Granit Xhaka: Swiss Army Knife or Blunt Tool?

[AfcDaniel20]

Xhaka actually made a great long pass to Cedric which led to the 3:0.

 

[Ash10]

You're very forceful in your opinions and I didn't quote you until you targeted me. You call your opinions facts but they're just opinions. Every player here has had an anti post of sorts and as a group, many are quick to retract and admit when we're wrong and give praise when it's due. We scored ten minutes after Partey went off and as I said in my original opinion post, that was down to the FB's, youth and forwards. It had little to nothing to due with Xhaka directly. I think Xhaka is crap but I've been quite respectful so far. Partey had a very good game and was the better of the two. Keep up the bullying disguised as knowledge. It won't work and nobody asked you to try and convert the anti Xhaka opiniated posters. Everyone is allowed an opinion. You're being ridiculed by some because you're OTT on this player. I've actually ignored a lot of your posts, even the good ones as you're such hard work. Sweet dreams Manberg.

You're wasting your time. In his mind he is a savant & acts like it’s his responsibility to enlighten us illiterate masses about football whilst also thinking Xhaka has never had a bad game.

Make what you will of that

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Xhaka is a special case. There’s a strong anti Xhaka agenda on both AM and social media that hasn’t dissipated in a long time. This agenda has provided fuel to the personal insults that led to the shameful incident we saw last year which resulted in him losing the captaincy. It is an institutional problem. Xhaka got blamed for every game we didn’t win despite him playing well. People then place him under a microscope for every little mistake he does, and ignore the mistakes of their favourites. Like I said, an institutional problem amongst the Arsenal fan base that requires a big effort from the likes of myself to dispel.

Xhaka is certainly special for all the wrong reasons and feel free to fool yourself into believing AM has any influence on public football fan opinion. Xhaka has had less "hate" than Raheem Sterling and a lot of black players. The boos he got were nothing compared to stadiums of fans making monkey noises and throwing things. He cracked because he lacks the fortitude of Sterling and others. That's no slight on him. He's just more sensitive. I've seen this argument brought up before when someone won't bend to your idea of Xhaka. This idea that he's bullied more than anyone else and that all criticism, however mild, is undeserved. This idea that you are campaigning for a form of social justice. Defend him on FB, Insta and Twitter if you feel that strongly and fair play to you if you do. But don't equate my opinion on a private forum as being behind his online problems. I've spoken about his performances as a player and never about him as a person. I dont rate him and honestly never have. What you are doing is disingenuous and embarrassing. You can't convince me of his playing ability so you come up with this dross. You will never dispel my opinion of Xhaka this way. That will come when his performances are of a standard I rate but this "institutional problem" will remain for as long as there are players here or at any club that some fans don't rate. Nice try but it's not working.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

You're wasting your time. In his mind he is a savant & acts like it’s his responsibility to enlighten us illiterate masses about football whilst also thinking Xhaka has never had a bad game.

Make what you will of that

He's released my inner troll. I'll get bored eventually

 

[Jack_the_boy]

Xhaka is certainly special for all the wrong reasons and feel free to fool yourself into believing AM has any influence on public football fan opinion. Xhaka has had less "hate" than Raheem Sterling and a lot of black players. The boos he got were nothing compared to stadiums of fans making monkey noises and throwing things. He cracked because he lacks the fortitude of Sterling and others. That's no slight on him. He's just more sensitive. I've seen this argument brought up before when someone won't bend to your idea of Xhaka. This idea that he's bullied more than anyone else and that all criticism, however mild, is undeserved. This idea that you are campaigning for a form of social justice. Defend him on FB, Insta and Twitter if you feel that strongly and fair play to you if you do. But don't equate my opinion on a private forum as being behind his online problems. I've spoken about his performances as a player and never about him as a person. I dont rate him and honestly never have. What you are doing is disingenuous and embarrassing. You can't convince me of his playing ability so you come up with this dross. You will never dispel my opinion of Xhaka this way. That will come when his performances are of a standard I rate but this "institutional problem" will remain for as long as there are players here or at any club that some fans don't rate. Nice try but it's not working.

Is this really a defence? Xhaka cannot complain because someone else supposedly had it worse? That argument is nothing but making an excuse for personal and psychological abuse that has festered out of the agenda. It’s not something I want to argue either. Comparing abuse comes across as horrible and ill mannered to me. It’s all horrible.

This agenda is what causes you and many others not to rate him. Every manager he had has highly rated him. His country rates him to make him their captain. His peers rate him. Every qualified person with the football knowledge required rates him. All except for fans blinded by the agenda.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Is this really a defence? Xhaka cannot complain because someone else supposedly had it worse? That argument is nothing but making an excuse for personal and psychological abuse that has festered out of the agenda. It’s not something I want to argue either. Comparing abuse comes across as horrible and ill mannered to me. It’s all horrible.

This agenda is what causes you and many others not to rate him. Every manager he had has highly rated him. His country rates him to make him their captain. His peers rate him. Every qualified person with the football knowledge required rates him. All except for fans blinded by the agenda.

You don't understand anything do you? You're introducing new arguments to cover yourself and trying to take a moral high ground. Strawmanning Manberg. It didnt work in any of your previous lives. It's not working now. I dont rate him and nothing you post will change that. Bye.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

You don't understand anything do you? You're introducing new arguments to cover yourself and trying to take a moral high ground. Strawmanning Manberg. It didnt work in any of your previous lives. It's not working now. I dont rate him and nothing you post will change that. Bye.

I’m not manberg. Strawmanning is when you make statements without having any arguments. I’ve used loads of arguments. I’ve been met with strawmanning statements. “ I don’t rate him”, “not good enough” etc, as well as complete fabrications such as “only passes backwards” or “too error prone” etc. Nothing that’s backed by statistical fact.

Bringing up expert opinion from peers and an argument centred around the fact that he’s been trusted so much by all his managers, that’s expert testimony stuff that gets used in court.


Strawmanning.... pfft.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

Xhaka is OK.

 

[Legend14]

Xhaka had a very good game today. Credit where credit is due. He has played his best football at Arsenal since the red card. Not sure if he can keep this up, but it definitely benefits the team. I’m not going to complain about him as I had been the past 3 years. Maybe he is a new person.

 

[Macho]

He’s been alright tbh but the fixtures have been kind.

He was never as bad as people made out but we’ve also seen this kind of form before after a red card or a mistake, you just know there’s another down the line. Just have to take it game by game with Xhaka.

Comfortably our 2nd best all round midfielder - by default before people start crying - not saying he’s good. Midtable.

 

[Gooner416]

I thought he took more risks and played some dangerous forward balls. He did misplace a few easy ones for Tierney, but all in all this is what I expect from this player. Solid performance.

 

[Ash10]

He’s been alright tbh but the fixtures have been kind.

He was never as bad as people made out but we’ve also seen this kind of form before after a red card or a mistake, you just know there’s another down the line. Just have to take it game by game with Xhaka.

Comfortably our 2nd best all round midfielder - by default before people start crying - not saying he’s good. Midtable.

In the same post you say he was never as bad as people made out while also saying he's not good & mid-table quality

Playing it safe with both sides

 

[Oxeki]

@Macho right now

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

I’m not manberg. Strawmanning is when you make statements without having any arguments. I’ve used loads of arguments. I’ve been met with strawmanning statements. “ I don’t rate him”, “not good enough” etc, as well as complete fabrications such as “only passes backwards” or “too error prone” etc. Nothing that’s backed by statistical fact.

Bringing up expert opinion from peers and an argument centred around the fact that he’s been trusted so much by all his managers, that’s expert testimony stuff that gets used in court.


Strawmanning.... pfft.

Strawmanning is basically twisting another persons argument in to something different arguing that point and winning-because they never made the argument in the first place. I talked specifically about Xhaka's playing attributes and contribution and you didn't like what I said. You don't want me to express an opinion that's different to yours re Xhaka. I suppose what I actually saw on the pitch doesn't count either. The total loss of forward momentum from centre midfield when Partey went off must be my imagination. I must go to Specsavers like you told someone else to. I've said that his (and Pepe's) stats are good but that their contribution during a match is somewhat different. Someone posted a quote by Xavi that said a lot of players make a contribution that isn't statistically quantifiable. Wenger praised what Özil could contribute with his stats in the gutter. But I suppose those two experts and their opinions don't count in your world. We're not in a court room. There’s no burden of proof upon me but my eyewitness account of Xhaka's basic level will satisfy most people especially when I present video evidence and call Henry as my star witness. Keep going with this. Every post you respond to makes me more convinced that I'm right.
A decent VPN doesn't change the fact that you are Manberg. Not close and no cigar for you.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

Strawmanning is basically twisting another persons argument in to something different arguing that point and winning-because they never made the argument in the first place. I talked specifically about Xhaka's playing attributes and contribution and you didn't like what I said. You don't want me to express an opinion that's different to yours re Xhaka. I suppose what I actually saw on the pitch doesn't count either. The total loss of forward momentum from centre midfield when Partey went off must be my imagination. I must go to Specsavers like you told someone else to. I've said that his (and Pepe's) stats are good but that their contribution during a match is somewhat different. Someone posted a quote by Xavi that said a lot of players make a contribution that isn't statistically quantifiable. Wenger praised what Özil could contribute with his stats in the gutter. But I suppose those two experts and their opinions don't count in your world. We're not in a court room. There’s no burden of proof upon me but my eyewitness account of Xhaka's basic level will satisfy most people especially when I present video evidence and call Henry as my star witness. Keep going with this. Every post you respond to makes me more convinced that I'm right.
A decent VPN doesn't change the fact that you are Manberg. Not close and no cigar for you.

I glossed over those things you said because I’ve heard it all before, argued against such comments many of times over, and would simply be repeating myself if I was to bother. There’s no politeful way for me to say that I completely disagree with your opinion.

I’m seeing Xhaka do so many good things that I simply think many of you are choosing not to see, or haven’t seen. The small details in his game, leadership and contribution to the team. Things that perhaps do take a higher iq to see.

I don’t want to suck Xhaka off, I’m just arguing against what I believe to be a widely held negative bias (or agenda) against him that is based on misguided opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

The small details in his game, leadership and contribution to the team. Things that perhaps do take a higher iq to see.

Let’s go for that! Case closed! I’m converted. Xhaka is a great midfielder and we are lucky to have him and our high IQ posters!

 

[Macho]

In the same post you say he was never as bad as people made out while also saying he's not good & mid-table quality

Playing it safe with both sides

Mid table doesn’t mean bad does it?
You guys act like Xhaka is the worst midfielder in the season prem when he’s not.

I don’t think every Arsenal player is God or crap like some of you - some are genuinely in between.

You can check Mikel’s thread to see if I’m a fence sitter. You, @Oxeki and the usual haters just congregating in here cause Auba scored and you can’t get on his case this week.

 

[Oxeki]

Mid table doesn’t mean bad does it?
You guys act like Xhaka is the worst midfielder in the season prem when he’s not.

I don’t think every Arsenal player is God or crap like some of you - some are genuinely in between.

You can check Mikel’s thread to see if I’m a fence sitter. You, @Oxeki and the usual haters just congregating in here cause Auba scored and you can’t get on his case this week.

I'm not an Auba hater. I just point that he's detrimental to our play.

On Xhaka, I come here to debunk guys like jacktheboy (the manbergs) and the other Xhaka stans that herald his average performance as top class.

Anyway, you always seem to sit on the fence. Just something I've noticed.

 

[Macho]

Anyway, you always seem to sit on the fence. Just something I've noticed.

You tend to sit in threads of the highest paid player and whinge, just something I’ve noticed.

Xhaka ideally gets upgraded, but until he does when he plays well, I’ll say it - when he plays bad I’ll say it. Ultimately, your manager picks him come rain or shine so you can moan all you like.

When you guys were calling Lacazette fat and useless and Auba wasn’t scoring, who was it that was telling you guys you didn’t know what you were talking about? and it was the managers fault?

 

[Atlas]

Meh. When the team is playing well you won’t notice Granit Xavi being ****. Wait till we get close to the top 4 he will revert to being a Stoke City level player. Get rid of him while his stock is still high and we can get a fee.