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Thomas Partey

Do you think Partey will sign for Arsenal?


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Burt Gold

Active Member
Big fan of Sangaré and I think we should be targeting him but I'm not sufe if he truly counts as a Partey alternative. Partey is at a different level when it comes to advancing the ball. It'd be pretty good if we got both, actually, but I know that's not happening.

100% Sangare and Partey are not comparable. One is a ready made midfield boss the other is a young prospect who would be slowly eased into the team and who knows if he'd ever make it. I like Sangare but he isn't a solution for Arsenal right now.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
They're both as needed. We bring in a creative midfielder but we still lack power and athleticism? We then have a midfield that can be outran and overpowered.

We definitely all agree we need both but like I said if you make me choose one it's creative midfielder without a doubt. We have pivot players, one interesting, talented, but green one in Guendouzi, and one mediocre option in Xhaka (not counting in Torreira, he's not good enough). We don't have any creative midfielder, or anyone of working in between the lines. It's just quite clearly our #1 need.

I was enthused by what I saw of Arteta's experiments early on with Guendouzi as a 6, I really think he could fashion a very interesting player there with some vision and patience. In the right tactical set-up, with the proper coaching and maturity from Guendouzi, we can definitely have a viable midfield of Guendouzi-Ceballos-creative midfielder who defends more than Özil (Buendía fits this description). Guendouzi is not unathletic as people are weirdly making him out, Ceballos is a decent defender, and in general you're just not talking about a midfield any less powerful or athletic than successful Guardiola midfields of the past (Alonso-Thiago-Vidal or Alonso-Schweinsteigger-Gotze) or present (Rodri-Gundogan-De Bruyne or Rodri-De Bruyne-Silva), which we assume is the idea Arteta wants to move toward, something more like Pep's possession-based, pressing, juego de posición, though we don't really know what Arteta's idea is for sure at the moment.

It's also worth noting some of the concerns raised by Ted Knutson in this thread.
While I think his year to year trend has more to do with Atléti's than Thomas, ie, I think he's a better passer than that radar suggests, I think people need to be careful in assuming we are surely getting a world class player in him who solves all our problems there. Basically, there is risk in any decision--keeping Guendouzi, developing him as a 6 with a cheaper option alongside him comes with risk that Guendouzi can't defend even with proper coaching, etc.--but buying Partey for 25m on a high wage (only way there's any realism to this transfer, if there is any at all) and swapping Guendouzi at the bottom of his value is just not an intelligent analysis of risk any way you look at it.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I've obviously not watched Sangare like a scout would, but from what I can tell it doesn't look like he's bad on the ball. He's probably better on the ball than Ndidi, and he can put up similar defensive numbers to Ndidi. In this graph here he ranks around players like Guendouzi, Roca, Locatelli and Bennacer, who most people would class as deep-lying playmakers:

EdZ2LcyXgAABrTu


I've also seen examples of him dribble past people that were reminiscent of the way Diaby used to, when his close control was exceptional for someone with such long legs.

Plus he's about 4-5 years further back in his development than Partey and available for about a third of the price. So there's every chance someone like Sangare is the Partey of tomorrow.

Could get him for around 10 million. We will likely miss out on him like we ignored Thuram.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
We definitely all agree we need both but like I said if you make me choose one it's creative midfielder without a doubt. We have pivot players, one interesting, talented, but green one in Guendouzi, and one mediocre option in Xhaka (not counting in Torreira, he's not good enough). We don't have any creative midfielder, or anyone of working in between the lines. It's just quite clearly our #1 need.

I was enthused by what I saw of Arteta's experiments early on with Guendouzi as a 6, I really think he could fashion a very interesting player there with some vision and patience. In the right tactical set-up, with the proper coaching and maturity from Guendouzi, we can definitely have a viable midfield of Guendouzi-Ceballos-creative midfielder who defends more than Özil (Buendía fits this description). Guendouzi is not unathletic as people are weirdly making him out, Ceballos is a decent defender, and in general you're just not talking about a midfield any less powerful or athletic than successful Guardiola midfields of the past (Alonso-Thiago-Vidal or Alonso-Schweinsteigger-Gotze) or present (Rodri-Gundogan-De Bruyne or Rodri-De Bruyne-Silva), which we assume is the idea Arteta wants to move toward, something more like Pep's possession-based, pressing, juego de posición, though we don't really know what Arteta's idea is for sure at the moment.

It's also worth noting some of the concerns raised by Ted Knutson in this thread.
While I think his year to year trend has more to do with Atléti's than Thomas, ie, I think he's a better passer than that radar suggests, I think people need to be careful in assuming we are surely getting a world class player in him who solves all our problems there. Basically, there is risk in any decision--keeping Guendouzi, developing him as a 6 with a cheaper option alongside him comes with risk that Guendouzi can't defend even with proper coaching, etc.--but buying Partey for 25m on a high wage (only way there's any realism to this transfer, if there is any at all) and swapping Guendouzi at the bottom of his value is just not an intelligent analysis of risk any way you look at it.
Think the idea of Guendouzi here is dead.

I liked Guendouzi but he has not improved since being here and much of that is his lack of maturity IMO. Emery definitely hasn't helped in that regard - specifically regarding the lack of tactical acumen in his role - but a little humility would have gone a long way and he doesn't have the currency to get away with not having any. I disagree on Guendouzi's lack of athleticism - he's very slow and not very agile either. He's marginally quicker than Xhaka but he has the same propensity for TMT aswell (Too Many Touches tm). It would not be an issue however if the rest of the midfield wasn't also super slow. I would rather not sell Guendouzi either but if he's gonna be a little ***** because Arteta told him to behave then £25-30m is fine by me. It's not ideal but our hand is forced here, and kowtowing to Guendouzi because he might be a superstar one day sets a bad precedent for the rest of Arteta's tenure.

I hear where you're coming from re Partey and swapping with Guendouzi but there's no great solutions here considering where we are. Everything is a gamble where we sacrifice something.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
SI has him valued at 42m Euros here 12th top youth in world football:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si...luable-players-under-21-mbappe-pulisic-sancho

Transfermkt had him valued at 50m Euros and the top young CM in the world:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ju...t-of-most-valuable-u21-midfielders/236811/amp


CIES football observatory had him in an algorithm according to advanced stats and had him rated at 70m Euros, this was one year ago, only rated behind Sancho:

https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2018/261/en/

We've done a very poor job of developing him, and of course our 3 managers in one season didn't help him and he had a very poor year ngl. There's a top player in there and imo we are gonna regret flogging him off.

This is all grain of salt stuff tho because it's not a science. Remember when Leon Bailey was the next hottest thing? And he's had a couple seasons now where he's not lived up to expectations. For me tho we could be doing so much more to make Guendo a top asset...

That would indeed be the case had the club known that he was going to be for sale longer ago. The fact is the only reason Guendouzi is for sale from Arsenal is that he's refused to kiss and make up with Arteta. If he were still involved we wouldn't be selling him.
 

KrissKringle

Reinventing VAR 😡
For the sake of discussion, since I really don't see Partey coming here, he'd be much more useful if we play counter attacking football.
He gets the ball, dribbles past 1-2 players and quickly passes to someone on the wing/through ball.

In a possession game setup, he wouldn't have the same sort of impact, (not for a lack of pace or technique) because he'd be instructed to remain in front of the defense, so someone else would have to drive the ball forward.
Either Xhaka gets to do that or we bring in someone who can, changing both our central midfielders.

If Partey would bomb forward Ramsey style and Xhaka sits deep, that's not exactly a good idea, as we've seen many times.
 
That would indeed be the case had the club known that he was going to be for sale longer ago. The fact is the only reason Guendouzi is for sale from Arsenal is that he's refused to kiss and make up with Arteta. If he were still involved we wouldn't be selling him.

Yes but my point was that we've handled this the wrong way by trying to make an example of our most valuable asset.
 

Aussie_gunner123

Established Member

Country: Australia
That is what irritates about us & our transfers. We are never willing to pay the full amount to get the deal over the line then we've always got to look at the cheaper alternatives. On the other hand you've got United, City, Chelsea & Liverpool who no doubt wouldn't hesitate in paying the full amount if they know thats what will get the deal over the line. Even if we win the Cup & gets us more money I bet you we still won't be willing to pay the full amount. Hence why we are falling so far behind the general top 4 now.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
For the sake of discussion, since I really don't see Partey coming here, he'd be much more useful if we play counter attacking football.
He gets the ball, dribbles past 1-2 players and quickly passes to someone on the wing/through ball.

In a possession game setup, he wouldn't have the same sort of impact, (not for a lack of pace or technique) because he'd be instructed to remain in front of the defense, so someone else would have to drive the ball forward.
Either Xhaka gets to do that or we bring in someone who can, changing both our central midfielders.

If Partey would bomb forward Ramsey style and Xhaka sits deep, that's not exactly a good idea, as we've seen many times.

It's not so much the attacking aspect when he's sitting deep. He enables a high press and being able to respond to a counter when we lose the ball especially as cover for the full backs. He doesn't need to be able to play tiki taka or something, he's good enough on the ball. And he's only part of the solution, the team definitely needs more creativity.

Xhaka and Ceballos just don't have the physical capability to pull that of consistently. If they get beat in the middle of the park, they're not going to recover.
 

Burt Gold

Active Member
Yes but my point was that we've handled this the wrong way by trying to make an example of our most valuable asset.
We're not trying to make an example out of anyone. Arteta has set the rules, this boy will not follow them. There is only one way forward from that.

This is a club that has had a poor culture. Arteta's first job is to change that.

There is a way back for Guendouzi if there was one for Xhaka. We shall see if he takes it. If not we just move on. Use the money from his sale to reinvest.
 

Burt Gold

Active Member
That is what irritates about us & our transfers. We are never willing to pay the full amount to get the deal over the line then we've always got to look at the cheaper alternatives. On the other hand you've got United, City, Chelsea & Liverpool who no doubt wouldn't hesitate in paying the full amount if they know thats what will get the deal over the line. Even if we win the Cup & gets us more money I bet you we still won't be willing to pay the full amount. Hence why we are falling so far behind the general top 4 now.
This was the Wenger way no doubt, but we did spend more than anyone last summer so things might be a little different for Arsenal going forward.

We had a hugely successful summer last yr, we just need to do that once or twice more and we will be contenders.
 

Aussie_gunner123

Established Member

Country: Australia
This was the Wenger way no doubt, but we did spend more than anyone last summer so things might be a little different for Arsenal going forward.

We had a hugely successful summer last yr, we just need to do that once or twice more and we will be contenders.
Maybe Arteta might change things & start doing that but in that situation if Arteta is determined to get him why can't we just do it, get it over & done with. I'm sure we've actually got the 44 straight off.
 

Burt Gold

Active Member
Maybe Arteta might change things & start doing that but in that situation if Arteta is determined to get him why can't we just do it, get it over & done with. I'm sure we've actually got the 44 straight off.
There are a million reasons why. They need to explore the deal and how it makes the most sense. Offering a partial swap is a great idea. But anyway lets just sit back and see what happens and try not to jump to any negative conclusions at this stage.
 

Aussie_gunner123

Established Member

Country: Australia
There are a million reasons why. They need to explore the deal and how it makes the most sense. Offering a partial swap is a great idea. But anyway lets just sit back and see what happens and try not to jump to any negative conclusions at this stage.
I don't mind trying the swap first but I think if his clause is 44-50 I'm pretty sure they'd still want more then 25. He is one of their top players after all & they won't go easy unless Partey himself convinces them he wants out to join us.
 
@AbouCuéllar there's a reason that Ted Knutson guy doesn't want Partey, his advanced stats are weak af, the same reason I'm not high on him either, and that's the owner of Statbomb. I agree getting a link from midfield to attack is much more important. A shame we've got all the pieces and they don't wanna develop Guendo. He's a 20 year old kid lmao the club is acting like he's a grown man and fully matured or something. Need to nurture him more.
 

jato

Active Member
I don't mind trying the swap first but I think if his clause is 44-50 I'm pretty sure they'd still want more then 25. He is one of their top players after all & they won't go easy unless Partey himself convinces them he wants out to join us.

It would be nice, but realistically we don't have the money for it. Are we going to throw the kitchen sink at it before there are other viable alternatives to pay the fee or get the fee down?

A year ago, Kronke junior said we are Europa league team paying CL wages. Now we are not even an Europa league team paying CL wages. It all adds up. It would be different if we had already made the CL/Europa for next year because I'm sure the transaction would be easier. But we have a lot of money the club pissing out weekly on players on high wages that we can't get rid of.

If there are ticket revenue which accounts for like 40% of our money (correct me if I'm wrong) is gone next season that's a massive chunk.
Look at all the money we are wasting on wages and/or transfer fees:
- Özil 350k/wk
- Mustafi 100k/wk
- Kola min 100k/wk (he came on a free so his wage bills makes up for it)
- Sokratis who won't leave
- Luiz still on an expensive wage bill

Add in the Covid environment and financially as a club we don't have that firepower because we've spent a lot already in the past few transfer windows. Don't forget we still have Pepe's instalment to pay this summer.

Man United will always have money because of who they are and sponsorship deals (we have been lagging behind commercially for a while now).

Chelsea have at least $100 million from the sale of Hazard alone + CL which is why they afford to go out and spend.

City have their oil owners. Liverpool are also stocked especially with the Coutinhno sale.

What do we have in comparison? None of those. We don't sell players for high fees, we don't have owners that put in, we don't generate enough revenue from other streams commercially. As a fan, I would love to be able to just pay the release clause. As a team owner, it's better to try and get rid of dead wood first + there is still a while to go before the window closes.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
It took us over a month from our initial offer to sign Kieran Tierney.

Have faith in the board, they seem to get it done once they start going after a player properly. Especially when a bid is put in.
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
It took us over a month from our initial offer to sign Kieran Tierney.

Have faith in the board, they seem to get it done once they start going after a player properly. Especially when a bid is put in.

Problem is sometimes they wait and mess about too long and you end up paying 35m for a Mustafi.

We dont want to be negotiating for a month and not getting it over the line. Chelsea arent hanging about. You can say oh but they have money. They are shopping at Harrods.

We have money we just are shopping in Aldi. Should be able to get things done quicker.

Arteta and the board should have a list of 5/6 players for both situations and most of those players should be more or less the same.

We need to do good, fast business. I dont want to be sitting the day before the restart running around desperate only to land an opportunist signing who's deal somewhere else fell through.
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Problem is sometimes they wait and mess about too long and you end up paying 35m for a Mustafi.

We dont want to be negotiating for a month and not getting it over the line. Chelsea arent hanging about. You can say oh but they have money. They are shopping at Harrods.

We have money we just are shopping in Aldi. Should be able to get things done quicker.

Arteta and the board should have a list of 5/6 players for both situations and most of those players should be more or less the same.

We need to do good, fast business. I dont want to be sitting the day before the restart running around desperate only to land an opportunist signing who's deal somewhere else fell through.

Is Partey Aldi? He's Harrods to me, we just don't know how to buy him, shall we go into our over draft? Max out another credit card? Get him on finance????
 
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