29 Wed UEFA Champions League A Manchester United 19:45

[Rohit]

Do you think Fergie wanted us to utterly dominate the ball like we did in the second half? Ok he was happy to keep it tight, and hit us on the break, but he couldn't have dreamed we'd have so much of the ball and be so ineffecive in our usage of it. Who goes to Old Trafford and has 60% of the ball in the second half of a big game? No one. The problem is we had nothing, absolutely nothing in the final third.

Did we really have 60% of the ball in the second half? The overall match possession statistics was 55-45 in United's favor. If we did have 60% in the second half then our possession in the first half must have been a horrific statistic.

First half was 67-33 in United's favor if i am not wrong

 

[Captain]

Possession stats are pretty much useless without territory stats. We barely moved into their defensive third for most of the game and it was only when they settled down and looked to hit us on the break that we started to really move forward.

We could have been blown away last night but we kept the score down and have a second chance at home.

 

[Rohit]

Wenger has promised we will see a different Arsenal next week. With Rio out we can do some damage offensively. Hopefully Eduardo gets some game time at the weekend.

 

[hackajack]

There was nothing wrong with Wenger's tactics or team selection.

He failed to make a real impact from the subs bench though, as is often the case.

Eh, did you not notice their 3 CMs up against Song and Nasri and having a free man in the center of the park for half an hour?

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

I don't know why but everytime United attack, we look so easy to get penetrated by them. Its like there is always alot of space for them despite our defensive formation.

Very very lightweight

We had numbers at the back but we were not marking them tight enough thus giving them space. It really wasnt even about them creating space but more like us giving them space including our very own CBs. There were times where Teves actually got the ball turned before we got to him. You give them space they will hurt you, same goes with us actually. I believe Manure did a bettr job denying us space than we did denying them. It wasnt bad formation, but just poor execution of the formation and bad form of that day from our players.

 

[sesquioxide]

I'm guessing to an extent. However, we definitely had 29% possession at the 30 minute mark, and the official UEFA stats confirmed we finished with 48% possession at the end of the game. A bit rough but 60% possession in the second half is about right.

First half was 67-33 in United's favor if i am not wrong

My goodness. Thank God for Almunia, that's all I have to say.

Possession stats are pretty much useless without territory stats. We barely moved into their defensive third for most of the game and it was only when they settled down and looked to hit us on the break that we started to really move forward.

You are right, of course, and I think you identified our issue. But in that case (out of pure curiosity, not criticism of your viewpoint) why do you put so much blame on Adebayor? He could certainly have done better in holding the ball. But it's not like our other players (e.g. Diaby or Fabregas) had done particularly well in moving the ball into their defensive third. Our tactical system entirely failed us, and our situation in my opinion only "somewhat" improved beginning with the introduction of a second striker.

 

[Rohit]

You are right, of course, and I think you identified our issue. But in that case (out of pure curiosity, not criticism of your viewpoint) why do you put so much blame on Adebayor? He could certainly have done better in holding the ball. But it's not like our other players (e.g. Diaby or Fabregas) had done particularly well in moving the ball into their defensive third. Our tactical system entirely failed us, and our situation in my opinion only "somewhat" improved beginning with the introduction of a second striker.

The question wasn't for me but i had huge expectations from Adebayor. I thought our big important players will really stand up and be counted. Yes the entire offensive unit failed us but when Adebayor is up for it there is no stopping him and he has proven that against Terry as well as Ferdinand in the past. He got outmuscled too easily which shouldn't have happened and i think it's all down to determination. Adebayor has many flaws but his determination has always compensated for it. It wasn't there yesterday. Last night Ferdinand was more determined and motivated of the two. It wasn't like Adebayor was double teamed.

 

[Anzac]

I've only seen the last 20-30 minutes, and missed the nearly carnage in the first half hour of the match. From the little I saw we were clueless in the final 3rd & ManU were good value for the win, and we could have conceeded a hatfully had it not been for Almunia - he may not 'win' games but he sure as h*ll has done his utmost to keep us in with a shout.

Our ball transition was far too slow, as was the midfield support. I hope AW will finally put Cesc the AMC away & let him get back to playing from deeper. AW had said we would attack both CFC & ManU - but the truth was almost the opposite.

If we don't see a very different AFC next week then our season will be over in more ways than one, and I'll look forward to the usual post match BS & the rumour mill to start regarding which players we'll retain in the summer / which ones will be going..........

 

[Feet]

I take the following things from the game.

1) Diaby's time is up. I've had it with this guy, I'd rather play Denilson, atleast he puts in consistently merely adequate performances unlike Diaby who has consistently allowed moves to break down as soon as he recieves the ball.
I mean - atleast Eboue consistently has his pace, Bendtner consistently has his heading ability and Denilson consistently has good close control. What specific quality does Diaby offer this isn't most times terrible? Answer - nothing.

2) Fabregas hasn't got the pace or power to be playing AM in a 451 or 4231. That has to stop now. He did alright against Boro, but that was Boro.

3) Gibbs is a future England left-back.

 

[sesquioxide]

You are right, of course, and I think you identified our issue. But in that case (out of pure curiosity, not criticism of your viewpoint) why do you put so much blame on Adebayor? He could certainly have done better in holding the ball. But it's not like our other players (e.g. Diaby or Fabregas) had done particularly well in moving the ball into their defensive third. Our tactical system entirely failed us, and our situation in my opinion only "somewhat" improved beginning with the introduction of a second striker.

The question wasn't for me but i had huge expectations from Adebayor. I thought our big important players will really stand up and be counted. Yes the entire offensive unit failed us but when Adebayor is up for it there is no stopping him and he has proven that against Terry as well as Ferdinand in the past. He got outmuscled too easily which shouldn't have happened and i think it's all down to determination. Adebayor has many flaws but his determination has always compensated for it. It wasn't there yesterday. Last night Ferdinand was more determined and motivated of the two. It wasn't like Adebayor was double teamed.

I do agree. There was that incidient in the first half when Fabregas delivered him a pass (one of our few positive attack moves) and it was up to him and Vidic to chase for it but he got outmuscled and it went out for goal kick. He definitely could have been more physical.

 

[marco]

i nearly felt liek joining in witht eh mancs after the game
his mum washes elephants...
what a ****! **** ****!he can **** himself
for 60 minutes adebayor did not move, not hold one ball up not make some sort of movement when nasri and song are bursting through the midfield..

i would love to see the stats for how much he ran yesterday!

we were **** what a complete and utter let down from them.. a big game like that and we dont turn up..
theo - non existen fabregas an absolute waste that far forward diaby- the usual!
at least bentdner when he came on linked players up and eduardo did more holding the ball up than our useless **** of a striker.

you can all defend him tell me abotu his 30 goals last year( 6 v derby) but i never want to see him again ever!lazy ****

only decent thing to come from last night was almunia's best ever game for us, song immense again and i got home at 2.00 which is a result from manchester!
gutted with how we played- i cant remember getting excited at any point of the game atmosphere ok in our end but prefer the corner bit..

 

[sesquioxide]

I take the following things from the game.

1) Diaby's time is up. I've had it with this guy, I'd rather play Denilson, atleast he puts in consistently merely adequate performances unlike Diaby who has consistently allowed moves to break down as soon as he recieves the ball.

I'm not exactly comfortable with laying blame on the quality of Diaby as a player rather than on the unsuitability of the tactical system. He should have been the attacking midfielder, not Fabregas.

But I would most certainly agree I would have preferred Denilson for this game. Denilson would have retained the ball better, played with greater positional discipline behind Fabregas, and could have given Fabregas and Adebayor and Walcott greater freedom in trying to piece something together (rather than lose posssion before they could do something).

Denilson gets too much inappropriate abuse in this forum.

 

[kel varnsen]

Ade upped his effort as the game progressed but it became quite clear that vidic and rio were out of his league. Wenger needs a striker to go with the cm and cd he needs. This team needs work. I think we are quite alarmingly far away from competing for the league. Wenger thinks he can 'cheat' his way to a trophy through the cup competitions but this season has seen that strategy fail because we'v come up against quality opposition.

eduardo would be a far better option alone up front. unlike adebayor, he is actually able to link up with the midfielders and provide the midfielders with a viable passing outlet up front.

 

[Biggus]

What is sad is that it wasn't the tactical genius of Fergusson that beat us. It was Wenger that beat himself and and us through tactical ****.

I totally agree, this game could have been won, thats not sad- its infuriating.

There was nothing wrong with Wenger's tactics or team selection.

He failed to make a real impact from the subs bench though, as is often the case.

Well substitutions are a very important part of match tactics as well as setting out a particular team for a particular purpose- That's why Hiddink will win the CL and Wenger won't.

 

[Gurgen]

Terrible performance from us, not helped by the ridiculous cowardly tactics employed by Wenger. You just have to say we (are) were not good enough, they completely outplayed us.

This * experiment with Nasri in central midfield (he was even behind Song for most of the game) has to stop asap. Wenger shouldn't try to be clever because he simply isn't. Why we played Diaby, a right footed player who always cuts inside against a left footed right back is also a big mystery to me. The less said about Cesc 'Dennis Bergkamp II' Fabregas the better.

I think we're out because we won't stop United from scoring at the Emirates and we certainly won't score 3.

 

[kel varnsen]

However the point remains - when we push up we control the game, we dominate, and we usually win. I have a feeling we are just too young, too inexperienced, and too nervous to play 'our' game.

i think you are too optimistic. the matches against liverpool, chelsea and man u have all been fairly disappointing. we weren't able to control any of said matches and i think that is simply because they are better than us. as the premiership results also suggests.

we have a few quality players and some decent players, but overall i think we are the fourth strongest team in the premier league. simple as that.

 

[Captain]

Possession stats are pretty much useless without territory stats. We barely moved into their defensive third for most of the game and it was only when they settled down and looked to hit us on the break that we started to really move forward.

You are right, of course, and I think you identified our issue. But in that case (out of pure curiosity, not criticism of your viewpoint) why do you put so much blame on Adebayor? He could certainly have done better in holding the ball. But it's not like our other players (e.g. Diaby or Fabregas) had done particularly well in moving the ball into their defensive third. Our tactical system entirely failed us, and our situation in my opinion only "somewhat" improved beginning with the introduction of a second striker.

Because in that formation the role of the striker isn't simply to play as a human beanpole and stand fighting off two central defenders.

The lack of movement, technique, effort and game awareness from Ade last night was criminal. And to be honest, other than the effort, he rarely brings any of those things.

The players can't move the ball forward because there is nowhere to put it. Ade wasn't trying to run in behind the fullbacks, he wasn't coming deeper to try and create some space behind Vidic and ferdie. To be honest, I couldn't tell you what he was doing out there other than giving up possession easily.

It's not just Ade, I think Diaby is a waste of space too but there aren't many options for the left. If we had Clichy and Gallas I would advocate playing Vela there but the left is unsettled enough as it is.

 

[ricky1985]

However the point remains - when we push up we control the game, we dominate, and we usually win. I have a feeling we are just too young, too inexperienced, and too nervous to play 'our' game.

i think you are too optimistic. the matches against liverpool, chelsea and man u have all been fairly disappointing. we weren't able to control any of said matches and i think that is simply because they are better than us. as the premiership results also suggests.

we have a few quality players and some decent players, but overall i think we are the fourth strongest team in the premier league. simple as that.

I think the point I was making stands though Kel. Against Liverpool for instance, we never at any point controlled the game. We were always on the back foot and it was only Arshavin playing like a god that saved our arses. Against Chelsea we started really well, controlled the game, scored a goal and generally had all the ball, until inexplicably Eboue gave Malouda all the grass of Wembley to equalise. Again last night we were woeful for 30 minutes but we absolutely dominated possession from that point on. Man United were camped in their own half. The only reason we didn't notice this or consider it important is because we had nothing upfront, and they countered well.

The link to all of those good and bad spells during games is whether or not we had the bottle to push the defense up and play our game. We didn't do that at any point against Liverpool, and we were battered for 90 minutes. We did it for 30 minutes against Chelsea, and then collapsed after their equaliser and moved deeper and deeper. Yesterday Man United came at us and we retreated, backed off because we didn't have the confidence to play our football. We are so bad when we sit deep it's not funny. We don't have the midfield or the centrebacks to defend from a deep position. Like Man United did last night, or Chelsea the night before.

Wenger was probably livid at our start to the game. It was purely down to a lack of belief. The problems going forward were largely of Wenger's making.

 

[Captain]

There was nothing wrong with Wenger's tactics or team selection.

He failed to make a real impact from the subs bench though, as is often the case.

Well substitutions are a very important part of match tactics as well as setting out a particular team for a particular purpose- That's why Hiddink will win the CL and Wenger won't.

So Hiddink is tactically better because Chelsea got a lucky 0-0 where as we got a lucky 1-0.

That makes no sense both of our teams could have easily got blown off the pitch irrespective of the 'particular reason' that they entered it for.

 

[Feet]

I take the following things from the game.

1) Diaby's time is up. I've had it with this guy, I'd rather play Denilson, atleast he puts in consistently merely adequate performances unlike Diaby who has consistently allowed moves to break down as soon as he recieves the ball.

I'm not exactly comfortable with laying blame on the quality of Diaby as a player rather than on the unsuitability of the tactical system. He should have been the attacking midfielder, not Fabregas.

I'm not comfortable with using the system as a way to excuse a horrifically ineffectual performance either. It's not like this is a one off, Diaby has employed in a variety of roles, in a variety of systems and only a few times when he's been played in advanced positions has he eveer looked good.
And I've had enough, because at the end fo the day he's not good enough, regardless of the system we have better players than him and I don't even think he's a good backup option.