The Wish List

[Tir Na Nog]

@Tir: Who the hell are Serge Auriero and Lic Remy?

WTF???? I've no idea how that happened. :shock:

 

[Rain Dance]

Tir : Except for Benzema, everyone else is a young player. I'd say that's a pretty low standard realistic choices.... No marquee signing except for Draxler


but I gotta admire your guts for saying Keisuke Honda, Marek Hamsik, El Sharaawy, and Yoann Gourcuff as not good enough (I don't believe you don't know them)

 

[Penn_]

Scz
Aurier Mert Kos Gibbs
Martinez Ramsey
Özil
Wilshere Walcott El Shaarawy

 

[entropy13]

Tir : Except for Benzema, everyone else is a young player. I'd say that's a pretty low standard realistic choices.... No marquee signing except for Draxler


but I gotta admire your guts for saying Keisuke Honda, Marek Hamsik, El Sharaawy, and Yoann Gourcuff as not good enough (I don't believe you don't know them)

With regards to Yoann Gourcuff though...the first topic here in this section of the forum with his name as the title most probably predates my registration date (May 2006). He's being linked to Arsenal ever since his last season with Rennes.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Cesc has been basically a final third player for the last number of years. And now we're talking about him holding midfield behind Ramsey........

Who said anything about holding midfield behind Ramsey? Outlaw suggested him as a DLP, I've done no such thing.

Also, you're an admirer of Arteta in the holding role, for reasons unknown.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Tir : Except for Benzema, everyone else is a young player. I'd say that's a pretty low standard realistic choices.... No marquee signing except for Draxler


but I gotta admire your guts for saying Keisuke Honda, Marek Hamsik, El Sharaawy, and Yoann Gourcuff as not good enough (I don't believe you don't know them)

Honda..... meh, no place for him here. Which is the same reason as Hamsik and Gourcuff in my opinion.

El Sharaawy..... he hasn't progressed at all in the last 2 seasons for me.

Also when I say realistic, it's more to do what I expect would be likely to happen if we were genuinely interested..... who knows though I didn't expect Özil last year.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

People are deluding themselves that Cesc is 1) coming back

Name me one poster who thinks he is definitely coming back? Just one?

and 2) is capable of playing a role which he hasn't played since he was like 15 at Barcelona.

Since he was like 15? He played a CM role here in 07/08 in a 2 man midfield. He wasn't 15.

Even when he was here at just broke into the team it was always Gilberto/Flamini holding allowing him to roam forward... you know, what he's best at doing.

If only we still had Flamini to hold for him...

He's never been a holding player for Arsenal,

No ****, Sherlock

he's rarely even had defensive responsibility at Arsenal or Barcelona.

He has. Just because he wasn't purely defensive in our midfield pre his move forward (to compensate for our inept attack, rather than because it suited his game), doesn't mean he had no defensive contribution. It's the biggest Fabregas myth.

At times he's been used as a false number 9 by club and country because they realise how much of his game is based on his end product.

ITT: Versatility is bad. How dare you be able to play multiple positions, this will now count against you. Spain played him alongside Silva as a pair of false 9s because Torres was poor and they had Alonso/Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta etc. who were less capable as false 9s.

There's no way in hell we sign one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet and play him so far out of position it's unreal, purely for nostalgic purposes. The same people moan about a lack of strength and defensive capabilities among our midfield, but yeah go sign a player who's defensive side of the game is pretty poor.

R-right. Proof that it's pure nostalgia? You won't be able to find any.

Again, very short memories in this forum. Fabregas wasn't always an attacking midfielder, we had the best midfield in the league with a central pairing of Flamini - Cesc, flanked by Hleb and Rosicky ffs. Had Cesc been 'poor defensively', this wouldn't have been possible. Yes, he's no Vieira in this regard, but not poor either.

You can also look at the examples of Gerrard and Arteta in this league, who have both made the move back in the last two years with no problems at all (although Arteta is now past it, but that's an age concern and not a positional concern per se)

 

[Tir Na Nog]

People are deluding themselves that Cesc is 1) coming back

Name me one poster who thinks he is definitely coming back? Just one?

and 2) is capable of playing a role which he hasn't played since he was like 15 at Barcelona.

Since he was like 15? He played a CM role here in 07/08 in a 2 man midfield. He wasn't 15.

Even when he was here at just broke into the team it was always Gilberto/Flamini holding allowing him to roam forward... you know, what he's best at doing.

If only we still had Flamini to hold for him...

He's never been a holding player for Arsenal,

No ****, Sherlock

he's rarely even had defensive responsibility at Arsenal or Barcelona.

He has. Just because he wasn't purely defensive in our midfield pre his move forward (to compensate for our inept attack, rather than because it suited his game), doesn't mean he had no defensive contribution. It's the biggest Fabregas myth.

At times he's been used as a false number 9 by club and country because they realise how much of his game is based on his end product.

ITT: Versatility is bad. How dare you be able to play multiple positions, this will now count against you. Spain played him alongside Silva as a pair of false 9s because Torres was poor and they had Alonso/Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta etc. who were less capable as false 9s.

There's no way in hell we sign one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet and play him so far out of position it's unreal, purely for nostalgic purposes. The same people moan about a lack of strength and defensive capabilities among our midfield, but yeah go sign a player who's defensive side of the game is pretty poor.

R-right. Proof that it's pure nostalgia? You won't be able to find any.

Again, very short memories in this forum. Fabregas wasn't always an attacking midfielder, we had the best midfield in the league with a central pairing of Flamini - Cesc, flanked by Hleb and Rosicky ffs. Had Cesc been 'poor defensively', this wouldn't have been possible. Yes, he's no Vieira in this regard, but not poor either.

You can also look at the examples of Gerrard and Arteta in this league, who have both made the move back in the last two years with no problems at all (although Arteta is now past it, but that's an age concern and not a positional concern per se)

1. Ok no one user said he was DEFINITELY coming back, but the fact is some think there's even the possibility of it happening this summer. Which is just beyond naive.

2. Aren't we talking about holding role. In 07-08 Flamini was defensive midfielder and he was more attack minded in a 4-4-2, we play a 4-2-3-1 with one box-to-box player and a holding midfielder. And Ramsey would definitely be the box-to-box player. CM and holding midfielder are nowhere near the same.

3. Flamini won't be a starter and Ramsey will.

4. I made that point because Wenger knows he's not a holding player.

5. He's had some but not much. Flamini even said himself not so long ago that Cesc "sometimes forgets to defend".

6. I was saying they played him as a false number 9 because he's an attacker, an attack minded player. :wink: That's why he of all people was chosen for that role because his best work is in and around the opposition area.

7. Look at the Cesc thread in the football forum.

8. Ok, he wasn't always an attacking midfielder,but he's always been mostly attack minded player. When Cesc broke into the team we would either play 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with the two centre midfielders partnering where one was the attack minded out of the two and the other just sat and held their position. As we progressed Cesc became more and more attack minded and due to his assisting and goalscoring ability our team was fixed to get Cesc closer to the oppositions penalty area, there's a reason for that believe it or not.

What you're suggesting is that we bring back Cesc, partner him with Ramsey after 5/6 years of playing as one of the most attack minded players for his respective teams and sit alongside a box-to-box player.

It's not like Arteta or Gerrard jumped immediately from attacking midfielder to the deepest lying player in the midfield. Gerrard hasn't played as an attacking midfielder since the 09-10 season and it's been a slow progression of him paired with partners until he's become the holding midfielder that he is today. Same with Arteta he was already just primarily a CM when he was at Everton and for his first year he was paired with Song until he eventually progressed into the DM role.

And no, I can imagine you suggesting the "Ramsey and Cesc can share the defensive responsibilities" nonsense, that's fantasy stuff....not for the way we play anyways, we need a player who sits there and is capable of performing a job and can let someone like Rambo go forward and support the attack. Fabregas is not that player, and neither is Ramsey in case you suggest the other way round.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

1. Ok no one user said he was DEFINITELY coming back, but the fact is some think there's even the possibility of it happening this summer. Which is just beyond naive.

ok so we're getting somewhere. This is not naive, it is no more naive than those who believed we were signing Özil. Will it happen? Who knows. Could it happen? Obviously. To hold any other position IS naive.

2. Aren't we talking about holding role. In 07-08 Flamini was defensive midfielder and he was more attack minded in a 4-4-2, we play a 4-2-3-1 with one box-to-box player and a holding midfielder. And Ramsey would definitely be the box-to-box player. CM and holding midfielder are nowhere near the same.

No we're not. We're talking primarily about squad depth, but also how a midfield containing two players who are perfectly capable of playing B2B might work behind Özil.

3. Flamini won't be a starter and Ramsey will.

ITT: Injuries don't happen, fatigue doesn't affect our players.

4. I made that point because Wenger knows he's not a holding player.

ITT: Wenger isn't a *****. Who knew?

5. He's had some but not much. Flamini even said himself not so long ago that Cesc "sometimes forgets to defend".

Flamini's opinion>>>>>reality.

6. I was saying they played him as a false number 9 because he's an attacker, an attack minded player. :wink: That's why he of all people was chosen for that role because his best work is in and around the opposition area.

Can you imagine Xavi playing as a false 9? what about Alonso Busquets?

For the amount of strength in depth that Spain squad showed, there wasn't a lot of options re: forwards, so Cesc and Silva were basically given a free role ahead of the AMs. It worked.

7. Look at the Cesc thread in the football forum.

Why?

8. Ok, he wasn't always an attacking midfielder,but he's always been mostly attack minded player. When Cesc broke into the team we would either play 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with the two centre midfielders partnering where one was the attack minded out of the two and the other just sat and held their position. As we progressed Cesc became more and more attack minded and due to his assisting and goalscoring ability our team was fixed to get Cesc closer to the oppositions penalty area, there's a reason for that believe it or not.

What you're suggesting is that we bring back Cesc, partner him with Ramsey after 5/6 years of playing as one of the most attack minded players for his respective teams and sit alongside a box-to-box player.

Arteta spent his entire career as an attack minded midfielder, as did Gerrard. Both have inferior long range passing and workrate to Fabregas, although Gerrard is about ten levels better than Arteta on current form.

It's not like Arteta or Gerrard jumped immediately from attacking midfielder to the deepest lying player in the midfield. Gerrard hasn't played as an attacking midfielder since the 09-10 season and it's been a slow progression of him paired with partners until he's become the holding midfielder that he is today. Same with Arteta he was already just primarily a CM when he was at Everton and for his first year he was paired with Song until he eventually progressed into the DM role.

This is entirely anecdotal and doesn't prove whether this transition can be made or not.

And no, I can imagine you suggesting the "Ramsey and Cesc can share the defensive responsibilities" nonsense, that's fantasy stuff....not for the way we play anyways, we need a player who sits there and is capable of performing a job and can let someone like Rambo go forward and support the attack. Fabregas is not that player, and neither is Ramsey in case you suggest the other way round.

Ramsey carried the entire defensive side of the midfield Ramsey-Arteta pairing for much of the season this season. If Ramsey can carry Arteta defensively, he can carry Cesc who has a much higher workrate and is basically superior in every attribute. Easily.

I'm not saying it is ideal, in an ideal world we sign Bender or as some have suggested Javi Martinez, but for the £25m being touted this is a no-brainer and I expect Wenger to leap on it. Ramsey and Özil have spent much of the season out and I expect much of the same every season.

I suspect the opposition to this transfer is because of those who still feel sad that he left us. I'd advise those who feel that way to get over it. Is it likely? Is it happening? Who cares, this is a thought experiment - hence 'Wish List'. If you want realistic transfer talk, do to the 'transfers that I think will happen on a completely arbitrary basis' thread. Thanks.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Ah..... hmmmm....

I'll cut straight to the end (don't worry I have read it all though).... it's an experiment which I believe wouldn't work... wish list or not. I just feel that we've a set system and players like Ramsey and Özil are set in their roles and what we need is a younger defensive midfielder to compliment them and Cesc isn't that.

And I'm done with talking about Cesc in regards to potentially coming back for the time being.

 

[Wouterus]

If I could pick one player that is not completely unrealistic, it would probably be Reus. I was at the Dortmund-Mainz game a couple of weeks ago and he was just so many levels above anyone else on the pitch. Unreal movement, vision and technique.

 

[Vibra]

If I could pick one player that is not completely unrealistic, it would probably be Reus. I was at the Dortmund-Mainz game a couple of weeks ago and he was just so many levels above anyone else on the pitch. Unreal movement, vision and technique.

Losing Gotze, Lewandowski and him within a year would be absolutely brutal for Dortmund so for their sake I hope he stays, but if he does become available we just can't let someone of his talent go to a rival PL team

 

[GOONER1991]

-------------Szczesny

Aurier - Mertesacker - Koscielny - Gibbs

-----------Ramsey - Martinez

Walcott--------Özil----------Cazorla

--------------Cavani

Squad: New GK, New CB, Jenkinson, Flamini, Arteta, Podolski, Giroud, Remy, Sanogo, Monreal, Wilshere

That team would be taken seriously, and it's frustrating as it's available to us. We just need to show the ambition to do it.

In:

Martinez - £35m
Cavani - £50m
Aurier - £4m
Remy - £10m
New GK - £3m
New CB - £8m

Spend = £110m

Out:

Sagna - Free
Vermaelen - £8m
Bendtner - Free
Park - Free

Paid = £8m

Net Spend = £102m

In my wildest dreams will we have a Net Spend of £102m, but it's fun to imagine. Shame, as it's not outside of our capabilities.

 

[Proof]

Javi Martinez, Marco Reus and Loic Remy.

- Szczesny -
- Sagna - Mertesacker - Koscileny - Gibbs
- Ramsey - Martinez - Özil -
- Walcott - Remy - Reus -

 

[Floating]

Javi Martinez, Karim Benzema, and a right-back.

 

[Iceman10]

If I could pick one player that is not completely unrealistic, it would probably be Reus. I was at the Dortmund-Mainz game a couple of weeks ago and he was just so many levels above anyone else on the pitch. Unreal movement, vision and technique.

Losing Gotze, Lewandowski and him within a year would be absolutely brutal for Dortmund so for their sake I hope he stays, but if he does become available we just can't let someone of his talent go to a rival PL team

Unfortunately for Dortmund until he signs a new contract the release clause in his existing one stands this summer [1]. This takes it out of Dortmund's hands to an extent, and one has to look at it from Reus' perspective, as well as Dortmund's, in seeing Gotze and Lewandowsky leave (as well as Kagawa, and Sahin before returning after not doing so well at RM).

[1] <a class="postlink" href="http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11899/9021767/borussia-dortmund-attacker-marco-reus-does-have-release-clause-in-his-contract" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... s-contract</a>

 

[truth_hurts]

Rumors say Barcelona is ready to sell Sanchez. BUYYYYY!!!!!!




oh it said Cesc and Song(ugh) are also for sale

Sanchez and Cesc would win us the league. Attack is the ebst form of defence. honestly we must bid for Sanchez as him plus theo and ne of Santi/podolski/Ox could be magic.

I'd even be tempted to give Özil a floating free role from the right if Cesc joined.

---------------Ramsey--------------Cesc-------------------------
------Theo--------------Özil--------------------Oxlade----------
-----------------------Sanchez----------------------------------

or

-------------Ramsey--------------DM----------------------------
-------Özil--------------Cesc-------------Sanchez--------------
------------------------Theo-----------------------------------

 

[truth_hurts]

Pirlo transformed from a no. 10 to one of the best DLP in modern history. Cesc could do the same but Martinez or Witsel would be better fits. I am just in love with the idea of Cesc returning.

 

[Anzac]

CF - Cavani
DM - Martinez
RB - Richards (HG & can cover as #4 CB)
WF - Vela (cheaper than Remy, genuine dribbler who can play across the front line & also increases our HG options)

 

[Rain Dance]

Pirlo transformed from a no. 10 to one of the best DLP in modern history. Cesc could do the same but Martinez or Witsel would be better fits. I am just in love with the idea of Cesc returning.

Pirlo plays with 2 other DM/Defensive minded CM though....