_scorpion_
Established Member
dos1986 said:
The truth hurts but i admire people that face it.
We are not winning the league this season. To win the league you need to 'intend' on it first.
Our intentions are for 4th spot again.
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Fredrik Ljungberg (Out)
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The truth hurts but i admire people that face it.
We are not winning the league this season. To win the league you need to 'intend' on it first.
Our intentions are for 4th spot again.
awooga83
Established Member
_scorpion_ said:
I can see why the side is not what he is used to but what does it matter, things change in life always he is older and is certainly not the player we were used to but thats life you don't stop because of that.
As for Freddie being disappointed I can understand that but I support Arsenal my view on players is always based on how they perform and whats best in my opinion for them and I will justify my views. If you know anything about fans you will understand this, he has been poor for us the last 2 seasons what does he want the fans to say it doesn't matter, your hurting the team but play anyway.
It may be the truth but why didn't he say it last season or mention it then why now when he has left, why not say it before he left during preseason , what is his motivation for not saying it then but saying it now. I don't for one minute believe Freddie is a fan of Arsenal so his only motivation for saying it now is to show us in a bad light, which is really poor on his part in my view.
cescthebest
Active Member
dos1986 said:
Yeah right, when we brought in Henry, Pires, Vieira did you think we were capable of wining the title then? i dont think so.
This is a new Arsenal team, we might have less quality than the unbeaten team but i dont think the gulf of class is too big, in footballing terms we are almost close, in experience we are far apart. Last season we dominated 90% of the matches we played in, i dont think a team with poor qualities can do that.
I am not saying we will be champions but i expect a very different season from the last two, the quality in the team is undeniable but in terms of experience and depth we are a bit thin.
dos1986
Established Member
cescthebest said:
What do you expect from next season?
evoh_1
Established Member
_scorpion_ said:
so to win the league we have to go out and spend 25mil a season on player transfer fees just as everyone else seems to be doing that? we have been doing what we have for the last decade on a shoestring and still being more then slightly successful in the league. put faith in the idea that 3/5 players Arsène brings in to the squad will be good enough for OUR system to give us a chance at something in the league.
i hope some ppl will be surprised by how we do, freddie costs too much for the quality of player that he is now, he was a great player but never the star attraction he should have moved on and kept shut up.
if we sort out our form against the ****e teams we will be fine this season.
Christofaux
Active Member
we beat mancs wihtout henry and drew with chelsea and almost beat them with our reserves squad. I think people are just going to miss the *but we would bet better if Henry wasnt injured* excuse.
kel varnsen
Established Member
apparantly freddie is a top bloke. a mate of mine bumped into him at an airport a few years ago and said he seemed like a great guy. really down to earth and friendly. during their stay in trondheim for the cl game against rbk, a friend of mine who works for one of the local papers in trondheim pretty much confirmed that notion.
it was time to leave, but no need to rip into him. he was a good player and had some terrific seasons here. i wish him good luck at west ham.
it was time to leave, but no need to rip into him. he was a good player and had some terrific seasons here. i wish him good luck at west ham.
kel varnsen
Established Member
evoh_1 said:
...and sorting out or form against the '****e teams' is done in no time? of course, it would be worse if we struggled against the better teams, but i don't think it's just a question of mentallity and underestimating the other teams. if it were, we would surely have improved our performance against these so called **** team during the last season. we didn't.
to comment on your first paragraph, i don't think we need to spend tons of money to challenge. that's what is so frustrating. i think we have a terrific foundation and lots of potential. imo, we just need a little bit added depth and a few new players offering us a bit different skillset from what we already have. for instance, bring in a runner up front, a back up winger and a central defender and i think we'd have a brilliant squad. maybe even good enough to win the premiership...
DC Gunner
Established Member
And making the CL is important for repaying the loan for the Stadium._scorpion_ said:
What I don't get is the expectation of some people; Play for us and don't say a word if you really care, be a professional; The player leaves while saying things, people say, if you really cared why did not a word while still with us, which one is it now !? or is it dependent upon which player some dislike more, or is it dependent on some fans refusing to admit the existence of such issues in the first place, they actually move the goal post whenever it suits them to avoid facing those facts.
_scorpion_
Established Member
evoh_1 said:
It's got nothing to do with spending 25 million pounds on players....you miss the point.
It's got eveything to do with making the 25 million pound signing IF THE PLAYER IS WHAT THE TEAM NEEDS instead of opting for the cheaper option but getting 60 or 70% of what we need.
One decent example of this would have to be the Adebayor vs Berbatov debate.
Put simply, we don't show ambition when it comes for really going for a player we need. It has nothing to do with spending vast amounts of money every summer to appease supporters.
During our unbeaten run you were hard pressed to find any player that could break into our 11 in the world.
Right now - that is simply not the case.
That's the difference that Freddie and others before him acknowledge.
The real sad part is how supporters feel like this is a snipe from a Freddie (just because the papers say0 when indeed it is nothing more than the truth.
scruzgooner
Well-Known Member
i surely do tire of people referring to the invincibles as though they're the ONLY model team for mr. wenger to assemble, and no other formulation can succeed.
the undefeated team did what no other team in over 100 years of english football could do, we all know that. why in hell would you hold any other arsenal team against them as a measure, and try to be satisfied? any team is going to fail by that comparison; barcelona could be **** hot this year, for example, and i doubt they are going to go through their league unbeaten. mancs has never done it, nor chelski, nor for all the money they spend will they this coming year. so why do people here keep holding up the invincibles as though we have to build a team to achieve the same, or we suck?
scorpion, how about in 2001 or 2002, would there have been anyone in the world we could have put in our first eleven that weren't there? or in 1999, when the groundwork for that team was first being laid? it took five years for that team to develop into something special, let alone something unbeatable. and once mancs showed the league the way (kick us off the park, and park the bus in front of goal), we've not won much, even with the remaining invincibles playing the same way. remember all the calls for a plan B once the streak of 49 was broken? and even before?
so now all bar jens, gilberto, and kolo are gone, and they will be gone in descending order (based on age, anyway). but we've a new crop of acolytes for mr. wenger's famed footie, and they're developing nicely. even amidst the horrorshow of "transitional years" we've made fourth, and very nearly third last year. we could add a winger, and a defender, and i would not complain. i am somewhat bummed we missed on ribery, and even a bit on malouda...but pires was picked from nowhere, as was ljungberg, so trust in mr. wenger and his network.
this year might not be the finished article, but we've got a damned good team of footballers, who have developed along the past year and gotten to know one another and one another's style across that time. how about giving them the break i am sure all arsenal supporters *would* have given to what became the invincibles, had they known three or five years in advance what would happen.
freddie can take his acknowledgement of the difference right to west ham and be paid his £60K/week, good for him. what he says about the past is just that, the past...and, if mr. wenger has his way, the past is just going to be prologue, and this group of players, plus whoever else he adds, is going to shine...in a way they couldn't with an aging freddie ljungberg dragging them down.
the undefeated team did what no other team in over 100 years of english football could do, we all know that. why in hell would you hold any other arsenal team against them as a measure, and try to be satisfied? any team is going to fail by that comparison; barcelona could be **** hot this year, for example, and i doubt they are going to go through their league unbeaten. mancs has never done it, nor chelski, nor for all the money they spend will they this coming year. so why do people here keep holding up the invincibles as though we have to build a team to achieve the same, or we suck?
scorpion, how about in 2001 or 2002, would there have been anyone in the world we could have put in our first eleven that weren't there? or in 1999, when the groundwork for that team was first being laid? it took five years for that team to develop into something special, let alone something unbeatable. and once mancs showed the league the way (kick us off the park, and park the bus in front of goal), we've not won much, even with the remaining invincibles playing the same way. remember all the calls for a plan B once the streak of 49 was broken? and even before?
so now all bar jens, gilberto, and kolo are gone, and they will be gone in descending order (based on age, anyway). but we've a new crop of acolytes for mr. wenger's famed footie, and they're developing nicely. even amidst the horrorshow of "transitional years" we've made fourth, and very nearly third last year. we could add a winger, and a defender, and i would not complain. i am somewhat bummed we missed on ribery, and even a bit on malouda...but pires was picked from nowhere, as was ljungberg, so trust in mr. wenger and his network.
this year might not be the finished article, but we've got a damned good team of footballers, who have developed along the past year and gotten to know one another and one another's style across that time. how about giving them the break i am sure all arsenal supporters *would* have given to what became the invincibles, had they known three or five years in advance what would happen.
freddie can take his acknowledgement of the difference right to west ham and be paid his £60K/week, good for him. what he says about the past is just that, the past...and, if mr. wenger has his way, the past is just going to be prologue, and this group of players, plus whoever else he adds, is going to shine...in a way they couldn't with an aging freddie ljungberg dragging them down.
cescthebest
Active Member
dos1986 said:
EPL= top 3 finish will be good, the title will be ............ lets forget about it for now
Carling Cup= Atleast being in the final.
FA cup= Semi Final. or more
CL= semi final. or hopefully winning it.
_scorpion_
Established Member
scruzgooner said:
That's all fine but unrealistsic.
Forget the invincibles it is a useless example - I was just illustrating how our standards have dropped in terms of quality. In 2001 , 2002 and even 2003 our first 11 quality was far and above this current sides quality.
The fact of the matter is supporters want improvement in the team and generally, since 2004 we have moved in the opposite direction. The players that were around in 2001, 2002 , 2003 and 2004 see this.
No amount of 'painting a bright picture about our youth' will cover that.
As a side, we are going backwards and the only reason we havent paid for it yet is because teams 5 and below have been plain shlt.
You can wax lyrical about first 11's of the past and present but you cannot tell me as a supporter that you havent seen a decline in our quality since 2004.
And Ljunberg (like some of the supporters in this forum) made that point and should not be slated for it.
Gunner Ossie
Active Member
My views on freddie are well known, so all i can say is "about bloody time too".
in summary , only two good seasons out of ten and those two where only down to the quallity of bergkamp's through ball. Freddie was a nice bloke but an average footballer, and its just hilarious that most of those who previously defended him tirelessly just couldnt get him out the door fast enough only 18 months later.
I thought class was supposed to be permanent?
in summary , only two good seasons out of ten and those two where only down to the quallity of bergkamp's through ball. Freddie was a nice bloke but an average footballer, and its just hilarious that most of those who previously defended him tirelessly just couldnt get him out the door fast enough only 18 months later.
I thought class was supposed to be permanent?
what i don't understand is surely when we were looking for an ian wright replacement nobody was calling for an 18 year old nicholas anelka or for an anelka replacement nobody in world football would have expected henry to develop the way he did.
similarly i don't think anybody could have predicted the great success pires and ljungberg would go on to achieve in the premiership when they were signed.
when they were signed they weren't "statement of intent" signings or signings that the team explicitly needed.
for sure when we signed pires to replace overmars it felt like a step backwards in quality. no way anybody could say that in hindsight.
while i completely agree that since 2004 we have regressed in quality there were some factors Arsène surely could not have had a short term contingency plan for. reyes, cambell, cole all for different reasons left the club. bergkamp also retired and i'm not quite sure how someone replaces a player like him - more difficult than replacing th14 in my mind. selling vieira without adequately replacing him might have been a mistake but then we wouldn't have seen the meteoric rise of cesc fabregas. it was probably made worse because we sold a decent player in edu at the same time.
combined with pressures of building and financing a new stadium it's not difficult to see where it all went downhill.
besides how can you improve a squad that went 49 games unbeaten, it's almost impossible. we could have tried for more success in europe but in terms of improving the squad itself it's hard to see how we could have done that without spending megabucks which wenger's never likely to do.
even then he brought in reyes that winter for a lot of money and van persie in the summer who are both quality players.
i can't say i was enthralled when we signed adebayor or diaby or eduardo or whoever recently but i still have enough faith in wenger to give him time to see what he can come up with.
ljungberg can say what he wants, it's irrelevant to me now, and as someone pointed out irrational for him to want great signings as that would most certainly relegate him even beyond the bench. i suppose he would have preferred to watch the ambitious arsenal from the bench or from the stands while collecting his exorbitant wages.
similarly i don't think anybody could have predicted the great success pires and ljungberg would go on to achieve in the premiership when they were signed.
when they were signed they weren't "statement of intent" signings or signings that the team explicitly needed.
for sure when we signed pires to replace overmars it felt like a step backwards in quality. no way anybody could say that in hindsight.
while i completely agree that since 2004 we have regressed in quality there were some factors Arsène surely could not have had a short term contingency plan for. reyes, cambell, cole all for different reasons left the club. bergkamp also retired and i'm not quite sure how someone replaces a player like him - more difficult than replacing th14 in my mind. selling vieira without adequately replacing him might have been a mistake but then we wouldn't have seen the meteoric rise of cesc fabregas. it was probably made worse because we sold a decent player in edu at the same time.
combined with pressures of building and financing a new stadium it's not difficult to see where it all went downhill.
besides how can you improve a squad that went 49 games unbeaten, it's almost impossible. we could have tried for more success in europe but in terms of improving the squad itself it's hard to see how we could have done that without spending megabucks which wenger's never likely to do.
even then he brought in reyes that winter for a lot of money and van persie in the summer who are both quality players.
i can't say i was enthralled when we signed adebayor or diaby or eduardo or whoever recently but i still have enough faith in wenger to give him time to see what he can come up with.
ljungberg can say what he wants, it's irrelevant to me now, and as someone pointed out irrational for him to want great signings as that would most certainly relegate him even beyond the bench. i suppose he would have preferred to watch the ambitious arsenal from the bench or from the stands while collecting his exorbitant wages.
gunner_down_under
Well-Known Member
Copied his hairstyle, loved his runs, and loved his bulldog spirit.
Would've missed him had he left two seasons ago, but now it's just another experienced but "past-it" invincible leaving Arsenal.
Our squad is thinner than Freddie's hair now.
Would've missed him had he left two seasons ago, but now it's just another experienced but "past-it" invincible leaving Arsenal.
Our squad is thinner than Freddie's hair now.
mood
Well-Known Member
Forget the title, Arsenal, EPL, and football wont END soon.
Our day will come, we just have to patient with the squad. We're rebuilding, these things take time.
Our day will come, we just have to patient with the squad. We're rebuilding, these things take time.
invisibleman18
Established Member
Good on him for just being honest and not feeding us some obvious load of bullshit about, say a director leaving somehow having an impact on his and the team's performance on the pitch for instance.
I wish him the best of luck at West Ham. One of the true legends.
It's very sad that now that great team (Henry, Vieira, Pires, Bergkamp, Ljungberg, Campbell, each the best in the world in their roles at their peak, which luckily for us all came at much the same time at Arsenal) is entirely gone. Let's hope that the current lot can emulate them somewhat.
I wish him the best of luck at West Ham. One of the true legends.
It's very sad that now that great team (Henry, Vieira, Pires, Bergkamp, Ljungberg, Campbell, each the best in the world in their roles at their peak, which luckily for us all came at much the same time at Arsenal) is entirely gone. Let's hope that the current lot can emulate them somewhat.
Biggus
Established Member
_scorpion_ said:
I'm not exactly a muppet- more like a feeble (they were sort of nasty muppets from the film "Meet the feebles") but I'll bite anyway.....The difference of course is that Freddie after years of great service to the club has now gone and is free to say what he likes, Gallas is still employed by Arsenal and should be mindful that he represents it.
Bye the way I agree with everything else you say Scorp....more experiance gone, a thinner and much worse squad than this time last year, 4th place you say.....if we're lucky.
@Tony nice one ....the irony is our squad lacks so much depth and experiance now, and as 'arry Rednapp would say "We're down to the bare bones" that we really do need Hleb. We simply can't afford to lose anyone else.
http://www.football365.com/story/0,1703 ... 08,00.html
quote:
'In the wide positions we can play Aleksandr Hleb, Theo Walcott, Tomas Rosicky and Emmanuel Eboue. So we have plenty of players.'
Good grief. :roll:
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