Arsenal - Barcelona. Player ratings thread.

[AnthonyG]

Klaus - Vermaelen does both: he's on Messi and then he tries to cut out the ball with a jump when it's hit over him.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Sure, but he's that far up because he's marking Messi in the first place; not the other way around.

Anyway, I agree that it's a discussion done to death. I'm gonna refrain from feeding it with any further posts. I just think that people who blame Vermaelen for the defensive error are wide off the mark, and doesn't understand defensive patterns. Sure, Vermaelen is on the left hand side of the defence in the situation, but so's Song. The obvious reason for him being there to begin with is to keep an eye the other striker, which he fails to do.

 

[otfgoon]

otfgoon: Vermaelen is marking Messi in that pic, just like he should (and just like I wrote). He does not move upi n an attempt to intercept the ball at all. I know it's not your text but it's ridiculous all the same. Vermaelen is marking Messi and Clichy's got a man on the outside, conveniently cut out of the picture. It's Song's job to keep track of Ibrahimovic in that configuration but he's caught ball-watching. A natural defender would never have acted that way.

Yes I agree, thats why I mentioned it's not mine :mrgreen:

Only thing I was pointing out was Vermaelen was playing on the left side, regardless of whether or not he was right to press up.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Yeah, fair enough! I realised afterwards that it was the "left hand side comment" you replied to. Song was also occupying the left hand side in that situation though.

 

[banduan]

Was writing a post then it became HUGE. Turned it into an article instead.

:arrow: Thoughts on Arse v Barca

 

[Rain Dance]

wow, alot of TV excuse making and Song blaming for what was really naive defending on Verm's part (it seems Wegner sees it this way), that Barca exploited identically twice......

and especially for the first, Song comes properly goal side of Zlatan. If Almunia didn't rush out Zlatan had no shot to take, as the angle was tight, Song was between him and the goal, and Almunia would have been on his near post.... first TV and Almunia definitely..

second TV's naivety spotted easily again by Barca....Song and TV could have communicated better for that one, but to completely excuse TV after he was punished in the same exact way a few minutes earlier, and both goals came from his spot, is just flawed to me...

anyone notice how Song blocked two or so shots in a row from the left side of defense again in the first half? i.e. covering for Verm....thought not...

Barca spotted a flaw and weakness in TV's approach and exploited it ruthlessly, it's no coincidence the origin of both goals were identical, nothing was threatening no counter was on, the team had it's shape, and the space was only and solely opened up once TV's went to mark Messi who was nearer to the half line than our 18.....

Jani..you read my mind and put it to a post already

you would make a very good secretary :wink:

 

[Freagle]

The problem I think is there is absolutley no communication between the defenders and goalkeeper. The only time Almunia starts yapping his mouth is when he makes an outstanding save. Vermaelen, Song, Clichy and Sagna were not communicating at all against Barcelona. They were all stunned and the only vocal lad out there was Vermaelen. That is where I believe Campbell can lift the team. He might be slow and clumsy but he surely never shuts up and that's just what we need.

 

[banduan]

I really liked the Barca rating on that blog. Harsh, but they did screw up majorly.

 

[dreamLord]

Let's not miss Diaby as well, he didn't press Xavi at all and gave him too much time to pick out the pass.

 

[longrufus]

Sure, but he's that far up because he's marking Messi in the first place; not the other way around.

Anyway, I agree that it's a discussion done to death. I'm gonna refrain from feeding it with any further posts. I just think that people who blame Vermaelen for the defensive error are wide off the mark, and doesn't understand defensive patterns. Sure, Vermaelen is on the left hand side of the defence in the situation, but so's Song. The obvious reason for him being there to begin with is to keep an eye the other striker, which he fails to do.

Completely agree Klaus, I'm actually confused as to how anyone can blame TV for either goal, on both occasions he was clearly covering Messi, therefore it was Song's responsibility to cover Zlatan. Zlatan was smart, seen the space and exploited it, Song did not read the danger but reacted to it, which was why he was too late on both occasions.

Anyway the biggest problem was not with either CB, but with the players around them. For the first goal Zlatan is going nowhere, its not a dangerous situation, Almunia actually gives him the oppertunity to score, if he is in the right position then nothing comes of that. The second goal the fault is placed directly with Diaby, he stands 10 yards off, and allows the pass to be played, give anyone that much time and they will pick a pass, I was literally screaming at him to close down, was football 101 that let us down in my opinion.

 

[sabret00the]

Let's not miss Diaby as well, he didn't press Xavi at all and gave him too much time to pick out the pass.

Which is exactly why he should be an AM/#10. It's just not in his game to defend.

 

[outlaw_member]

That's all well and good, but Vermaelen was playing on the left side.

Note: commentary on pic are not mine.

This picture sums up just how incompetent we are as a defensive unit. The most basic rule of a high back line and the offside trap, is that it should only ever be implemented if there is pressure on the opposition ball carrier. If there is no pressure being applied, then the defence shouldn't attempt anything whatsoever other then to drop off. We not only pushed up with a high backline but we also had no pressure on the opponent in possession, ultimately committing one of the cardinal sins of proper defensive play. It's something we've been guilty of for most of this season but our opponents didn't have Xavi to call upon to make the pass so we got away with it time and time again.

 

[JGooner]

Vermaelen was doing the right thing, and it's worrying that Wenger thinks he was too blame, as opposed to (a) Song not covering Zlatan's run and (b) our entire ****ing midfield was letting the best passer of a ball in the world have about 3 hours to chill out, read a paper, smoke a joint and then pick out a pass to Zlatan.

It's called "pressing". We don't do it. It kills us.

 

[dreamLord]

Let's not miss Diaby as well, he didn't press Xavi at all and gave him too much time to pick out the pass.

Which is exactly why he should be an AM/#10. It's just not in his game to defend.

I'm not sure about his position, but that doesn't matter, because each and every player should know the basics of pressing. Xavi had the ball for a decent amount of time. Even a striker would have recognized the danger and reacted.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

I'm not sure what Wenger shouted at Vermaelen after the goal, but it could've been anything from "Do your job" to "You need to communicate with Song better; he's not used to this role". What's absolutely clear is that he wouldn't dream of having a go at him after watching a rerun at least.

 

[russkiegooner]

Song is like the Vermaelen of midfield, stands out because he does alot of obvious and noticeable stuff but in the end isn't quite as good at the basics and mental side of the game as people sometimes think (and i'm no exception so it isn't a criticism). Both of them will get better with more big games and experience.

Denilson is different, he's a very strange player but he has been discussed to death umpteen times so I'm not going down that road.

He might have been a better option against Barca precisely because his assets are not as "spectacular" but could turn out to be very precious in a game where "zone-defence" is a must. As Sabre correctly stated, man-marking is suicidal against a team like Barcelona, you must assign zones to players and they should stick to the plan. That's the way it worked for Rubin in both games, by the way, whereas the quality of Rubin's players (although it is often underrated) is still incomparable to ours.

The problem is that zone-defence implies a great deal of discipline in defence and midfield. And that's something we generally lack and that Denny provides.

 

[qs]

Let's not miss Diaby as well, he didn't press Xavi at all and gave him too much time to pick out the pass.

While thats true and he really did allow him too much time on that occasion it was a very difficult balance to find on the night. In the first half when our forwards and mids tried to get close the Barca players were just to quick to move the ball on, it caught us out too many times in the first 20 and we had to change. That of course meant giving them time on the ball. It was very difficult on the night for everyone.

 

[otfgoon]

While thats true and he really did allow him too much time on that occasion it was a very difficult balance to find on the night. In the first half when our forwards and mids tried to get close the Barca players were just to quick to move the ball on

That's when other players had to be more alert and be tighter to the players around them. We not only gave the players on the ball all the time in the world, but also made sure all the other players we free too.

 

[Anzac]

Looking at the angle of the run made by Ibra = WTF was Denilson doing? I presume that's him between Song & Diaby?

 

[Anzac]

Was writing a post then it became HUGE. Turned it into an article instead.

:arrow: Thoughts on Arse v Barca

Good stuff mate.