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Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

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BobP

Memri Fan
Think the overriding issue at the club is that the board are simply unable to reign in or keep Wenger in check.

He's basically a law unto himself.

The question which best encapsulates the problem is:

How can you question the work of someone who has been there long before you, and who has had successful spells?

Furthermore, what makes Wenger unique is that his footballing values are deeply ingrained at the club. The question then becomes, how do Arsenal continue being the Arsenal we know without the man who made it so?

It gives way to other questions, relating to the identity of AFC, if clubs should even concern themselves with having an identity in this world, whether ot not success is the only thing that counts, and so on.

FWIW, Arsenal existed long before Wenger, and will continue to do so long after he's gone. Some forget that we have a past and reduce Arsenal to Wenger. The issue is the complete lack of existing links to the past within the club.

Overll, things are never as bad as they appear. When a big club is in decline, all it takes is a fresh batch of academy products to breakthrough, a few astute signings, and the rejuvenation of existing 1st team players.
 

gunner4lyfe

Established Member
Think the overriding issue at the club is that the board are simply unable to reign in or keep Wenger in check.

He's basically a law unto himself.

The question which best encapsulates the problem is:

How can you question the work of someone who has been there long before you, and who has had successful spells?

Furthermore, what makes Wenger unique is that his footballing values are deeply ingrained at the club. The question then becomes, how do Arsenal continue being the Arsenal we know without the man who made it so?

It gives way to other questions, relating to the identity of AFC, if clubs should even concern themselves with having an identity in this world, whether ot not success is the only thing that counts, and so on.

FWIW, Arsenal existed long before Wenger, and will continue to do so long after he's gone. Some forget that we have a past and reduce Arsenal to Wenger. The issue is the complete lack of existing links to the past within the club.

Overll, things are never as bad as they appear. When a big club is in decline, all it takes is a fresh batch of academy products to breakthrough, a few astute signings, and the rejuvenation of existing 1st team players.
And a new manager
 

Sniper Mik

Not a Closet Sp**s Fan
Couldn't find your post, so I worked it out myself because I wanted to illustrate this point.

Arsenal home & away against the top 6 since 2013/14 in all competitions

Liverpool
WLWDWDDLLL
3 wins, 3 draw, 4 losses.
Scored 18, conceded 23.

Sp**s
WWWDLWDDDL
4 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses
Scored 12, conceded 10.

Chelsea
LDLLDWLLWLWW
4 wins, 2 draws, 6 losses.
Scored 8, conceded 17.

Man City
LDWDWWDLDLDW
4 wins, 5 draws, 3 losses.
Scored 20, conceded 17.

United
LDLWDWLDW
3 wins, 3 draws, 3 losses.
Scored 12, conceded 9.

Overall
18 wins, 17 draws, 18 losses.
Scored 70, conceded 76.

Remarkably even, overall. Could be better perhaps, but not as diabolically bad as one might think.

Why then do we have a persistent reputation as 'big 6 bottlers'? Four reasons, in my opinion.

1. Some poor patches during which we didn't record enough wins overall or we didn't record a win against a particular team for too long, which reinforced our bad reputation.

2. Far too many drubbings. 6-0, 5-1, 4-0 etc. sticks in people's memory a lot better and a lot longer than, say, a 2-1 win. So when people think Arsenal v top 6, they tend to think of the times we rolled over far too easily.

3. The manner in which we drop points. Drubbings aside, there have been too many games where we've dropped points in silly ways. That stuff sticks.

4. The big one: our away record. The media headlines are frequently filled with our atrocious away record against the top 6. And atrocious it is. 2 wins, 6 draws and 13 losses. This again reinforces the idea that we're horrendously bad against the top 6, but it also conveniently glosses over our good home record and decent overall record. But our away record is what gets rolled out time and again in the media.

We play away to a big side? Our terrible away record hits the headlines. We get another drubbing, like last week against Liverpool? Out comes the away record. Repitition is reinforcement.

But from the above you can see that, overall, it's really not all that bad. I'd say we still drop points a bit too often, but our record against the top 6 is actually much better than people think. None of this is to say, however, that our record against the top 6 is beyond reproach or that aspects of it should not be criticised.
Our home record against these teams is pretty bad as well. At home we're supposed to be the favorites. Only against Liverpool do we have a just about decent record at home with 2 wins in 4 games.
Against City we only have 1 win in 4.
Against United we only have 1 win in 4.
Against Sp**s we only have 1 win in 4.
Against Chelsea we only have 1 win in 4.
How is a draw a good result at home?
Bottomline is we just cannot produce quality against top teams. Home or away.
 

eyoba

Member
For me, last season was the time I lost all faith I had in him and this summer transfer window has made me despise him. For a man of his caliber, he seems to miss obvious things. Even if he wins the league title, I would still want him gone. I honestly would just write off this season and drop those players whose contract is up this year, unless they extend and start youngsters and those who want to be here.
I personally love Özil, but I wouldn't extend his contract if it was up to me. I would go back to the basics and start playing a game that focuses on the defensive side of the game and counter attack when the opportunity arises.
I just want him gone.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Our home record against these teams is pretty bad as well. At home we're supposed to be the favorites. Only against Liverpool do we have a just about decent record at home with 2 wins in 4 games.
Against City we only have 1 win in 4.
Against United we only have 1 win in 4.
Against Sp**s we only have 1 win in 4.
Against Chelsea we only have 1 win in 4.
How is a draw a good result at home?
Bottomline is we just cannot produce quality against top teams. Home or away.
Come on . . . . . @Toast's post was refreshingly unbiased. He posted the results and told it like it was.

In your first point you say at home against City we only won 1 game in 4. Let's look a them DDWD. But we didn't lose any of them against a side that can easily outspend us.

How did United get on at home against City in that same period. LWDL,a lot worse.

When top teams play each other, what % are normally draws anyway?

The bottom line is that you are now clutching at straws because @Toast totally disproved your post. :lol:
Wenger's pants have been pulled down repeatedly and I mean repeatedly by managers of United, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and now even feckin Sp**s
 
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Erlis

Only Came To See Granit Xhaka

Country: Kosova
I am for Wenger to leave, not that I think he is a bad manager, but I think he doesn't have enough power over those frauds of the players he has on the team. Well, there are few that deserve to wear the shirt for what they get paid for, at least. I'm not going to mention love or dedication you must have to a club you represent, or at least to not let down the fans all around the world.
 

Sniper Mik

Not a Closet Sp**s Fan
Come on . . . . . @Toast's post was refreshingly unbiased. He posted the results and told it like it was.

In your first point you say at home against City we only won 1 game in 4. Let's look a them DDWD. But we didn't lose any of them against a side that can easily outspend us.

How did United get on at home against City in that same period. LWDL,a lot worse.

When top teams play each other, what % are normally draws anyway?

The bottom line is that you are now clutching at straws because @Toast totally disproved your post. :lol:
When you keep on using the "outspend" theory as a crutch for your flimsy argument, it becomes quite clear who's clutching at straws. United just went through a massive transition period and now they've rebuilt themselves within 5 years. Why not use examples of Liverpool's home record? Why not Sp**s? Are you still going to complain how they can outspend us? There is nothing to disapprove. The facts are laid bare on the table. Arsenal are more likely to bottle a big game than any other team out there. You can keep on pretending that's not true if it makes you feel better.
 
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Gunnerslinger

New Member
I know many fans are disappointed at the conclusion of the transfer circus. But that's done and dusted. Whether you want Wenger to leave or stay is immaterial at this point. Why not get behind the manager (whoever he is) and his team and push on from here? Be proud that we are the Gunners.
 

karl

Well-Known Member
It is still possible to make things look a lot brighter if we sort out the midfield and revert to a back four. Bring in Elneny or retrain Coquelin to stay in position and we might have a solid base. The either Ramsey or Özil, but not both in the team.

For the defence it will be fine if we use players in their correct position and stop the 2 central midfielders acting as auxiliary strikers.

Then it is possible to play the front three who score the most goals. Sanchez - Lacazette - Walcott.

Maybe I am asking too much now Arsène has started to act so irrationally, but sometimes I think Fat Sam would get more from these players.
 

Lookin' for a new Baby

New name pending...
It is still possible to make things look a lot brighter if we sort out the midfield and revert to a back four. Bring in Elneny or retrain Coquelin to stay in position and we might have a solid base. The either Ramsey or Özil, but not both in the team.

For the defence it will be fine if we use players in their correct position and stop the 2 central midfielders acting as auxiliary strikers.

Then it is possible to play the front three who score the most goals. Sanchez - Lacazette - Walcott.

Maybe I am asking too much now Arséne has started to act so irrationally, but sometimes I think Fat Sam would get more from these players.
It would help if he played Kolasinac instead of shoehorning in his favourites to the detriment of the team. Also, starting Lacaette instead of waiting for him to adapt, how can either of them adapt to the prem if they don't play. A point Wrighty made during is rant on 606 last Sunday.
 

karl

Well-Known Member
It would help if he played Kolasinac instead of shoehorning in his favourites to the detriment of the team. Also, starting Lacaette instead of waiting for him to adapt, how can either of them adapt to the prem if they don't play. A point Wrighty made during is rant on 606 last Sunday.
Arsène doesn't really fully understand or have time for defence, as Martin Keown alluded to on motd last weekend. I would bring Per back in for a few games to add some organisation and calm things down too.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
When you keep on using the "outspend" theory as a crutch for your flimsy argument, it becomes quite clear who's clutching at straws. United just went through a massive transition period and now they've rebuilt themselves within 5 years. Why not use examples of Liverpool's home record? Why not Sp**s? Are you still going to complain how they can outspend us? There is nothing to disapprove. The facts are laid bare on the table. Arsenal are more likely to bottle a big game than any other team out there. You can keep on pretending that's not true if it makes you feel better.
Not pretending anything. Always believed that posting should be evidence based as much as possible. Making up stuff because people are frustrated with Wenger is out of order.

The fiasco that is this season is what we should be concentrating on, not rewriting history.
 

Lookin' for a new Baby

New name pending...
Arséne doesn't really fully understand or have time for defence, as Martin Keown alluded to on motd last weekend. I would bring Per back in for a few games to add some organisation and calm things down too.
It feels to me that he's still mucking about with kids, and trying out different combinations in defence. This should have been sorted out long ago. Monreal and Sanchez were linking up brilliantly, then he changed it to three at the back. He bought Kolasinac which I thought would offer some toughness at the back too, but no, he plays a system that doesn't even suit him. Per, great FA cup final, but he is slow, I take your point that he could help us get back to basics. It just feels like a shambles, that was before the transfer window closed!
 
"The fiasco that is this season is what we should be concentrating on, not rewriting history."

Rewriting history?
Do you deny all recent transfer windows have been a shambles for us, we've bought journeymen, given up on them, not bought the positions we needed, failed to motivate the few half-decent players we did get?
Do you deny we've fallen from lofty heights to run-of-the-mill?
Do you deny tactically Wenger does bizarre things?
Do you deny his answer to try to fix it - is to bring on like for like at 68 to 70 mins?
At least you predict a fiasco for ths season, that's a step forward in addressing our problems.
 

Sniper Mik

Not a Closet Sp**s Fan
Not pretending anything. Always believed that posting should be evidence based as much as possible. Making up stuff because people are frustrated with Wenger is out of order.

The fiasco that is this season is what we should be concentrating on, not rewriting history.
What? :lol:
Everything in my post was evidence. Are you saying I made up those stats about our record against Top 6 teams at home?
Why do I even bother smh
 

karl

Well-Known Member
It feels to me that he's still mucking about with kids, and trying out different combinations in defence. This should have been sorted out long ago. Monreal and Sanchez were linking up brilliantly, then he changed it to three at the back. He bought Kolasinac which I thought would offer some toughness at the back too, but no, he plays a system that doesn't even suit him. Per, great FA cup final, but he is slow, I take your point that he could help us get back to basics. It just feels like a shambles, that was before the transfer window closed!
I say Per because you see the effect he has on other less confident players around him. I really like Holding, but he has been put in a difficult position and needs some help. Also I am fed up with so many left backs on the field. Montreal is the only one that I thin can do a job in the centre, but still is not ideal on a regular basis.

Getting that central midfield right is still possible with the players we have if Ramsey is removed. He simply doesn't understands the position and thinks he is Ronaldo without the goals.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
What? :lol:
Everything in my post was evidence. Are you saying I made up those stats about our record against Top 6 teams at home?
Why do I even bother smh
I explained very clearly with examples of how you presented the data in a biased way. I'm finished with this.
 
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