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Arsenal - Barcelona. Player ratings thread.

dreamLord

Established Member
Song was at fault for both of the goals. Poor awareness. He's not a defender (not even a defensive midfielder imo)
 

nazo

Established Member
sabret00the said:
Shiiiiiiit! if you thought we gave bad ratings: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.barcelonafootballblog.com/2725/arsenal-2-barca-2-aka-whine-whine-whine-screwed-pooch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.barcelonafootballblog.com/27 ... wed-pooch/</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"i understand epl has a culture of diving, but it doesn’t make a dive a right thing."

:lol: :lol:
 

bojed

AM Resident Joker #1
dreamLord said:
Song was at fault for both of the goals. Poor awareness. He's not a defender (not even a defensive midfielder imo)

If Arsène reads this, we might be seeing Song playing in goal, on the flanks and up front until the end of the season.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
Shadow Moses said:
I know I'm one of Denilson's worst critics on here but he was immense yesterday. Never seen him play with such guts and determination. Marked Messi out and totally controlled his area. I demand more of the same week in week out.

Messi's low center of gravity and agility is a major asset against bigger players but I think that it became a non-factor against Denilson as they're both of a similar build. Plus, Denilson was much better at jockeying his movements than Song who was alot more rash in his challenges.
 

ricky1985

Established Member
outlaw_member said:
Shadow Moses said:
I know I'm one of Denilson's worst critics on here but he was immense yesterday. Never seen him play with such guts and determination. Marked Messi out and totally controlled his area. I demand more of the same week in week out.

Messi's low center of gravity and agility is a major asset against bigger players but I think that it became a non-factor against Denilson as they're both of a similar build. Plus, Denilson was much better at jockeying his movements than Song who was alot more rash in his challenges.
Put Denilson on the pitch in the first 30 minutes and see how he would have coped with Messi, and Barcelona in general. Song would have thrived in midfield, once their pressure subsided, and we moved 30 yards further up the pitch.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
lagos said:
This game was tailor made for Denilson. Throughout the all I kept thinking to myself was just how accurate the barca passes were and how bad ours were. Don't know if it was the nerves of our players getting the better of them but the accuracy of the barca passes and the lack thereof in ours made all the talk of us being great passers of the ball a distinct overhype yesterday!
absolutely (much like Porto), he would thrive in la Liga where most teams try to play football, the pace is slower, and less physical...he struggles with the style and physical presence of the prem.

he did excellently when he came on..
 

Captain

Established Member
ricky1985 said:
outlaw_member said:
Shadow Moses said:
I know I'm one of Denilson's worst critics on here but he was immense yesterday. Never seen him play with such guts and determination. Marked Messi out and totally controlled his area. I demand more of the same week in week out.

Messi's low center of gravity and agility is a major asset against bigger players but I think that it became a non-factor against Denilson as they're both of a similar build. Plus, Denilson was much better at jockeying his movements than Song who was alot more rash in his challenges.
Put Denilson on the pitch in the first 30 minutes and see how he would have coped with Messi, and Barcelona in general. Song would have thrived in midfield, once their pressure subsided, and we moved 30 yards further up the pitch.

Songs rashness is always there bubbling under the surface.

Messi was mostly covered by Vermaelen or Song in the second half which is exactly what should have happened in the first place. Denilson provided some urgency (!) in the challenges and presses as well the ability to relieve some pressure by actually making passes and playing with just 1 or 2 touches instead of five. He turned their players wonderfully a few times too, showing the sort of footwork he hasn't in about a year.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
ricky1985 said:
outlaw_member said:
Shadow Moses said:
I know I'm one of Denilson's worst critics on here but he was immense yesterday. Never seen him play with such guts and determination. Marked Messi out and totally controlled his area. I demand more of the same week in week out.

Messi's low center of gravity and agility is a major asset against bigger players but I think that it became a non-factor against Denilson as they're both of a similar build. Plus, Denilson was much better at jockeying his movements than Song who was alot more rash in his challenges.
Put Denilson on the pitch in the first 30 minutes and see how he would have coped with Messi, and Barcelona in general. Song would have thrived in midfield, once their pressure subsided, and we moved 30 yards further up the pitch.

There was a moment in the first few minutes where Messi left Song trailing in his wake in the middle of the pitch, because Song foolishly lunged in, instead of jockeying and closing off his angles. Denilson was smart whilst defending against him, whereas Song wrongfully thought that he could bully Messi. I agree though, Song might have improved as the game wore on.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
wow, alot of TV excuse making and Song blaming for what was really naive defending on Verm's part (it seems Wegner sees it this way), that Barca exploited identically twice......

and especially for the first, Song comes properly goal side of Zlatan. If Almunia didn't rush out Zlatan had no shot to take, as the angle was tight, Song was between him and the goal, and Almunia would have been on his near post.... first TV and Almunia definitely..

second TV's naivety spotted easily again by Barca....Song and TV could have communicated better for that one, but to completely excuse TV after he was punished in the same exact way a few minutes earlier, and both goals came from his spot, is just flawed to me...

anyone notice how Song blocked two or so shots in a row from the left side of defense again in the first half? i.e. covering for Verm....thought not...

Barca spotted a flaw and weakness in TV's approach and exploited it ruthlessly, it's no coincidence the origin of both goals were identical, nothing was threatening no counter was on, the team had it's shape, and the space was only and solely opened up once TV's went to mark Messi who was nearer to the half line than our 18.....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
otfgoon said:
Klaus, Vermaelen was playing on the left. If he wasn't the wtf was he going there?

Frankly they were both at fault, Vermaelen took a gamble on both occasions and left his man. Song should have stepped in and gone in to cover.
and for the first instance he reached there and covered quite easily, and was properly positioned goal side between the keeper and the striker, only's Almunia's bizzare gaffe gave Zlatan a look in.....

I really don't know what you guys want from Song for the second....when TV left to mark Messi who was way upfield, and was't at the time threatening, they were 3 midfielders, and Clichy in Messi's vicinity to react if he got the ball (which he never did)..

If a CB moves up, is it not the responsibility of his nearest fullback or DM to drop off and cover for him? now if the nearest fullback, Clichy is already high up, and the holding mf (Denilson at the time I think) is already in the vicinity of Messi, then why does TV go? I think he simply paniks becuase he sees noone is molesting messi (it doesn't necessarily mean he was free)...

so what are we left with.... Song having to cover not only his position, but also TV's and also Clichy's..3 positions for the second goal...TV sold out both Song AND Clichy for that second goal, who both tried to recover... the goal and the goals came from the left side of central defense...this is no coincidence imo.............
 

Klaus Daimler

Established Member
patrick42uk said:
Klaus, Vermaelen was the left sided defender.

otfgoon said:
Klaus, Vermaelen was playing on the left. If he wasn't the wtf was he going there?

Why do people pursue stuff like this when it's so easily settled by a rerun? Log on to whatever site that's showing highlights and have a look. Song was the closest one to Ibrahimovic on both occations. It's such a goddamn obvious tactical change too. As soon as Song stepped down to central defence it became Vermaelen's task to step up and keep track of Messi rather than one of the remaining midfielders staying deep to mark him. It's textbook stuff. We played like that for the entire second half! Vermaelen is absolutely spot on by being higher up than the rest of the line. It's Song who needs to be wary of Ibrahimovic but he just lets him past both times.
 

ricky1985

Established Member
Captain said:
ricky1985 said:
outlaw_member said:
Messi's low center of gravity and agility is a major asset against bigger players but I think that it became a non-factor against Denilson as they're both of a similar build. Plus, Denilson was much better at jockeying his movements than Song who was alot more rash in his challenges.
Put Denilson on the pitch in the first 30 minutes and see how he would have coped with Messi, and Barcelona in general. Song would have thrived in midfield, once their pressure subsided, and we moved 30 yards further up the pitch.

Songs rashness is always there bubbling under the surface.

Messi was mostly covered by Vermaelen or Song in the second half which is exactly what should have happened in the first place. Denilson provided some urgency (!) in the challenges and presses as well the ability to relieve some pressure by actually making passes and playing with just 1 or 2 touches instead of five. He turned their players wonderfully a few times too, showing the sort of footwork he hasn't in about a year.
Don't get me wrong, I was immensely impressed with Denilson when he came on. The best I've seen him play since Roma at home last season. I was screaming at the TV for us to "pass the ball sideways! Keep the ball for more than 2 passes!". Denilson did exactly that, he was cool, calm and clever on the ball, and he stood up well to Messi and whoever else he was up against, but I think it also needs to be said that Denilson would have been just as clueless, just as ineffective, and just as awestruck had he been on for the first 20 minutes, when they were playing at 100MPH and passing like gods. In fact he had very little positive impact in the first 10-15 minutes of the second half, when they again had a very good spell.

There's not a doubt in my mind Song would have improved immeasurably as soon as we started to get a foothold in the game. To be honest if you watch the game back you'd see Song was actually doing a much better job in midfield than it first appeared. Although we undoubtedly gained from Denilson's presence - his composure on the ball, his ability to pass the ball on to a team mate virtually every single time he got it, we also lost Song's aggression, tenacious pressing, and physical advantage as the game wore on. With how Diaby played it would have been nice to have both of them in the midfield.
 

irishgunnerz

AWOL
Trusted ⭐
Song and Vermaelen were both poor for the goals. Interesting to note that ITV were pointing out after the second goal that Wenger had shocked them with his outburst at TV and his positioning.

Its to be expected...CB partnerships need to be strong and while Song is a capable CB theyve never really played together before
 

Captain

Established Member
Song is like the Vermaelen of midfield, stands out because he does alot of obvious and noticeable stuff but in the end isn't quite as good at the basics and mental side of the game as people sometimes think (and i'm no exception so it isn't a criticism). Both of them will get better with more big games and experience.

Denilson is different, he's a very strange player but he has been discussed to death umpteen times so I'm not going down that road.
 

sabret00the

Established Member
I think that's spot on, Song has improved leaps and bounds, but people simply like the things he does in this team, not how competent he is. They like to see someone huge going in for a tackle. They like the way he's always a yellow or two away from suspension. The fact of the matter is, there are better tacklers out there, though if they don't provide enough presence in the eyes of the fans, they're not wanted here. And it's the same with Diaby, the only thing he's good at is getting time on the ball, but fans feel he provides presence and so hype-hype-hype-him-up. His, like Song's passing is average, his ball winning ability is the worst we have available to the first team midfield and his rashness means that he's unable to press. Neither are great at closing down spaces.

That said, they're ours, and both players are top five quality.
 

otfgoon

Established Member
Klaus Daimler said:
patrick42uk said:
Klaus, Vermaelen was the left sided defender.

otfgoon said:
Klaus, Vermaelen was playing on the left. If he wasn't the wtf was he going there?

Why do people pursue stuff like this when it's so easily settled by a rerun? Log on to whatever site that's showing highlights and have a look. Song was the closest one to Ibrahimovic on both occations. It's such a goddamn obvious tactical change too. As soon as Song stepped down to central defence it became Vermaelen's task to step up and keep track of Messi rather than one of the remaining midfielders staying deep to mark him. It's textbook stuff. We played like that for the entire second half! Vermaelen is absolutely spot on by being higher up than the rest of the line. It's Song who needs to be wary of Ibrahimovic but he just lets him past both times.

That's all well and good, but Vermaelen was playing on the left side.

2ndgoalb.jpg


Note: commentary on pic are not mine.
 

AnthonyG

Arse Emeritus
It's true that Clichy reacted slowly, it's true that Vermaelen left the line, and it's also true that Song let Ibra get away from him too easily/did not adjust at all to the various shifts going on about him and took an initial step forward right at the moment Ibra was passed the ball thus putting himself on the back foot and allowing Ibra to coast in.

There is perhaps some culpability for all of them, but one could note that Vermaelen is on a man and, what that pic doesn't show, that Clichy has a man on his outside.

Think the analyses of these goals has been done to death.
 

Klaus Daimler

Established Member
otfgoon: Vermaelen is marking Messi in that pic, just like he should (and just like I wrote). He does not move upi n an attempt to intercept the ball at all. I know it's not your text but it's ridiculous all the same. Vermaelen is marking Messi and Clichy's got a man on the outside, conveniently cut out of the picture. It's Song's job to keep track of Ibrahimovic in that configuration but he's caught ball-watching. A natural defender would never have acted that way.
 

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