then put them into an offensive mover or a defensive mover. If they can do both, that makes them a two way player.

Lateral movers- Guendouzi, Xhaka, Torreira, Holding, Luiz, Chambers, Lacazette, Ceballos, Mavropanos.

Vertical movers- Kolasinac (1 way), Sokratis (1 way) Bellerin, Tierney (2 way).

Both 1 way - Özil (offensive only)
Both 2 way - Willock, Saka, Nelson, AMN, Martinelli, Aubamayang, Smith-Rowe, Pepe.

You then look at the players and the positions they can play in knowing that you need to have a maximum of 1 lateral mover in each unit of the team. That will make you a 2 way team.

Formations should be based on the strengths of the players in their positions. eg. Torreira plays as a holder or he doesn't play.

We have the players to play a 3 5 2, 343, 4231 or a 433. We even have the players to play a diamond. All of these will work if you have 2 way players.

-------------------Auba---------------Laca
------------------------------Pepe
-------------Saka----------------------------AMN
--------------------------Guendouzi
Tierney-----------------------------------------Bellerin
----------------------Luiz--------Holding
-----------------------------Leno

My thinking is a diamond with 3 way players allows players to play with freedom.

Auba can be central and drift wide, Pepe can go where he wants and carry the ball to the forwards.

Saka and AMN have pace and power, they can tuck in , drift wide and track back.

Guendouzi can dictate and move laterally with protection in front.

Saka, Nelson, Willock and ESR can rotate with AMN and Saka.

Guendouzi with Torreira.

Auba and Laca with Martinelli.


Personally I think you need to do whatever you can to get Laca, Auba and Özil on the same pitch together and limit the amount of defensive work they need to do so, completely agree therefore with your front 2 and a number 10 in behind but i'd go for a back 3 instead, the personell we can deploy in a back 3 with the current squad is far better than last season now we have Luiz and Chambers in the squad.

I'd go for;

--------------------Auba-----------Laca---------------

------------------------------Özil-----------------------

-----------------Torreira----------Douzi--------------

Tierney----------------------------------------Bellerin

------------Holding--------Luiz-------Chambers----



both wing backs have good end product and provide the width

we end the creative void by giving Özil his free role in number 10, can be subbed for Ceballos / Willock / Nelson if required

Pepe / Martinelli can come in for Laca/Auba in EL/cups

Torreira and Douzi for me is out best CM duo

Holding, Luiz and Chambers are all adept on the ball, two younger guys wiht the experience at the centre.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Personally I think you need to do whatever you can to get Laca, Auba and Özil on the same pitch together and limit the amount of defensive work they need to do so, completely agree therefore with your front 2 and a number 10 in behind but i'd go for a back 3 instead, the personell we can deploy in a back 3 with the current squad is far better than last season now we have Luiz and Chambers in the squad.

I'd go for;

--------------------Auba-----------Laca---------------

------------------------------Özil-----------------------

-----------------Torreira----------Douzi--------------

Tierney----------------------------------------Bellerin

------------Holding--------Luiz-------Chambers----



both wing backs have good end product and provide the width

we end the creative void by giving Özil his free role in number 10, can be subbed for Ceballos / Willock / Nelson if required

Pepe / Martinelli can come in for Laca/Auba in EL/cups

Torreira and Douzi for me is out best CM duo

Holding, Luiz and Chambers are all adept on the ball, two younger guys wiht the experience at the centre.

That's how we ended last season and it didn't work. You have 2 midfielders who can't cover big spaces and can't carry the ball or recover. Two lateral movers. The front 3 the become disconnected from the rest of the team.
 

Iceman10

Established Member
I don't see the flattish CM as such of a problem as long as our best fullbacks are starting, because in that case fullbacks will be attacking quite a bit of the time along with the three forwards. This is what we should have for PL matches, and when we have less spectacular "solid" fullbacks for EL/cup matches we can have an AM such as Özil in there.

First XI (for PL matches):

-Auba-----Laca------Pepe-
---Guen-Xhaka-Ceballos---
Tierney-Holding-Luiz-Bellerin
------------Leno ------------


Second XI (for EL/Cup matches)

--------Martinelli--------
Saka------Özil------Reiss
----Torreira--Willock----
Kola-Sok-Mustafi-Chambers
---------Martinez----------

This would be better because there's such a big difference between specialist/first-choice fullbacks compared with our backups. I do think failing to select at least Tierney for the match at Sheffield was a conservative/cowardly move that backfired.
 
Last edited:

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
There was a game against Stoke from 2015 were our midfield was Coq as the ball winner with Santi and Rosicky ahead of him, two creative attacking midfielders who also had the nous to play as proper CM at times (similar to City’s now), something similar should be the way forward for us.
 

Wryer

Well-Known Member
There was a game against Stoke from 2015 were our midfield was Coq as the ball winner with Santi and Rosicky ahead of him, two creative attacking midfielders who also had the nous to play as proper CM at times (similar to City’s now), something similar should be the way forward for us.

The issue is - Santi and Rozza are supremely intelligent attacking midfielders who know their strengths and weaknesses. They pick their battles. I can't say the same for any of our midfielders. That mindfulness amidst the chaos is just missing. That presence of mind.

I see a little bit of that in Ceballos, but he needs a lot more time... Which we don't have from him as a loanee.
 

CJJ

Established Member
Question.. assuming everyone is fit, do you reckon we'll have a better time flooding the midfield or widing it? It all boils down to whether or not we prefer the 3man midfield or not.
Because Luiz is argueably one of the best players in the world in a 5 man defence sitting in the middle spraying passes.
We could go 3-4-3 (or 5-2-3 depending how you view it) and use wingbacks as our major width, while still keeping us defensively sound. Like:

---- Auba ------- Laca ----- Pepe ---------
Tierney --- Douzi ------ ? ------- Bellerin
---- Holding ---- Luiz ---- Chambers ----

Thoughts?
 

Oh-Zeal

Member
Arsenal is looking out of place. Instead of taking advantage of the Sp**s and United situation they are just bottling it. As always. Emery's decisions are comical too at times. It works for one big game then when we move on to games where we need to own we just look like we don't know what we doin.

My suggestion would be the diamond. I know it's not a favourite but considering the options we have, every formation has a downfall because of certain limitations in a position. Have Lacazette and Auba upfront. Let them pin the defenders higher. Give Pepe the free role. We yet to discover the type of player he is and I've heard people comparing his movement to the likes of Salah but to me, he looks like a player who just needs to get involved all the time. He can deliver the final ball, drift wide for overloads and even press like ramsey did off the ball. We used the diamond formation for big games last season and we all saw the work ethic of Auba Laca and ramsey. I think Auba Pepe and Laca can work wonders if they discovered a way to press too. Have Torreira play in his best position. If not him, have Luiz there or Xhaka. Ceballos, Guendouzi, Willock are all CMs and playing them in their best position will give us a chance to judge them properly. Niles can even come in. Guendouzi certainly has to start, then u can choose between Ceballos/ Willock/ Niles. We these players can cover the gap that's left by the full backs or come in to play when we go narrow. Willock and Ceballos are tidy enough. Full backs can bomb forward and Play the way he wants. He needs to play Holding or Chambers next to Sokratis. I hear people say let's play both. We can't do that. As flat as Luiz and Sokratis look (both being over 30), imagine Holding and Chambers. Holding should get the nod for me. His got the height and can read the game better than the defenders we have at the moment.

Emery needs to discover a way to play and have a consistent line up. This thing of changing formations and player positions every time makes us look like we don't know what we doin. Especially if he benches Özil for tactics that have no results.
 

TornadoTed

Established Member
I'm another who thinks our biggest problem is midfield, Unai just can't seem to get the balance anywhere near right.

I don't know what the answer is but I am pretty certain that playing only one of Xhaka and Guendouzi would be a great start. My preferred starting 3 at the moment would probably be,

Guendouzi
Willock Ceballos
 

pikey2000

Well-Known Member
That's how we ended last season and it didn't work. You have 2 midfielders who can't cover big spaces and can't carry the ball or recover. Two lateral movers. The front 3 the become disconnected from the rest of the team.

For me Douzi can cover more ground than just about anyone else in the squad, Torreira i take your point but you can drop him out for someone more mobile ala Willock if you need someone more mobile.

Also at the end of the season we didn't have Bellerin or Tierney, both significant upgrades on Kolasinac and AMN which would no doubt help with supporting the front 3

Finally for me, Holding-Luiz-Chambers is significant upgrade on Kos-Sok-Mustafi, all 3 are better on the ball, capable of carrying the ball out of defence which ultimately helps push the entire side up the pitch and reduce the gap between midfield and the front 3, and they are also all capable of hitting decent mid range passes with better accuracy than the former back 3.

So for me, yes its the same formation as last year but the personnel available make it more viable , of course that is just my opinion.
 

Fallout

Active Member
biggest tactical issue currently is inability to progress the ball from defense to attack.

when xhaka drops between the CBs he is either passing it backward or sideways, which is okay in moderation but utterly painful at high frequency. for me, guendouzi is our best player between the CBs - he is secure, has progressive ideas, can dribble, and can turn. he needs to take this role asap and eliminate xhaka from the team.

i'd put willock on one side. on the other side, ceballos. neither of them at CAM. both are very adept at connecting play. if we cant progress the ball with that midfield then we have no hope.

after that, we have to solve our problem of lacking creativity in the final third, but thats sadly a secondary issue right now. you cant hope to win a football match when the majority of it is spent in your own half gifting chances and confidence to the opponent.
 

teamsoutheast

Well-Known Member
What did everyone think of the 4-2-2-2 formation we played in the UEL tonight? Brazil used it in the 94 world cup and were very successful. I wonder if Emery's thinking was to try and pack the midfield to try and stabilise things as we seem to be easily incised through the middle.
 

HaffBR

Designer of fancy pyramids
This is the team I'd like to see (MID-ATTACK)

------------------------- Martinelli
Ceballos
------------------ Özil (or Eriksen/James if Özil is done)--- PEA upfront
Guendouzi
-------------------------- Pepé

Ceballos and Guedounzi offering pressure and distributing the ball from behind, one real ten (like Özil, Eriksen, James) with creativity, Pepé offering dribbling threat, runs, some key passes and FKs, and Martinelli and PEA offering the goal threat, both with decent/good off-ball movements.


Martinelli looked somewhat tired today, but he is decent/good ball progressor at his best.
Ceballos monopolizes the ball a little too much, but has a good sense of the match playing as CM.

Saka/Xhaka/Lacazette/Torreira coming as subs, depending on the occasion and the opponent.
 

Kav

Established Member
I genuinely want to know what tactics we are discussing that Emery employs? because I'm confused when I watch us play.
 
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