Life After Emery Begins

[SingmeasongSong]

Marcelino on the London tube.

How's he going to look after 2 years at Arsenal then - like a man close to his last days ffs

So you have to win with mediocre players in order to get credit?

Here's Carlo's resume:

3 Champions League titles
1 Serie A
1 Premier League
1 Ligue 1
1 Bundesliga
1 Copa Italia
1 FA Cup
1 Copa del Rey
2 DFL-Supercup
2 FIFA Club World Cup
2 Serie A Coach of the Year
2 Panchina d'Oro
2 IFFHS World's Best Coach
1 European Coach of the Year
1 World Soccer Magazine Manager of the Year

And the same organization that annually presents the Ballon d'Or just this year named Carlo as the 8th Greatest Manager in Football History.

Yet you never understood why he was rated so highly...

Mmh, not debating Ancelotti, but I find it absurd to see Ferguson on 2nd spot whilst Wenger did not appear.

I get it, it's always about titles, but not to me - Ferguson had the ten times easier job than Wenger, thus they are on par to me considering what both have done with what's been given.

I acknowledge fighting the odds much more than titles, thus Klopp has always been more rated than Pep for me as well.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

**** Ancelotti. He wouldn't make us any better. His true abilities showed during his last days at Chelsea. Requires the best to succeed. This is why he's being ousted at Napoli.

 

[jones]

Need @jones for balance, sure he’ll have some nasty words for him

Why would I? Kovac is well loved here, even if the way he left left a sour taste.

It's difficult to say how he'd do here. He's a very authorative disciplinarian so that'd get our dumbasses back in line and he's coached some massive defences using some absolute garbage players. He used to play 352 but has used 433 and 4231 at Bayern too. Definitely one for big occasions too, in three Cup runs he got to three finals two of them with Frankfurt barely losing one to Dortmund and winning one vs Heynckes Bayern which he really had no business winning.

I genuinely think he's a very good manager, the question is what did this Bayern stint do to him.
They are possibly the worst club in Europe when it comes to players or staff undermining their coach. They did it to almost every manager including even Heynckes who is among their most beloved. Their ****ing physio got into a public ****fest with Pep Guardiola. The players publicly took the piss out of Carletto who won everything there is to win. Every single piece of **** player at the club knows if the coach does something they don't like they're free to go to Uli and Kalle the two top men and they'll always find an open door because of their unreal need for recognition. They have a DoF in Salihamidzic whose job description includes "decisions on player acquisitions up to 25m" with his boss Hoeneß saying in public that he doesn't bother dealing with transfers till that threshold

Bottom line with guys like Ribery Müller Robben Kimmich or Neuer around the knives are always at the ready. Kovac was publicly undressed before they ever signed him because Rummenigge wanted someone with a higher profile. The whole club talks more to the media than to the people they talk about, we have a bunch of dickheads at Arsenal but it's not even remotely as bad as it is in Bavaria.

Anyways if he can compartmenalise that experience and go back to the guy who dicked Bayern 3-1 in the cup final he's probably the best we're linked to incl Pochettino.

 

[Slartibartfast]

How's he going to look after 2 years at Arsenal then - like a man close to his last days ffs


Mmh, not debating Ancelotti, but I find it absurd to see Ferguson on 2nd spot whilst Wenger did not appear.

I get it, it's always about titles, but not to me - Ferguson had the ten times easier job than Wenger, they are on par to me.
I acknowledge fighting the odds much more than titles, thus Klopp has always been more rated than Pep for me as well.

Wenger is on the list. He just didn't make the top 10. I mean, Bill Frickin' Shankly was only 10th. Busby, Trappatoni, Clough, Lippi and Herbert Chapman failed to make the top 10 as well. Ferguson was winning before Arsène came along and he continued to win after Arsène was no longer really in position to due to financial restrictions. I think Fergie is well deserving of being where he is on the list.

 

[GDeep™]

I think it's rather silly for Marcelino to be dismissed out of hand for Arsenal because he's never managed Real Madrid or Barcelona.

Isn’t it more that his achievements are rather limited and at times pretty poor, in a career which has spanned over 20 years and 10-12 football clubs. 35% win rate Sevilla for example.

 

[jones]

Marcelino on the London tube.

That's not Marcelino ffs

He's actually a good manager, pretty similar to Favre same lineup strengths and bad weakness of being unable to stop a rut. Not what we need at the moment anyway.

 

[jones]

Isn’t it more that his achievements are rather limited and at times pretty poor, in a career which has spanned over 20 years and 10-12 football clubs. 35% win rate Sevilla for example.

He bombed at Sevilla true. Did very well with Valencia and Villarreal though

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Wenger is on the list. He just didn't make the top 10. I mean, Bill Frickin' Shankly was only 10th. Busby, Trappatoni, Clough, Lippi and Herbert Chapman failed to make the top 10 as well. Ferguson was winning before Arsène came along and he continued to win after Arsène was no longer really in position to due to financial restrictions. I think Fergie is well deserving of being where he is on the list.

I acknowledge that line of thought and I'm not trying to give a right or wrong for that matter, just feel like I'd give more value to other things besides winning.

But winning and titles will always be the defining factor for the broader audiance, it is what it is..

Cannot really give a one true answer to that question anyways imo. Ferguson certainly belongs on that list.

 

[El Granit-Coq]

I thought Freddie would reignite the passion for Arsenal but man has this past 2 years just been extra draining.

Not sure the direction we are actually heading atm with so much uncertainty. Do we hire someone now and hope they can turn things around? Hire someone now and sack them in the summer when someone better suited is available? Keep Freddie and write this season off?

Such a sticky situation the board put themselves in, however, one thing is certain... If Arteta comes then a passive support for the club is justified.

 

[GDeep™]

That's not Marcelino ffs

He's actually a good manager, pretty similar to Favre same lineup strengths and bad weakness of being unable to stop a rut. Not what we need at the moment anyway.

I know who that is ffs

 

[A_G]

Another PSG reject who flopped in the CL and lost the dressing room...?

 

[yybecause]

Yes yes. Leader as a player, coached by great coach. Once again, historically this is not a recipe for a successful manager. Ton of great players, great captains have failed miserably as managers. Some have of course made it as well. No correlation to one way or the other. Like @Mark Tobias said good students don’t automatically make good teachers. I don’t personally know Arteta so can’t say about his pedigree. What I do know, however, that in most jobs experience is a positive thing especially in tight situations, such as the one at Arsenal atm.

So like I’ve said before, Arteta could become amazing but there are absolutely no guarantees that he’ll be even decent. Which ever way his managerial career ends up taking, surely the current situtation at Arsenal is not the ideal way to start finding out.

By the way, the allmighty Arsène Wenger agrees with me. He said we should give Freddie 5-6 games and if it doesn’t work out bring in somebody EXPERIENCED!

of course, there is no guarantees Arteta could end up being average, ****, or great.
I have high hopes on him and Xabi, based on them as players, but you never know.
My whole point was that Simeone, Conte, Arteta, Poch, Jose...you name it, np one guarantees you anything.

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Another PSG reject who flopped in the CL and lost the dressing room...?

Nah, good manager with modern ideas. Wouldn't be too bad of a choice, but will we wait for his sack ?

Dont think so.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Isn’t it more that his achievements are rather limited and at times pretty poor, in a career which has spanned over 20 years and 10-12 football clubs. 35% win rate Sevilla for example.

You mean like Sarri managed 16 clubs before Juventus with limited to poor achievements and a 39% win rate at Empoli, for example? Not to mention that 32% win rate at Pescara and 27% win rate at Arezzo -- both while in the 2nd division. You know, before Sarri went to Chelsea his only trophy was Coppa Italia Serie D with Sansovino in 2003.

 

[A_G]

Balague vs Ornstein

 

[Slartibartfast]

I acknowledge that line of thought and I'm not trying to give a right or wrong for that matter, just feel like I'd give more value to other things besides winning.

But winning and titles will always be the defining factor for the broader audiance, it is what it is..

Cannot really give a one true answer to that question anyways imo. Ferguson certainly belongs on that list.

Well, lists are always subject to opinion, but in this case it was a consensus among a large number of football experts and historians.

And it doesn't mean that Carlo would be the best option for Arsenal right now. But, since the word "elite" was brought into it, he's really the only elite level manager (if you're not watering down the term) who might be available. Nobody else has both the experience and resume to be considered such.

Personally (and I say this as a long-time fan of Carlo), I see him only as a shorter term option. I''d be surprised if Arsenal offered him a deal beyond the end of 2020-21. But I think it's likely they'll go in another direction. But who knows?

 

[Tumblin'Dice]

We should not be sharing a shortlist with Everton Football club.

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Well, lists are always subject to opinion, but in this case it was a consensus among a large number of football experts and historians.

And it doesn't mean that Carlo would be the best option for Arsenal right now. But, since the word "elite" was brought into it, he's really the only elite level manager (if you're not watering down the term) who might be available. Nobody else has both the experience and resume to be considered such.

Personally (and I say this as a long-time fan of Carlo), I see him only as a shorter term option. I''d be surprised if Arsenal offered him a deal beyond the end of 2020-21. But I think it's likely they'll go in another direction. But who knows?

Share that opinion 100%.

Out of all the really experienced options available I'd take Ancelotti first, but I would not see him as a long term option.

Poch, to me, seems like the perfect fit for a long term project who already comes with a great resume whilst also being of the 'newer generation' and I'm personally slightly in favor of doing full rebuild asap.

1. Poch
2. Ancelotti/Arteta
I know, very different people, but they serve different goals

If you were to wait till the end of the season and be very optimistic with who you could get:

Nagelsman - Rose - Ten Hag - Poch

 

[Slartibartfast]

Balague vs Ornstein

I'm glad to see that he's been working hard on learning English. That's really been my biggest question with him (and I couldn't see Arsenal hiring anyone who didn't speak English with some competence considering what has just happened).

If that's the case, I have no problem at all if it's Marcelino. I've actually watched him manage Valencia (particularly closely since they're my favorite Spanish side) and Villareal. For those who want Aubameyang and Lacazette to partner up front, this is your guy. And his 4-4-2 is based on a tight defense and using speed to break the other way. He's known for rigorous defensive training sessions where his center backs are put in 3-on-2 situations.

 

[PoleInGoal]

Balague vs Ornstein

This dude looks 18 and 48 at the same time