Mikel Arteta: Fighting Until The End

[Makingtrax]

No I dont need to rethink anything. How can a club charge extortionate prices for a product that isnt good enough? Imagine Crystal Palace started charging what we charge. Would that not be considered crazy?

An email to the club or Stan then.

But fans shouldn't be whinging about the coach for not performing to their expectations because the owner is overcharging for tickets. That's what's been happening.

What the owner is charging for tickets does not reflect the investment in the team.

 

[14Henry]

An email to the club or Stan then.

But fans shouldn't be whinging about the coach for not performing to their expectations because the owner is overcharging for tickets. That's what's been happening.

What the owner is charging for tickets does not reflect the investment in the team.

I am not blaming Arteta and Arsenal underperforming because of the price of tickets.

I am saying that if **** performances continue as they have Arsenal as a club will have to reduce their prices.

Would you not agree?

 

[14Henry]

But this was because of the deal we signed with the bank though, we didn't have the finances anymore to compete with United or Chelsea as I said earlier...Arsène was told post 2006 that we needed to stay in the Champions League or we could be ****ed, pre 2006 we challenged for top honors on numerous times, even before Big Wengz!

Though we were mostly favorites to finish in the top 4 up until around 2016, there was still a lot of good teams just below us itching to get our spot, we didn't have much room for error really...even though we dropped out of the Champions League in 2017, don't forget Liverpool dropped out of it in 2010.

Arsène was happy with top four because it was greatly helping us financially back then, of course Arsène would want to win the league at the new stadium...but bar 2016 (which was a massive **** up admittedly) that was never really possible.

But how was it helping us? We stayed 4th. We didnt try some other way of getting an advantage. We signed poor players when we had the potential to sign good players. We had champions league football guaranteed basically every year and we signed Cech one year. Think we were the only team in the top 5 leagues not to sign an outfield player.

Are you telling me we only had 10m that summer?

We signed Xhaka and Mustafi from mid table teams more or less. We took so long over Mustafi deal we had to pay over the odds. 70m dropped on those 2. The same summer Leciester bought Ndidi for 15m. They also bought Musa who did nothing but they sold and got their money back. They also signed Slimani who did nothing who's out on loan.

Slimani 30m and Ndidi 15m. 45m. How much would Leciester get for Slimani now. 10m? For Ndidi? 50-60m. Every deal doesnt have to be a success but if you can get 1 (Ndidi) you make your money back and more.

 

[MikelHadADream]

Exactly. I don't get this hate for Kroenke. He's not in charge of our transfer dealings. Arsenal have one of the highest net spend in the past few years and yet we have piss poor poor players in our books.

Even if we have a 300m budget this window we'd still spend it badly. We need to revamp our recruitment process first

His big mistake was not getting rid of Wenger/Gazidis in 2014/2015

 

[Garrincha]

I always thought it was the ticket prices justified by Ivans grand statements (lies) that created this chasm between fans & club.

Was half asleep listening but think they were talking about this on the Arsenal Athletic podcast this week. Debating if the club should be more honest & if the fans would accept it.

 

[Riou]

But how was it helping us? We stayed 4th. We didnt try some other way of getting an advantage. We signed poor players when we had the potential to sign good players. We had champions league football guaranteed basically every year and we signed Cech one year. Think we were the only team in the top 5 leagues not to sign an outfield player.

Are you telling me we only had 10m that summer?

We signed Xhaka and Mustafi from mid table teams more or less. We took so long over Mustafi deal we had to pay over the odds. 70m dropped on those 2. The same summer Leciester bought Ndidi for 15m. They also bought Musa who did nothing but they sold and got their money back. They also signed Slimani who did nothing who's out on loan.

Slimani 30m and Ndidi 15m. 45m. How much would Leciester get for Slimani now. 10m? For Ndidi? 50-60m. Every deal doesnt have to be a success but if you can get 1 (Ndidi) you make your money back and more.

Don't know exactly, but the rumour was the banks got a big chunk of money for 5-10 years after the move, which took away a lot of our budget...I always thought this was stupid, we should have signed for the money to be paid over a longer period so it wouldn't have financially crippled us so much.

It didn't help us on the pitch, as without Dein or Fiszman, we didn't have any people on the board who cared to drive us forward, then Stan made that worse...getting Champions League only helped us on the finance side, especially during the first few years at the Emirates.

 

[14Henry]

Don't know exactly, but the rumour was the banks got a big chunk of money for 5-10 years after the move, which took away a lot of our budget...I always thought this was stupid, we should have signed for the money to be paid over a longer period so it wouldn't have financially crippled us so much.

It didn't help us on the pitch, as without Dein or Fiszman, we didn't have any people on the board who cared to drive us forward, then Stan made that worse...getting Champions League only helped us on the finance side, especially during the first few years at the Emirates.

Getting top 4 became the prize and as long as Arsène got that (which some seasons was incredible with the dirt he had and signed) it made everything else forgot about. Poor signings were forgot about. Selling best players were forgot about. Getting pummeled 5-1 or 6 0 by rivals or in the CL was all brushed under the carpet which was wrong.

 

[Dj_sds -]

I'm not linking it to winning the league. I'm simply saying that a product that was once very good albeit for a few years and has been getting worse and worse to the point of getting beat by brighton home and away needs priced accordingly to what the customers are getting.

The club cant continue charging fans a fortune and showing ****e.

It's simple price elasticity. As long as there is a waiting list for season tickets of 40k+ the price will keep going up. And since people with season tickets are emotionally attached to the club they follow, the club doesn't have the fear of losing their customers to a competitor.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

Getting top 4 became the prize and as long as Arsène got that (which some seasons was incredible with the dirt he had and signed) it made everything else forgot about. Poor signings were forgot about. Selling best players were forgot about. Getting pummeled 5-1 or 6 0 by rivals or in the CL was all brushed under the carpet which was wrong.

I was always of the opinion that it was we just needed to get through to the point where our commercial deals could be renegotiated. When you look at what we did it is astounding, we built up a cash balance of over 200 million and cannabalised the team. When we couldve bought hazard for 25 instead of gervinho for 12, we turned down alonso because we engotiated for 18 and said 20 was too high, when david villa wanted to come to arsenal and we said no we had bendtner and walcott, when Griezmann was ready to come but we bailed at the last minute. These were all relatively simple buys only stupidity would get in the way of. We penny pinched and cost ourselves everything.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Just wait till the Saudis take over Newcastle, you will see what mad spending will do...

We'll be going nowhere under the current owner.

 

[Big Poppa]

Don't know exactly, but the rumour was the banks got a big chunk of money for 5-10 years after the move, which took away a lot of our budget...I always thought this was stupid, we should have signed for the money to be paid over a longer period so it wouldn't have financially crippled us so much.

It didn't help us on the pitch, as without Dein or Fiszman, we didn't have any people on the board who cared to drive us forward, then Stan made that worse...getting Champions League only helped us on the finance side, especially during the first few years at the Emirates.

But that’s the whole point of raising capital through bonds. You pay a much lower rate of interest than a loan but a larger amount at maturity. The club clearly wanted to mitigate the short term financial impact on the basis that we would be financially self sufficient and competitive at the top end (to some degree) within 10 years.

What they didn’t factor in was the arrival of Sheikh money in 2008 to blow the market even further wide open than Abramovich in 2003, and a ginormous market crash. They also gambled on FFP and the homegrown rule levelling the playing field. Neither worked.

We essentially chose to sacrifice short term cash to avoid long term debt. Not entirely illogical but a number of extraneous factors coincided to make it’s timing and impact pretty damaging.

What cannot be excused is Wenger failing to strengthen with a proper GK and defenders. We consistently did what Dems do with the occupant of the White House - dismiss the strengths of your opponent because they don’t align with your morals.

 

[Riou]

But that’s the whole point of raising capital through bonds. You pay a much lower rate of interest than a loan but a larger amount at maturity. The club clearly wanted to mitigate the short term financial impact on the basis that we would be financially self sufficient and competitive at the top end (to some degree) within 10 years.

What they didn’t factor in was the arrival of Sheikh money in 2008 to blow the market even further wide open than Abramovich in 2003, and a ginormous market crash. They also gambled on FFP and the homegrown rule levelling the playing field.

We essentially chose to sacrifice short term cash to avoid long term debt. Not entirely illogical but a number of extraneous factors coincided to make it’s timing and impact pretty damaging.

What cannot be excused is Wenger failing to strengthen with a proper GK and defenders. We consistently did what Dems do with the occupant of the White House - dismiss the strengths of your opponent because they don’t align with your morals.

Relying on FFP was pointless really...plus I feel we should have seen the highlighted part coming if i'm honest, didn't Rupert Murdoch try to buy Yanited in the 1990s only for it to fall through due to Sky showing matches and it would be a conflict of interests or something?

We should have planned for the possibility of another super rich person trying to buy a team after that, even Blackburn went from nowhere to Champions due to their takeover...we should have factored that possibility into our planning, feel a longer term repayment plan would have been much better, as 10 years is a very long time in football terms.

Feel like the stadium move, if done correctly, could have really continued our success, as we were one of the best clubs in world football in 2006 before we moved.

 

[Big Poppa]

Relying on FFP was pointless really...plus I feel we should have seen the highlighted part coming if i'm honest, didn't Rupert Murdoch try to buy Yanited in the 1990s only for it to fall through due to Sky showing matches and it would be a conflict of interests or something?

We should have planned for the possibility of another super rich person trying to buy a team after that, even Blackburn went from nowhere to Champions due to their takeover...we should have factored that possibility into our planning, feel a longer term repayment plan would have been much better, 10 years is a very long time in football terms.

Feel like the stadium move, if done correctly could have really continued our success, as we were one of the best clubs in world football 2006 before we moved.

I agree. There were a lot of flaws with our model. I understand why we didn’t take longer term credit though because of what happened to Leeds. We wanted to repay all our debts as quickly as possible while still at the top.

However we could not have foreseen the simultaneous credit crunch and football price inflation. The Sky TV deal also made lower league teams in England as wealthy as some CL teams in Europe.

The biggest problem with our approach was it was too inward focused and designed almost exclusively to ensure our survival as a business.

 

[lomekian]

We could have had Suarez all those years ago but we messed about. That was one player who we could have sold a few years later for double the money and helped us to reinvest. That said we probably would have spent it on rubbish.

To be fair, with Suarez, Liverpool lied and refused to meet their contractual obligations and challenged Suarez and his agent to sue them. Suarez's camp realising it would take the whole season to resolve if it went down that route decided to backtrack

 

[lomekian]

Don't know exactly, but the rumour was the banks got a big chunk of money for 5-10 years after the move, which took away a lot of our budget...I always thought this was stupid, we should have signed for the money to be paid over a longer period so it wouldn't have financially crippled us so much.

It didn't help us on the pitch, as without Dein or Fiszman, we didn't have any people on the board who cared to drive us forward, then Stan made that worse...getting Champions League only helped us on the finance side, especially during the first few years at the Emirates.

Basically Arsenal spent 5 years meticulously planning a way to make the club more financially powerful in a self funded way, and the second it got underway, oligarchs appeared and the entire thing was down the toilet.

If Abramovic etc hadn't rocked up and doubled wages and transfer fees and the TV money didn't suddenly explode, Arsenal would only really be competing in the transfer market with Utd, Barca, Real, Bayern, Juventus & Milans.

Sadly as soon as we made a massively long term commitment to a particular approach, the entire sporting landscape changed.

Best bit was Man City being given a stadium built with public money just before they became a front for covering up human rights abuses in the gulf.

 

[lomekian]

Just wait till the Saudis take over Newcastle, you will see what mad spending will do...

We'll be going nowhere under the current owner.

Kind of hard competing with Murderous dictatorships who are willing to spend the money that should be going to funding their countries healthcare and education systems on foreign football clubs to distract from appalling human rights abuses on a massive scale.

Fit and Proper persons test my arse

 

[lomekian]

I agree. There were a lot of flaws with our model. I understand why we didn’t take longer term credit though because of what happened to Leeds. We wanted to repay all our debts as quickly as possible while still at the top.

However we could not have foreseen the simultaneous credit crunch and football price inflation. The Sky TV deal also made lower league teams in England as wealthy as some CL teams in Europe.

The biggest problem with our approach was it was too inward focused and designed almost exclusively to ensure our survival as a business.

We also got stung for being in one of the most expensive cities in Europe. A crystal ball would have kept us at Highbury and we'd have another couple of league titles at least. Wouldn;t have been gazzumped for Ronaldo for a start!

 

[Makingtrax]

We also got stung for being in one of the most expensive cities in Europe. A crystal ball would have kept us at Highbury and we'd have another couple of league titles at least. Wouldn;t have been gazzumped for Ronaldo for a start!

Another poster who understands that football is all about money first and foremost and much less about managers. My brother!

 

[Football Manager]

We need to buy good young players to rebuild the squad.

Joao Mendes
David De la Vibora
Rayane Bounida
Xavi Simons

 

[Big Poppa]

We also got stung for being in one of the most expensive cities in Europe. A crystal ball would have kept us at Highbury and we'd have another couple of league titles at least. Wouldn;t have been gazzumped for Ronaldo for a start!

Very true. I still think we’ll reap long term rewards economically but it will take decades not years. Our new stadium is similar size but cost less than a third of Sp**s’ to build, and because of it’s appreciation in value we can raise capital very cheaply.

One thing that remains to be seen is the full impact of covid 19 and what the club will do about season ticket renewals for next season (I doubt people with uncertain job situations will be rushing to commit to an uncertain schedule).