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Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

Why Isn't Özil Playing?


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L3T5 PL4Y

Flair Accuser
You believe that because it is your preference, which is entirely fair enough...Reus is a fine player....but Low made it clear that Özil was integral and would have been in the team at all times regardless of who else was available. Low was really explicit about that.

I don't know if I totally agree with Low personally.
Reus at the time was clearly the most talented German attacker so I assume he'd have ended up starting on that left wing by design. As for Özil still starting after those performances its hard to ignore the evidence. No way they'd have dropped Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Muller etc.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
The truth is no elite club today would touch prime Özil.

There's no place for him in modern football. Football is moving from the archetypal 'No 10.'

They're are a tactical liability. You can't just have a midfielder in the final third waiting for the CM to break the lines and bring the ball to him. Even CF are now far more involved in play like they used to.

That's not even true for Özil. He's definitely not as much of a static 10 as some on here want to believe and want others to believe. I'm well aware he's well past his best used date, but the slander goes too far.

When he broke through he was a left winger/10 with lots of dribbling ability, he then excelled in a counter attacking German NT and Real Madrid as a counter attacking pivot, then had his use in the more possession based games of later Germany and Arsenal.

If you put him higher up the pitch his output goes up, if he has to drop deep it goes down. There were stretches I clearly remember where in games he'd drop deep and become a central playmaker for Arsenal, of course his output would go down, but that doesn't mean he was completely useless.
Same goes for being used out wide for Germany. There are reasons you put someone like Özil wide or someone like Schurrle.

He's definitely got his weaknesses and he's never been a vocal leader on the pitch, but at times he did take games by the scruff of the neck for Arsenal, and he's never as static and classic a 10 as some say. He could bring in his different abilites from different positions and roles.

He's past it, he could've done more for himself, for Germany and Arsenal, but he's been a great player nonetheless. No need to slander him. In the end I guess we're all a little bit disappointed but there's a lot of reasons and I think making Özil the scapegoat is a bit cheap.

And as I'm in the mood right now: I think it's pretty telling some of the most vocal posters re: "I understand football you don't" are the most vocal in here deriding Özil, as their assessments re: his use and profile are pretty telling in terms of their lack of knowledge about footie.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Reus at the time was clearly the most talented German attacker so I assume he'd have ended up starting on that left wing by design. As for Özil still starting after those performances its hard to ignore the evidence. No way they'd have dropped Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Muller etc.

If Reus would have been fit, which is a massive if - most unfortunate thing would be that now if he'd broke the curse of being injured for tournaments he's past it - Kroos would've been benched. 100%. Kroos was in good form but definitely rated below Özil at that time.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
Reus at the time was clearly the most talented German attacker so I assume he'd have ended up starting on that left wing by design. As for Özil still starting after those performances its hard to ignore the evidence. No way they'd have dropped Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Muller etc.

Didn't Özil play every game he was available and fit for (except when they put out reserve teams) for Germany under Low for like 8 years regardless of who else was fit?

You may have preferred Reus. Hell, I may have preferred Reus. But Özil started pretty much every single important match he was fit for that Germany had for almost a decade. So you simply cannot project your preferences on the man in charge.

Its fine to say what you would prefer, after all its game of opinions, and as long as you are respectful to and about people, its all gravy, but lets keep things honest.

Özil is toast and will be gone in a year if not before, but I don't understand why people want to diminish the things he has achieved. He played in all but about 40 minutes for Germany in the World Cup they won, almost every minute in 2010 and 2012, every minute in 2016, and most of all the relevant qualifying matches for those tournaments. He was in the team of the tournament for the first two, and in 2014 was second only to messi in chance creation and was top in passes in the final 3rd, and was Germany's best chance creator in 2016 and 2018. He was German national team player of the year 5 years out of 6 2011-2016 and Arsenal player of the year in 2015-16. He played for Germany for 9 years and was first choice for 7 of them, winning 90+ caps.

He's past his best, his position and style isn't compatible with the best of modern football, and he's not really a good fit for this club any more, but you don't achieve all that and get Ballon D'or votes if you are the player that some on here suggest.
 
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Taylor Gang Gunners

Say Yeh or You're Making The List
Trusted ⭐
Özil
13/14: 21 goal contribution in 39 appearances. G/A every 152 mins
14/15: 14 goal contribition in 31 apps. G/A every 188 mins
15/16: 28 goal contribution in 44 apps. G/A. every 137 mins
16/17: 26 goal contribution in 44 apps. G/A every 144 mins
17/18: 19 goal contribution in 35 apps. G/A every 155 mins

Average: G/A every 155 mins.
Best season is +18 minutes more productive than his average.
Worst season: -33 minutes

Those numbers are the model of consistency. His 'freak' season was 2 goals/assists better than the following one and 7 minutes per goal contribution more productive. Wow! What a freak season that is!!

Alexis
14/15 37 goal contribution in 52 games G/A every 116 mins
15/16 28 goal contribution in 41 games G/A every 117 mins
16/17 48 goal contribution in 51 games G/A every 88 mins
17/18 12 goal contribution in 23 games G/A every 142 mins

Average: G/A every 115 mins.
Best season +27 minutes more productive than his average.
Worst season -27 minutes

Summary
I see two consistent attacking players here. One more productive than the other but both similarly consistent. However I have been told that one was consistent his whole time here while the other is an inconsistent mess who only had one good freak season.

Neither of the two had 'freak' seasons but if you had to pick one....well the numbers don't lie do they.

Jury I'm not gonna @ you this time but I used to slap you around in this thread back in the day before @Taylor Gang Gunners came in and finished you and the rest of your cronies. What you and a few others are trying to do is akin to dancing on a mans grave. Don't try to rewrite the past, relax yourself my g.

disclaimer: I'm not including the Emery era because we can agree that wouldn't be fair in this compaison so save it. Same way I'm not going to include the remainder of Alexis's 17/18 season or the rest of his Man United career. Both players experienced heavy drop-offs so lets focus on their best.

Beautiful. Well done.
 

L3T5 PL4Y

Flair Accuser
Didn't Özil play every game he was available and fit for (except when they put out reserve teams) for Germany under Low for like 8 years regardless of who else was fit?

You may have preferred Reus. Hell, I may have preferred Reus. But Özil started pretty much every single important match he was fit for that Germany had for almost a decade. So you simply cannot project your preferences on the man in charge.

Its fine to say what you would prefer, after all its game of opinions, and as long as you are respectful to and about people, its all gravy, but lets keep things honest.

Özil is toast and will be gone in a year if not before, but I don't understand why people want to diminish the things he has achieved. He played in all but about 40 minutes for Germany in the World Cup they won, almost every minute in 2010 and 2012, every minute in 2016, and most of all the relevant qualifying matches for those tournaments. He was in the team of the tournament for the first two, and in 2014 was second only to messi in chance creation and was top in passes in the final 3rd, and was Germany's best chance creator in 2016 and 2018. He was German national team player of the year 5 years out of 6 2011-2016 and Arsenal player of the year in 2015-16. He played for Germany for 9 years and was first choice for 7 of them, winning 90+ caps.

He's past his best, his position and style isn't compatible with the best of modern football, and he's not really a good fit for this club any more, but you don't achieve all that and get Ballon D'or votes if you are the player that some on here suggest.
Preferrance is't the main issue here. Reus at the time was stepping into becoming a world class forward of the Ronaldo, Robben level category prior to hitting injuries. Its not my preference. Ancelotti with Real Madrid actually said that Reus was the best German player at the time and was being courted for them and Bayern but injuries whilst missing the WC put a stop to that.

What I'm saying here is that Özil despite playing the whole tournament was had minimal impact over proceedings. Topping in those stats usually mean jack ****.

I think you're not being honest and aren't objective to what you saw as you're swayed by the media or general perception of Özil here. Fans voted awards and stuff mean nothing. If that were the case would you say the later treatment of Özil by the fans in the last WC was justified? Fans and journalists are biased, fickle and most of them can't tell what they're even looking at to begin with so that stuff along with stats without context don't mean anything. They're mostly in consumption mode. You don't even have to go anywhere else but here alone you can see that.

I'll give you a small example. RVP according to stats covered the most ground during his final season here. But he didn't run much or put any defensive effort in retreating back to our half bar set pieces. He strolled around for the most part. Özil also gathered similar stats.

What are the stats of Xavi and Iniesta? Modric, Kroos and all? They mean nothing unless you are proactively influencing play not just pingponging percentage passing in the final third. Those don't equate to performance and influence. Would you really rate Özil above Kroos when it comes to your team functioning optimal with one and makes the team win? I get the argument of there not being another wide player but if Özil is the best German player why would you shift him away from his main position to a peripherial role?

I really think marketing and hype regarding Özil has completely changed the perception of Özil in reality that is probably widely accepted with real football people for a long long time.
 
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Elwood

Active Member
A question for the guys who never thought he was great. Why do you think he's not playing any more now? What changed? Tactics, or that he just doesn't care anymore, or something else?
 

say yes

forum master baiter
My summary of Özil’s career at Arsenal:

2013-2015: Decent but underwhelming given hype.
2015-2017: Absolutely elite.
2017-2018: Erratic form during his contract season.
2018-now: Fortnite bum.

Thanks for reading.
 

Manberg

Predator
A question for the guys who never thought he was great. Why do you think he's not playing any more now? What changed? Tactics, or that he just doesn't care anymore, or something else?

Because he’s a poor excuse for a professional athlete. Managers reward hard work, not minimal effort. His ability has declined.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
Preferrance is't the main issue here. Reus at the time was stepping into becoming a world class forward of the Ronaldo, Robben level category prior to hitting injuries. Its not my preference. Ancelotti with Real Madrid actually said that Reus was the best German player at the time and was being courted for them and Bayern but injuries whilst missing the WC put a stop to that.

What I'm saying here is that Özil despite playing the whole tournament was had minimal impact over proceedings. Topping in those stats usually mean jack ****.

I think you're not being honest and aren't objective to what you saw as you're swayed by the media or general perception of Özil here. Fans voted awards and stuff mean nothing. If that were the case would you say the later treatment of Özil by the fans in the last WC was justified? Fans and journalists are biased, fickle and most of them can't tell what they're even looking at to begin with so that stuff along with stats without context don't mean anything. They're mostly in consumption mode. You don't even have to go anywhere else but here alone you can see that.

I'll give you a small example. RVP according to stats covered the most ground during his final season here. But he didn't run much or put any defensive effort in retreating back to our half bar set pieces. He strolled around for the most part. Özil also gathered similar stats.

What are the stats of Xavi and Iniesta? Modric, Kroos and all? They mean nothing unless you are proactively influencing play not just pingponging percentage passing in the final third. Those don't equate to performance and influence. Would you really rate Özil above Kroos when it comes to your team functioning optimal with one and makes the team win? I get the argument of there not being another wide player but if Özil is the best German player why would you shift him away from his main position to a peripherial role?

I really think marketing and hype regarding Özil has completely changed the perception of Özil in reality that is probably widely accepted with real football people for a long long time.

You're dealing in theoretical arguments based on your self confessed preferences and the opinion of someone irrelevant to argue against factual things that actually happened over a long period of time with incredibly consistency, and you say I'm not being honest and objective?!?!

At the same time you are dismissing the stats that contradict you with absolutely no justification. Chances created are clearly important stats - The Arsenal of the last two years vs previous seasons is proof of that!

I have no interest in the opinions of most of the media or fans, but universal acclaim in sport invariably correlates with sporting achievement.

How about addressing the fact that I showed that Özil was first choice for Germany for 7 1/2 years playing almost every minute when fit when you were stating that they would have dropped him. As for his change in role, when the team stopped playing the formation that utilised Özil at number 10 after 2012, clearly his position, surely the fact that they still picked him for EVERY SINGLE IMPORTANT GAME for the subsequent 4-5 years even though his optimum position no longer existed in the team suggests the coach thought highly of him.

To further counter your argument, Reus played much more for Germany on the right, so isn't like for like.

As I've said before, you don't rate Özil, and you think others should have played ahead of him. That's absolutely fine, and for certain matches I agree.

But you are trying to support your position by attempting to argue with simple clear facts. Its fine to have your opinion, and if you just kept it such I wouldn't disagree with you, but if you say things that simply aren't true and are clearly evidenced to be untrue, I'm gonna call you out.

To be absolutely clear, the point at which you say Özil was going to be dropped if Reus wasn't injured is almost exactly in the middle of a 7 1/2 year period where Özil played almost every minute of every game for Germany when fit, regardless of who else was available.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
My summary of Özil’s career at Arsenal:

2013-2015: Decent but underwhelming given hype.
2015-2017: Absolutely elite.
2017-2018: Erratic form during his contract season.
2018-now: Fortnite bum.

Thanks for reading.

My only alteration to that would be 2015 - about 3 weeks before his contract extension: Absolutely elite.

He was very good the first half of 17-18
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
I call it a freak one because people go on so much about it when the truth is there is such a fine margin between 19 and, say, 4,
There’s a fine margin between 19 assists and 4 assists?:lol:
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
If Reus would have been fit, which is a massive if - most unfortunate thing would be that now if he'd broke the curse of being injured for tournaments he's past it - Kroos would've been benched. 100%. Kroos was in good form but definitely rated below Özil at that time.
I remember somebody saying that they shifted Özil onto the left side because they couldn’t play Kroos there but needed Özil in the side. He was extremely highly rated at the time.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
And as I'm in the mood right now: I think it's pretty telling some of the most vocal posters re: "I understand football you don't" are the most vocal in here deriding Özil, as their assessments re: his use and profile are pretty telling in terms of their lack of knowledge about footie.
Shake that table bro! Shake it!
 

progman07

Established Member
Anyone who started watching football around 2010, I feel a little sorry for you in a way.

I think the last decade has seen football get too constricting compared to what it was before, I say it a lot but top players now seem like pre programmed robots, everything seems planned out in advance, it's lost a little magic...this isn't nostalgia, it's just facts.

The sweet spot for football imo, in terms of the perfect mix between technical skills mixed with physical skills, added to outstanding coaches who also gave their players freedom was the 1990s and 2000s, anyone who watched football in this period was so lucky...it was the beautiful game at it's peak...would even prefer the slower, yet technical football before this period, to what we watch now.

Not saying there isn't top players now, but something is missing and I think we all know it.

This is a good post to leave in an thread dedicated to an artist like Mesut Özil, because never forget...everyone here could be trained to run fast for long periods, no one here could do what Mes can do at his peak...
Spot on. Today all teams are coached and set up so effectively and the general physical level of players improved so much, that technical skills have a much lower significance. Players don't have the time, space to do unexpected things regularly, and it's easier to score goals from simple cutbacks than long range shots, individual skills or even counter attacks.

It's much more boring, but understandable as the game has become even more short-termist and result based. There is too much money now in each game, too much to risk to try out a Cruyff-turn or whatever.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
There’s a fine margin between 19 assists and 4 assists?:lol:
You know there is. That’s sport my g. We only celebrate the numbers but the truth is—particularly in Özil’s 19 assist season—that he could play much better and the players on the end of the chances simply miss, or don’t manage to get enough on that corner/free kick to send it beyond the keeper.
 

musoke

Active Member
All elite clubs are stacked with average players but none will take Özil AT HIS PRIME, ok.
But isn’t that what happened and keeps happening.
Özil was 24 years old in 2013/14. This is when we kept hearing “Best No10 in the world”. He was supposed to be in his prime but a Top club (Madrid) got rid of him.
And not a single so called Big Club came in for this supposed world class / best no10 in the world. It was only lowly 4th place strugglers Arsenal and Europes China club (PSG) that came in for him.
How come no Big Clubs came in for him?
He has been at Arsenal for abot 6 years and not a single so called Big Club has ever shown any interest in him while the likes of Ramsey, Sanchez etc kept attracting the big club.

Özil ran his contract down to 6 flipping months. But still not a single big club paid any attenion while Sanchez and Ramsey do the same and are snapped up by the big clubs.

Since Özil has been here I have never heard about Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona, United, Chelsea, City etc being linked with him. It’s a weird thing. Isn’t it?

The only recurring clubs Özil seems to be linked to are Turkish clubs, PSG, MLS clubs, Chinese clubs and Middle Eastern clubs. That’s it.

And he has been a divisive figure for the majority of his time here. His exists from Madrid, Germany and now Arsenal seem to be following the same trend. He seems to p!ss off the higher ups. Did it at Madrid, did the same to Germany and now doing exactly the same with Arsenal. And in all of it Özil seems to be the common factor.
 

musoke

Active Member
Prime Özil won’t work in today’s football.

When you say today’s football is more emphasise on athleticism rather than technical ability. I disagree. It’s more like emphasising on both, instead of just being physical, or just being technical.

In fact, you just need to be good enough to do well in all three phases of the game (plus transition), regardless of your athleticism or technical ability (Although being good in all three phases normally require some sort of combination of athleticism and technical ability depending on the position you play in).

Being a limited player who is just good at the defensive phase like coquelin, or just good at the final phase like Özil will never work in today’s football.
People saying that today’s football is only about physicality and blood and thunder hence why Özil struggles etc.
I just want people to look back 10 years, Barcelona perfected the all round press game. The whole team would press and defend at a unit. Even a technical genius like Iniesta would drop into midfield to try to win the ball. Then once they won it they would attack as a unit.
Look at KDB, Santi, Salah and Silva etc. They adapted to this constantly evolving modern day football. Özil, Mata, James Rodrigues etc have failed to adapt and look at where they are. Just being one dimensional and not willing to work hard will only get you stuck.

Even a football great like Andrea Pirlo adjusted style and position later in his career.
 

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Trusted ⭐
Now i understand the Guendouzi situation but why Özil not training with rest of the squad?
 
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