Champions League : Roma vs Arsenal, Second Leg. 11/03/09

[General]

Just read an article on f365 giving AW a serve re his tactics or lack thereof during thegame. They said we surprised Roma with the 4231 in the 1st leg, but then repeated the tactic & the 2nd & Roma were ready for it - isolated RVP up front & crowded out Nasri on the middle = no flow in the attack & no opportunities up front. They then concluded that it was appalling that AW didn't do anything about it & that tactics are his major weakness.

I don’t particularly think playing the same formation was the issue. It was Wenger’s inability to make adjustments that caused the damage, in addition to the fact that he allowed two thirds of the game to slide by before hauling Eboue off.

Liverpool have executed the same formation for a long time now and did so in both legs against Madrid. Where they surpass us is the variety of their attacks, in stark contrast to our predictable approach, and the attacking power Gerrard gives them from the middle. It was extremely dim-witted how we kept chucking balls into the box with only an outnumbered Robin to aim for? This wasn’t tactical naivety but a total breach of common sense.

It was one of the reasons I was totally against Nasri being the link man as opposed to Diaby and I wasn’t particularly impressed with the line up at Ashburton either (We flattered to deceive giving people the impression that all was good). I like Nasri as I think he’d turn out to be a wonderful player for us but his ineffectiveness and lack of penetration from midfield was blindly obvious from the word go.

When Robin won the ball, support was so late in arriving that he simply got outnumbered. I personally do not agree with the scathing criticism he received after the game as it was tough going for him, not to mention he really isn’t a physical player like Adebayor. He tends to play on the shoulder of the last defender as opposed to staying central and winning the physical duels ala Ade. Diaby would’ve given him better help and the combination nearly paid dividends at Villa Park. It was poor from Wenger and he simply couldn’t erase the impression that he was doing his best to throw the game away. We are through but there are huge lessons to be learnt. Our mantra of 'the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts' has looked the total opposite for a while now largely due to poor team dynamics.

 

[Anzac]

Just read an article on f365 giving AW a serve re his tactics or lack thereof during thegame. They said we surprised Roma with the 4231 in the 1st leg, but then repeated the tactic & the 2nd & Roma were ready for it - isolated RVP up front & crowded out Nasri on the middle = no flow in the attack & no opportunities up front. They then concluded that it was appalling that AW didn't do anything about it & that tactics are his major weakness.

I don’t particularly think playing the same formation was the issue. It was Wenger’s inability to make adjustments that caused the damage, in addition to the fact that he allowed two thirds of the game to slide by before hauling Eboue off.

Liverpool have executed the same formation for a long time now and did so in both legs against Madrid. Where they surpass us is the variety of their attacks, in stark contrast to our predictable approach, and the attacking power Gerrard gives them from the middle. It was extremely dim-witted how we kept chucking balls into the box with only an outnumbered Robin to aim for? This wasn’t tactical naivety but a total breach of common sense.

It was one of the reasons I was totally against Nasri being the link man as opposed to Diaby and I wasn’t particularly impressed with the line up at Ashburton either (We flattered to deceive giving people the impression that all was good). I like Nasri as I think he’d turn out to be a wonderful player for us but his ineffectiveness and lack of penetration from midfield was blindly obvious from the word go.

When Robin won the ball, support was so late in arriving that he simply got outnumbered. I personally do not agree with the scathing criticism he received after the game as it was tough going for him, not to mention he really isn’t a physical player like Adebayor. He tends to play on the shoulder of the last defender as opposed to staying central and winning the physical duels ala Ade. Diaby would’ve given him better help and the combination nearly paid dividends at Villa Park. It was poor from Wenger and he simply couldn’t erase the impression that he was doing his best to throw the game away. We are through but there are huge lessons to be learnt. Our mantra of 'the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts' has looked the total opposite for a while now largely due to poor team dynamics.

Agreed. Nasri CAN play in the hole, but like so many other options it depends on who is around him in what roles. Diaby/Bendtner offer some physical capability in the role, particularly if you have a 'creative' type striker up front alone.

In many ways I'm glad we've lost - at last we can stop hearing about our 17 match unbeaten & defensive prowess BS!!!!!

 

[Captain]

On the flipside, VanPersie failed to play a 1-2 at least five times during the ninety when it was on; electing instead to go try to go alone or taking too many touches and killing the move. He was as guilty as anyone.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

A Tree is judged by the quality of its fruit.

and our's is nowhere near are tasty as it should be.

May I remind you of a small history of ours

FA Cup 2005.... penalty shoot out win
first shot from Arsenal player : RvP's FK in extra time second half

That fruit was sweet............... not because the trophy, but cause we won against all odds

Let's give the team credits where its due

yeah but at the same time we knew that we didn't deserve the Cup as we sucked against Man Utd in the final, and us unlike many other fans accpet that and don't really claim that as a great achievement.

Pleaes bro..we have had countless games where we were the better but lost. Countless including the very recent ones..against those c*unts. We deserved it just as you accept they deserve the CL last year though Terry's slip would have taken the cup to london. You cant play it double standard..giving credit for winning this and that and ignoring the amount of luck/good fortune/bias ref..that sometimes got them there. Its football. I love how we play but I wont bother me a bit winning a cup with a indifferent perfomance. I wll be just as proud. I wont devalue a trophy cos of the final performance..all our FA cup wins hold the same value to me.

 

[qs]

What I took from yesterday was just how incredibly different our team looks and fuctions without Arshavin and Eduardo in the team.

Eboue, Denilson, and Bendtner shouldn't have been playing yesterday. They simply aren't good enough atm. I suppose there's a few you could say that about at the moment though.

To be fair all those guys played in the first leg where we played brilliant football and totally dominated them. On top of that they were no worse than our best and most experienced players. I actually think Eboue and Bendtner were better than most and I'm no fan of either really.

 

[patrick42uk]

Eboue, Denilson, and Bendtner shouldn't have been playing yesterday. They simply aren't good enough atm. I suppose there's a few you could say that about at the moment though.

Eboue and Bendtner were our best options offensively. Maybe they wouldnt have been playing with a fully fit squad, but they did a good job compared to the efforts of Robin and Nasri.

 

[Jameel46]

May I remind you of a small history of ours

FA Cup 2005.... penalty shoot out win
first shot from Arsenal player : RvP's FK in extra time second half

That fruit was sweet............... not because the trophy, but cause we won against all odds

Let's give the team credits where its due

yeah but at the same time we knew that we didn't deserve the Cup as we sucked against Man Utd in the final, and us unlike many other fans accpet that and don't really claim that as a great achievement.

Pleaes bro..we have had countless games where we were the better but lost. Countless including the very recent ones..against those c*unts. We deserved it just as you accept they deserve the CL last year though Terry's slip would have taken the cup to london. You cant play it double standard..giving credit for winning this and that and ignoring the amount of luck/good fortune/bias ref..that sometimes got them there. Its football. I love how we play but I wont bother me a bit winning a cup with a indifferent perfomance. I wll be just as proud. I wont devalue a trophy cause of the final performance..all our FA cup wins hold the same value to me.

Getting something you don't deserve doesn't give the same feeling as getting something through being the better team. And I don't understand your talk about double standard, if we deserved to win but lost then I'd think there was something wrong aswell rather than say, like many on this forum, 'oh my god we suck'. People really have their mind twisted!

 

[ricky1985]

What I took from yesterday was just how incredibly different our team looks and fuctions without Arshavin and Eduardo in the team.

Eboue, Denilson, and Bendtner shouldn't have been playing yesterday. They simply aren't good enough atm. I suppose there's a few you could say that about at the moment though.

To be fair all those guys played in the first leg where we played brilliant football and totally dominated them. On top of that they were no worse than our best and most experienced players. I actually think Eboue and Bendtner were better than most and I'm no fan of either really.

Yes, I agree, they were the best of a bad bunch. However we know Nasri and Van Persie are capable of performing at a level way above both what they showed the other night, and the level at which Eboue and Bendtner performed at. What I'm saying is even Eboue and Bendtner playing well isn't good enough. Nasri and RvP just had a really bad day.

 

[Clrnc]

If Lehmann baited Baptista before his penalty no one would have found it offensive/wrong.

"Aww..Mad Jens at it again, isn't he an annoying ****?" *hearty chuckle*

Seriously, absolutely nothing wrong with what Almunia did there, I'm just disappointed he didn't do more to put Roma off their penalties.

I see nothing wrong with it. I am happy he is trying all he can to put off Roma players.

 

[Tony Montana]

What I took from yesterday was just how incredibly different our team looks and fuctions without Arshavin and Eduardo in the team.

Eboue, Denilson, and Bendtner shouldn't have been playing yesterday. They simply aren't good enough atm. I suppose there's a few you could say that about at the moment though.

Arshavin and Eduardo have not played enough to change the way we play in general imo. Arshavin has played a handful of games and from what i've seen, actually at the stadium twice, he's very Arsenal. I was hoping he would be more different and I think he will grow more different, particularly next season.

Eduardo is a striker so he doesn't dictate games. He finishes. His finishes so far have been good but against Roma he struggled with movement, first touch and composure(penalty). Again, he'll improve but the main thing is that's he's good for next season.

 

[Double_H]

Anzac

when you attack with more numbers its easier to connect the team
and not feel anyone isolated .

when nasri for example gets the ball and 3 roma players around him . you see clichy or sagana + denilson and diaby around him in the first game so its hard to close down players

but in this game we dont want more players to get there so we dont conced a goal
so nasri with the ball only diaby is around him with 4 or 5 players around them . it gets hard that way

 

[Clrnc]

Watching this match again, we are really void of attacking ideas and creativity. We used to do 1-2s, clip delightful balls above the defence. I really miss the times when we do this with Bergy Pires Ljunberg Henry. Nowsaday we only can pass down flank and keep doing useless crosses

 

[hackajack]

I miss Cliff Bastin and Alex James they could really split defences apart.

 

[patrick42uk]

We were shocking. The euphoria that is produced from a penalties win is clouding this fact. That was a game that we lost control of within 10 minutes! Against arguably one of the poorest sides left in the tournament as they proved by being unable to take advantage of what was a shocking performance from us.

 

[Anzac]

Anzac

when you attack with more numbers its easier to connect the team
and not feel anyone isolated .

when nasri for example gets the ball and 3 roma players around him . you see clichy or sagana + denilson and diaby around him in the first game so its hard to close down players

but in this game we dont want more players to get there so we dont conced a goal
so nasri with the ball only diaby is around him with 4 or 5 players around them . it gets hard that way

Normally we attack with everyone bar the CBs & GK, and even the CBs have been known to bring the ball forward into the opposition half.

What you are telling me is the exact opposite of what AW had been speaking about prior to the match - that we needed to play our own game & NOT sit back to allow Roma into the game - we may has well have played 451 as 4231, we aren't good enough to play a counter punching game, and we aren't clinical enough in front of goal to convernt the reduced number of chances we wouldn't be creating.