What really happened in the summer of Cech?

[GoonerJay24]

It doesn't matter how strong and cohesive you are. If you stand still you don't move forwards.

We look today a strong and cohesive team. But you know what we need? 3-4 top players to come in and lift the level again. And shake things up. Why? Because if not players get bored, and complacent. And that isn't to win the league, that is to maintain 2nd/3rd/4th.

If we had the same squad as we have now next season we would have a huge fight for top 4. Some people might think I'm being negative but it's true.

Moving forwards in football isn't exclusive to signing players. There are factors other than recruitment.

Of course bringing a couple of players in who'll fit the main tactics is important; but they have to be suitable players.

We'll see, I don't think it's a matter of squad quality but moreso towards mentality given how the way our seasons ended. You also need to think tactically, not just transfer wise. We concede too many goals and I don't think thats a personnel issue. It's tactics

 

[14Henry]

Moving forwards in football isn't exclusive to signing players. There are factors other than recruitment.

Of course bringing a couple of players in who'll fit the main tactics is important; but they have to be suitable players.

We'll see, I don't think it's a matter of squad quality but moreso towards mentality given how the way our seasons ended. You also need to think tactically, not just transfer wise. We concede too many goals and I don't think thats a personnel issue. It's tactics

Yeah it's a combination of things. It isn't just black and white spend 300m, guarantee something.

But I look at that City team and say. Player for player they are better.

I think Liverpool, United, Chelsea, maybe Newcastle and us will all have similar squads next season.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

The whole structure was a mess looking back. Wenger was doing too much on his own, the structure we have in place now even if there are valid criticisms is a lot easier on the manager and its the way it should be. The manager should be the decision maker but he should be ultimately left to coach and not worrying about financial implications. KSE weren't full owners either and very hands off with the whole thing.

 

[GoonerJay24]

[/QUOTE]

Yeah it's a combination of things. It isn't just black and white spend 300m, guarantee something.

But I look at that City team and say. Player for player they are better.

I think Liverpool, United, Chelsea, maybe Newcastle and us will all have similar squads next season.

But then we must improve some players too. For example this season I hoped Arteta would coach Jesus to get into better positions and become a goalscoring striker.

 

[14Henry]

But then we must improve some players too. For example this season I hoped Arteta would coach Jesus to get into better positions and become a goalscoring striker.

I think the positions Jesus has taken up aren't the problem. He just isn't a clinical finisher and that's probably one of the hardest traits to coach. Esepcially at 25-26. Some players have it some don't. And Jesus doesn't have it in him to be a 25 goal a PL season striker. But I don't think anyone ever thought he would do that. Hence why we need another option.

 

[GoonerJay24]

But then we must improve some players too. For example this season I hoped Arteta would coach Jesus to get into better positions and become a goalscoring striker.

I think the positions Jesus has taken up aren't the problem. He just isn't a clinical finisher and that's probably one of the hardest traits to coach. Esepcially at 25-26. Some players have it some don't. And Jesus doesn't have it in him to be a 25 goal a PL season striker. But I don't think anyone ever thought he would do that. Hence why we need another option.
[/QUOTE]

I think it varies. Sometimes he really facilitates our playing style with his positioning and rotational movement. But there have definitely been occasions where a striker is needed in the box, especially recently. You know alot of players add to their game at the mid 20s age. Look how Mourinho made Lampard a goalscoring midfielder at 27.

Either way if Jesus continues playing that false nine position we need more output from the wide players, especially Saka in recent games hasn't been productive. Probably a taller target striker is needed to go direct sometimes. But I don't know who?

 

[Macho]

Trudging old ground to keep the heat off the current situation no?

Think it’s pretty obvious to everybody that KSE with only part ownership at the time we’re unwilling to help, why is the no money thing so hard to understand?

 

[GoonerJay24]

Trudging old ground to keep the heat off the current situation no?

Think it’s pretty obvious to everybody that KSE with only part ownership at the time we’re unwilling to help, why is the no money thing so hard to understand?

No, it wasn't KSE or Gazidis. This was Wenger believing in his squad. One of his strengths and Weaknesses as coach.

I strongly believe though he would have signed an outfield player if he really thought their cost was worth the extent they may disrupt cohesion.

People talk about how hard it is integrating into Peps main tactic. From what I remember, Wengers tactic was a lot more complex and faster passing interplay.

 

[14Henry]

I think the positions Jesus has taken up aren't the problem. He just isn't a clinical finisher and that's probably one of the hardest traits to coach. Esepcially at 25-26. Some players have it some don't. And Jesus doesn't have it in him to be a 25 goal a PL season striker. But I don't think anyone ever thought he would do that. Hence why we need another option.

I think it varies. Sometimes he really facilitates our playing style with his positioning and rotational movement. But there have definitely been occasions where a striker is needed in the box, especially recently. You know alot of players add to their game at the mid 20s age. Look how Mourinho made Lampard a goalscoring midfielder at 27.

Either way if Jesus continues playing that false nine position we need more output from the wide players, especially Saka in recent games hasn't been productive. Probably a taller target striker is needed to go direct sometimes. But I don't know who?
[/QUOTE]
Lampard was an excellent striker of the ball esepcially around the box. He also took pens and a few free kicks. Which made his goal tallies better. I don't think it improved with Mourinho. Maybe just that his ability to make those late runs had never been needed. Or utilised.

I see Jesus snatching at shots that aren't even on. Yesterday for example there was one around the edge of the box it wasn't even a shooting chance but he had it in his mind he would shoot. Instead of passing or trying something else.

He isn't clinical. And I don't think that can be taught at 26. Movement and better positioning can be taught but I think his problem is accuracy and being clinical. And that won't come with age.

 

[14Henry]

No, it wasn't KSE or Gazidis. This was Wenger believing in his squad. One of his strengths and Weaknesses as coach.

I strongly believe though he would have signed an outfield player if he really thought their cost was worth the extent they may disrupt cohesion.

People talk about how hard it is integrating into Peps main tactic. From what I remember, Wengers tactic was a lot more complex and faster passing interplay.

Why did he have to have everything so cohesive. Could signing a few players who would ruffle a few feathers have been that detrimental. Or could it have had the opposite impact.

We know our whole image and team was too nice back then. There was a lack of proper leadership. All friends and sure if we got beat 6-0 by Chelsea well sure....we are all friends.

We needed characters and that we didn't get.

 

[Macho]

No, it wasn't KSE or Gazidis. This was Wenger believing in his squad. One of his strengths and Weaknesses as coach.

No. The Highbury years showed that Wenger was more than happy to spend and had no problems ruthlessly improving his squad ushering out numerous big names.

I state a fact in that KSE not 100% owning the club we’re not willing to spend and you reply with something else.

I think shortly after this summer the spending resumed anyways, but I hate this thread it’s rubbish, rehashed old arguments and has crap timing.

 

[say yes]

Gross negligence.

 

[Blankety Blank]

I'm sure we could've signed more but the purse strings were certainly not as loose then as Nacho & others point out KSE still had part ownership.

Shame as all the other big clubs were in transition. Pep & Klopp hadn't become a thing & it was far easier to win the league.

It was a great opportunity to push on & have a serious crack at the title.

I would say it was part ownership. But also maybe Arsène being too much of a stubborn purist who wasn't big on buying unless technical ball players.

 

[A_G]

The summer of 2015 could actually have been avoided completely without Giles Grimandi. He told Wenger to sign Giroud instead of Auba in 2012 then recommended not signing Kante a year later.

 

[GoonerJay24]

No. The Highbury years showed that Wenger was more than happy to spend and had no problems ruthlessly improving his squad ushering out numerous big names.

I state a fact in that KSE not 100% owning the club we’re not willing to spend and you reply with something else.

I think shortly after this summer the spending resumed anyways, but I hate this thread it’s rubbish, rehashed old arguments and has crap timing.

Wenger could be very ruthless. But he rarely signed 'big names'. In fact that was the whole point of his philosophy.


It's also a fact that Wenger was in charge of football operations. The likes of Gazidis and Hill-Wood came out on several occasions saying the money is there. Wenger convinced them we only need players that are either world class or can seamlessly fit the cohesion.


Yes, the next season Wenger realised that Wilshere could not be relied upon. With Arteta retiring we needed someone good defensively that could build up from deep, hence the Xhaka signing. We also signed Perez, Mustafi and Holding that summer, but these weren't the characters for Wengers system. Especially Mustafi; who was more use to autocratic management at Valencia.

 

[Tnegs]

Trudging old ground to keep the heat off the current situation no?

Think it’s pretty obvious to everybody that KSE with only part ownership at the time we’re unwilling to help, why is the no money thing so hard to understand?

It’s hard to understand because it isn’t true. A year later we spent close to 100m on Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez. Why couldn’t we have done that in 2015?

 

[Blankety Blank]

Yeah it's a combination of things. It isn't just black and white spend 300m, guarantee something.

But I look at that City team and say. Player for player they are better.

I think Liverpool, United, Chelsea, maybe Newcastle and us will all have similar squads next season.

That's the thing we could spend 300m + and our squad still wouldn't be as good as City. They also have probably the best manager in World football. It's an absolute deadly combination.

When Arsène arrived if you beat Man U & Liverpool you likely win the league.

Now you have to beat those 2 big clubs as we did this year's & the freaks that are Peps City.

You also have Chelsea & Newcastle who spend massively.

Since the mega money arrived with abramovich we haven't won a title as it just became so much harder.

Top 4 became a big achievement.

 

[Tnegs]

That's the thing we could spend 300m + and our squad still wouldn't be as good as City. They also have probably the best manager in World football. It's an absolute deadly combination.

When Arsène arrived if you beat Man U & Liverpool you likely win the league.

Now you have to beat those 2 big clubs as we did this year's & the freaks that are Peps City.

You also have Chelsea & Newcastle who spend massively.

Since the mega money arrived with abramovich we haven't won a title as it just became so much harder.

Top 4 became a big achievement.

Liverpool was chasing the quad last season and City are chasing the treble this season. Between them they have made 4 of the last 5 CL finals.

BuT tHE leAgUE dEFinITelY isNT tOugHer.

 

[14Henry]

That's the thing we could spend 300m + and our squad still wouldn't be as good as City. They also have probably the best manager in World football. It's an absolute deadly combination.

When Arsène arrived if you beat Man U & Liverpool you likely win the league.

Now you have to beat those 2 big clubs as we did this year's & the freaks that are Peps City.

You also have Chelsea & Newcastle who spend massively.

Since the mega money arrived with abramovich we haven't won a title as it just became so much harder.

Top 4 became a big achievement.

Top 4 is only an achievement if you use the money and fame for top 4 to kick on and make the next step. Which is either winning the league or the CL.

Nobody would consider Klopp a success at Liverpool if you took the league and the CL away. Klopp used CL participation to bolster his squad.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Top 4 is only an achievement if you use the money and fame for top 4 to kick on and make the next step. Which is either winning the league or the CL.

Nobody would consider Klopp a success at Liverpool if you took the league and the CL away. Klopp used CL participation to bolster his squad.

It depends what the level of competition is though.

Right now it's simply obscene.

Sure you need to win, but let's be honest if it wasn't for Peps Freak show at City things would be a lot different. Liverpool would have 3 prem league titles.

Arteta won an fa cup in his 1st half season which bought him time to rebuild a downward spiralling squad. We have been improving for over 2 years now.

This season we finished 2nd to by far the best side in the world.

Next season if we don't suffer a hangover, hopefully we go again.

The level is so high now with City it's just not normal.

There can only be 1 prem winner.

We haven't won the league for almost 20 years.

We have only reached 1champions league final in our history.

Smaller club but Poch never won a bean at Sp**s & is considered a success.