Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Legend14]

I only asked for a yes or no.

What do you put yesterday's win down to then. Based on your opinion that we don't have the quality.

Was it tactics then? Or why did we win? Why did the sum of the **** parts that you believe we have like Holding, Xhaka, Elneny comfortably beat a team much superior to us.

Yes/no? This is not a deposition.

First, we won because we scored 3.


Specifically, we won because we put two impact players into the lineup that added more movement and better decision making. And, Xhaka played his best game of the season. And, Saka gave the best performance for someone on the right that we have had all season - attacking and covering for Bellerin. I’m not the one giving the manager credit for being forced to put better quality on the pitch.

 

[14Henry]

Yes/no? This is not a deposition.

First, we won because we scored 3.


Specifically, we won because we put two impact players into the lineup that added more movement and better decision making. And, Xhaka played his best game of the season. And, Saka gave the best performance for someone on the right that we have had all season - attacking and covering for Bellerin. I’m not the one giving the manager credit for being forced to put better quality on the pitch.

So what we did was play Saka instead of an underperforming Willian. (Forced but who cares).

We played ESR in front of 2 holders in Xhaka and Elneny (championship level as some have said) meaning we had an option to go through the middle and someone to pick up the ball in the pockets.

We played Martinelli who is fast and dynamic as well as someone who can run with the ball and without it. (Could Nelson do a similar job on the right? Not sure but could be an option some time)

From that what I have gathered is a change in personnel with non performing players being replaced by hungry players and a change in tactics resulted in the team playing better and getting a result.

Just goes to show you that tactics and team set up are very important. And if Arteta a novice can change his tactics and personell to win a match then that "no manager in the world could get results with this quality" is a myth.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Mod Edit: stop telling people to piss off

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Two tough matches coming up. We haven't beaten Brighton in over three years. They'll have a day less rest though.

West Brom will give everything to get a result against us under Big Sam.

 

[14Henry]

.

Not causing any arguments.

I'm saying that yesterday by changing tactics and personnel team performance improved.

Something that was quoted that no manager no matter what they did could improve the results because the quality was so poor.

Yesterday proved otherwise.

Plus il tell you something. Its a public forum. I am free to post what I want when I want and if you don't like it go somewhere else. You have no obligation to stay. Go and play with your cryptocurrencys or watch youtuber wannabe stockmarket gurus tell you what to invest in.

 

[Legend14]

So what we did was play Saka instead of an underperforming Willian. (Forced but who cares).

We played ESR in front of 2 holders in Xhaka and Elneny (championship level as some have said) meaning we had an option to go through the middle and someone to pick up the ball in the pockets.

We played Martinelli who is fast and dynamic as well as someone who can run with the ball and without it. (Could Nelson do a similar job on the right? Not sure but could be an option some time)

From that what I have gathered is a change in personnel with non performing players being replaced by hungry players and a change in tactics resulted in the team playing better and getting a result.

Just goes to show you that tactics and team set up are very important. And if Arteta a novice can change his tactics and personell to win a match then that "no manager in the world could get results with this quality" is a myth.

I think your premise does not lead to your conclusion. In addition, it doesn’t contradict anything I said about the advantage of playing quality players. Matter of fact, it supports it.

 

[14Henry]

I think your premise does not lead to your conclusion. In addition, it doesn’t contradict anything I said about the advantage of playing quality players. Matter of fact, it supports it.

Your tying yourself up in knots. You said the team and squad had no quality and until the quality of the side improved with signings no manager in world football would be getting better results.

Looks like yesterday Arteta rotated his squad leaving out Willian who underperforms and played an ACM/ number 10 for one of the first times and wow. We create and we win the match. He did something different yesterday for in comparison to the last 5 or 6 games and we won.

Anyway. I'll make you a deal as this is getting boring. Don't you reply to any of my comments and I won't reply to any of yours. Its boring as **** going round in circles.

 

[bingobob]

How did Kloop do with a struggling Liverpool side after he came in around the same time Arteta has had with the team?

Struggling? Klopp took over a team that near won the league and had players that won the champions league. He himself won domestic leagues and got to a CL final.

Are you near suggesting they are the same?

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Anyone who makes a point against @14Henry is apparently tying themselves in knots because he's always right.

 

[14Henry]

Anyone who makes a point against @14Henry is apparently tying themselves in knots because he's always right.

I'm not always right.

But if someone says this squad doesn't have the quality to be higher than 14th/15th and that no manager would be getting results with this squad and we won't improve until we sign 3 or 4 players and then with the same squad but with tactical and personnel changes we beat a team much superior to us.

That to me indicates. The quality of the team is better than 14th/15th. But maybe needs to drop a few underperformers and put in a few other players. And maybe by playing a number 10 we can also help create a bit more. Things that us who had a lack of faith in Arteta have been screaming out for him to do for months.

Anyway as a suggested the Legend14 better of you not replying to me and I won't reply to you. Don't tag me in anything don't converse with me. You have your viewpoint I have mine. Your 25 and should be having a lot more fun or things to do than sit on this every day.

Me on the other hand I'm basically retired thanks to a bit of good fortune. I have the time to sit here all day. You surely have better use of your time at 25 and still living at home with your parents.

Let's see if Arteta goes back to 4 3 3 with, Willian and Auba out left after yesterday. Or if he sticks with his current formula.

 

[shoot for the top]

Struggling? Klopp took over a team that near won the league and had players that won the champions league. He himself won domestic leagues and got to a CL final.

Are you near suggesting they are the same?

Liverpool was 6th the season before. Do some research before you reply. Unless you want to go back to the 2 seasons before Arteta came in and talk about how we finished 5th as a reference.

 

[shoot for the top]

Can you go one ****ing day on here without causing arguments? Just piss off, we beat Chelsea, something you didn't believe we would do. Now onto Brighton

You are causing more arguments with your statements.

 

[14Henry]

You are causing more arguments with your statements.

Correct. I might go on a lot but I stick to the debate whether that be who is better player or areas where the manager could improve. He just comes on after his shift in Tescos looking arguments because someone told him to restock the toilet roll section and he felt like ****.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Who's saying that?

What we are saying is changing the team up (which is what fans have been asking for for months) is likely to help improve results along with dropping those players who weren't performing. That happened for the first time yesterday.

The Arteta outers like myself were not using the excuse that the squad has the quality of a 12th-15th team in the league. Yesterday proves it.

Yesterday basically proves if you play the right players, you adjust your tactics and have your team motivated to press and hustle you will win matches because there is quality there. Top 4 quality no. But 5th-8th yes.

I'm as staunch Arteta out as you get but yesterday I liked what I seen. If he gets wins against Brighton and West Brom he can stay longer as long as results and progression continues. Does he have to win every match?No. But he can't beat Chelsea one week and lose to Brighton the next. He needs some level of being able to maintain the performance of the team more than 1 game every 6-8 weeks. After all that's what he gets paid for.

That's not something that someone with an agenda says. That's someone who is making reasonable judgement and conditions to support the manager. Not a bias that no matter what he does he's out.

What I was saying was the general consensus among the anti Arteta fans over the previous months has been that ultimately the poor results have been on the manager. He's the one that picks the team and sets them up.

All that I'm asking is that the same standard that is being used by them is held to when we pull off a good result too, the manager should get the ultimate credit.

There's a lot of 'Yeah but's' though. You can throw around the forced absence's but you know what, as a manager under pressure to start an inexperienced ESR and a kid in Martinelli who's just come back from a long term injury took some balls. It could have backfired. It would have been very easy to play it conservative and have Laca at 10 and Pepe playing and set up to just nullify Chelsea. We didn't do that, we went at them.

Look at the matchday thread an hour before kick off. Arteta was getting slaughtered left and right for the side he put out by a lot of people who are now saying how obvious it was that Arteta should have made these changes weeks ago. To me that's hypocrisy.

The squads not 15th place quality, I agree with you. It's probably 6th-8th in footballing ability. I think we can agree on that point. What it fundamentally boils down to is what percentage of blame you think is on the manager and what percentage falls on the players. That probably mainly determines whether you're pro or anti Arteta.

I know you're fairly critical of Arteta so we differ on that but I can understand the thinking behind your position even if I don't necessarily agree with all of it I enjoy reading your posts.

 

[14Henry]

What I was saying was the general consensus among the anti Arteta fans over the previous months has been that ultimately the poor results have been on the manager. He's the one that picks the team.

All that I'm asking is that the same standard that is being used by them is held to when we pull off a good result too, the manager should get the ultimate credit.

There's a lot of 'Yeah but's' though. You can throw around the forced absence's but you know what, as a manager under pressure, to start an inexperienced ESR and a kid in Martinelli who's just come back from a long term injury took some balls, it could have backfired.

Look at the matchday thread an hour before kick off. Arteta was getting slaughtered left and right for the side he put out by a lot of people who are now saying how obvious it was that Arteta should have made these changes weeks ago. To me that's hypocrisy.

The squads not 15th place quality, I agree with you. It's probably 6th-8th in footballing ability. I think we can agree on that point. What it fundamentally boils down to is what percentage of blame you think is on the manager and what percentage falls on the players. That probably mainly determines whether you're pro or anti Arteta.

I know you're fairly critical of Arteta so we differ on that but I can understand the thinking behind your position even if I don't necessarily agree with all of it I enjoy reading your posts.

Cheers. I am pretty Arteta out but I have no agenda. And I am happy to change my opinion. I am an Arsenal fan. Arteta, Emery, Arsène I don't care about as such.

I was first on the Chelsea thread to say well done to Arteta and the lads. I believe Artetas change in tactics and personell whether forced or not helped to get a good performance.

I also think that he probably really emphasised the importance of the game and that probably got through to Martinelli, ESR and the others like Bellerin etc. Holding and all. All those players I believe care about the club. Are they the best players in the world no. But give me 11 players that care over 11 that turn it on and off like a lightswitch.

My issue was only with people who said the squad quality was the reason we were losing to Wolves, Burnley etc. But then the same squad more or less beats Chelsea and United.

I have stated if Arteta gets 6/6 against Brighton and West Brom for me I will be content to give Arteta more time. Because it will indicate something has changed. And results are coming. However if we draw against Brighton and WB for me it would indicate that this team can only do it once every 4/5 weeks and that isn't good enough.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

I'm not always right.

But if someone says this squad doesn't have the quality to be higher than 14th/15th and that no manager would be getting results with this squad and we won't improve until we sign 3 or 4 players and then with the same squad but with tactical and personnel changes we beat a team much superior to us.

That to me indicates. The quality of the team is better than 14th/15th. But maybe needs to drop a few underperformers and put in a few other players. And maybe by playing a number 10 we can also help create a bit more. Things that us who had a lack of faith in Arteta have been screaming out for him to do for months.

Anyway as a suggested the Legend14 better of you not replying to me and I won't reply to you. Don't tag me in anything don't converse with me. You have your viewpoint I have mine. Your 25 and should be having a lot more fun or things to do than sit on this every day.

Me on the other hand I'm basically retired thanks to a bit of good fortune. I have the time to sit here all day. You surely have better use of your time at 25 and still living at home with your parents.

Let's see if Arteta goes back to 4 3 3 with, Willian and Auba out left after yesterday. Or if he sticks with his current formula.

For the last time we haven't finished 14th or 15th and we won't finish in the bottom half of the table.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Correct. I might go on a lot but I stick to the debate whether that be who is better player or areas where the manager could improve. He just comes on after his shift in Tescos looking arguments because someone told him to restock the toilet roll section and he felt like ****.

Coming from a boy who spent Christmas day on here arguing with people.

I dont work at tescos but if I did I would still be earning more than you and your benefits.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Cheers. I am pretty Arteta out but I have no agenda. And I am happy to change my opinion. I am an Arsenal fan. Arteta, Emery, Arsène I don't care about as such.

I was first on the Chelsea thread to say well done to Arteta and the lads. I believe Artetas change in tactics and personell whether forced or not helped to get a good performance.

I also think that he probably really emphasised the importance of the game and that probably got through to Martinelli, ESR and the others like Bellerin etc. Holding and all. All those players I believe care about the club. Are they the best players in the world no. But give me 11 players that care over 11 that turn it on and off like a lightswitch.

My issue was only with people who said the squad quality was the reason we were losing to Wolves, Burnley etc. But then the same squad more or less beats Chelsea and United.

I have stated if Arteta gets 6/6 against Brighton and West Brom for me I will be content to give Arteta more time. Because it will indicate something has changed. And results are coming. However if we draw against Brighton and WB for me it would indicate that this team can only do it once every 4/5 weeks and that isn't good enough.

I agree with you about pretty much everything here. The most impressive thing to me is how fearless our kids are. You kind of expect it out of Saka and Martinelli these days but ESR really impressed me.

Whatever the managerial situation holds I think our future will be bright if we can keep hold of these young players and supplement them with some more Partey, Gabriel level signings.

 

[14Henry]

I agree with you about pretty much everything here. The most impressive thing to me is how fearless our kids are. You kind of expect it out of Saka and Martinelli these days but ESR really impressed me.

Whatever the managerial situation holds I think our future will be bright if we can keep hold of these young players and supplement them with some more Partey, Gabriel level signings.

Yeah I think the plan has to be targeting the age groups 20-24. Players who are good now but have the aim to go above and beyond. Someone even using the club as a stepping stone.

 

[14Henry]

Coming from a boy who spent Christmas day on here arguing with people.

I dont work at tescos but if I did I would still be earning more than you and your benefits.

I'm not on benefits and never have. As I said. I was fortunate or unfortunate in a way to be able to basically work part time if you would call it that while earning a full time wage from property rentals.

Christmas day is just another day for me. I couldn't go to the pub. I've watched home alone too many times. And you can hardly talk. Youre on here everyday.

Anyway. Il leave it at that.