Chelsea v Arsenal - EPL - Sun 7th Feb 2010 - 16:00

[ricky1985]

I was thinking of Walcott during the second half of the United game. When Rooney had half the pitch to do as ahe pleased, I was thinking Walcott would be running riot in his position right now. Shame he never gets to stretch his legs when he's playing for us.

it's up to him to create space, no one should get a easy ride at the arsenal

No one in our team ever gets space like that though. Any team with any quality does everything in their power to make sure we have a brick wall to try and smash through (they're perfectly within their rights, but it's still frustrating!).

Reading comments by some of the Chelsea/United players recently it would seem both United and Chelsea feel like they can't compete with us in a footballing sense. So we should at least take that as a positive. Even though alot of their comments have appeared dismissive and negative, hidden within them are compliments about our technical ability and ability to control possession.

 

[ricky1985]

I was thinking of Walcott during the second half of the United game. When Rooney had half the pitch to do as ahe pleased, I was thinking Walcott would be running riot in his position right now. Shame he never gets to stretch his legs when he's playing for us.

it's up to him to create space, no one should get a easy ride at the arsenal

If you watch it, he takes up alot of the positions in which Lampard was feeding the ball for Drogba/Anelka. It's always into feet, in congestion with us and it makes it difficult for a player of his type.

I think it's much more to do with the way our opponents are set up against us, as opposed to our passing style. We simply don't have the same space to exploit as United and Chelsea did against us.

 

[Captain]

I think it's much more to do with the way our opponents are set up against us, as opposed to our passing style. We simply don't have the same space to exploit as United and Chelsea did against us.

Chelsea defended tight around the D of the penalty area quite often with Theo on the shoulder of Cole, just one or two quicker passes and he could have found space out there.

It's hard because his touch isn't as confident as Nasri's for instance but we barely even asked the question and tried to play too much ball through the middle or into the feet of Arshavin which they were dealing with easily.

 

[ricky1985]

I disagree, I think that space is primarily available on the counter. We give teams an infinite number of chances to find forwards in space that way, Chelsea never gave us that kind of time, space, or opportunity. They were never far enough up the field as a defensive line, and their midfield was always too close to their defence, the congestion made it almost impossible.

 

[Captain]

Just for example, remember when Eboue carried the ball in field and fed it wide to Bendtner who scuffed the cross badly; Theo was in that sort of position on the right side regularly.

 

[ricky1985]

Okay, well it didn't appear that way at the time, I'll reserve judgement till I see the game again. In general though we don't get the same direct, early passing options that teams constantly get against us, simply because the space just isn't there.

In these two games if United or Chelsea gave us anything like the same amount of space or countering options we gave to them we would have completely ripped them to shreds, and they know it, that's why they played so deep and compact against us.

 

[Captain]

The thing is though, we broke on ManU not just once, but twice through Arshavin. Chelsea were definitely more solid but we didn't transition the ball fast enough either by passing or dribbling to ask them questions.

 

[DC Gunner]

So what you are saying is that both had game plans catered to the opponents [Arsenal] ?

 

[ricky1985]

The thing is though, we broke on ManU not just once, but twice through Arshavin. Chelsea were definitely more solid but we didn't transition the ball fast enough either by passing or dribbling to ask them questions.

We caught them cold in the first 15 minutes, but they soon retreated back as a defensive line, sadly Arshavin didn't punish them for it. It's difficult to transition the ball quickly when there is so little space, and no one to really "hit" up front, but I do agree in general Walcott is ignored far too often, he makes the most incredible runs game after game, but is rarely picked out.

Remember the Chelsea home game last season? That was an example of Theo's amazing off the ball movement actually being utilised. Unfortunately his finishing was shocking that day, but he lost Ashley Cole 10 times in the first half alone. An example of beating a fullback without ever having to actually beat him.

 

[ricky1985]

So what you are saying is that both had game plans catered to the opponents [Arsenal] ?

It's not a criticism of them, more an observation. Fair play to them, they knew how to stifle us and frustrate us, but they also knew that they couldn't beat us in a open game of football. If we have space, and they have space we'll crucify them, and they know it.

Everyone is saying how inferior we are, but in our ability to monopolise the ball and exploit space we are far superior to Chelsea and United, and even they wouldn't argue that. We just have no way of attacking without leaving gaping holes at the other end of the pitch to exploit....

 

[Herbert Chapman]

So what you are saying is that both had game plans catered to the opponents [Arsenal] ?

It's not a criticism of them, more an observation. Fair play to them, they knew how to stifle us and frustrate us, but they also knew that they couldn't beat us in a open game of football. If we have space, and they have space we'll crucify them, and they know it.

Everyone is saying how inferior we are, but in our ability to monopolise the ball and exploit space we are far superior to Chelsea and United, and even they wouldn't argue that. We just have no way of attacking without leaving gaping holes at the other end of the pitch to exploit....

This is our Achilles heel ricky....anyone who tries to play against us gets swept off the park, all teams play against us this way now, simply coz its the way to beat us.

Its what a certain Frenchman calls anti football

 

[General]

I disagree, I think that space is primarily available on the counter. We give teams an infinite number of chances to find forwards in space that way, Chelsea never gave us that kind of time, space, or opportunity. They were never far enough up the field as a defensive line, and their midfield was always too close to their defence, the congestion made it almost impossible.

Okay, well it didn't appear that way at the time, I'll reserve judgement till I see the game again. In general though we don't get the same direct, early passing options that teams constantly get against us, simply because the space just isn't there.

In these two games if United or Chelsea gave us anything like the same amount of space or countering options we gave to them we would have completely ripped them to shreds, and they know it, that's why they played so deep and compact against us.

Agreed on both counts. Space being the key word here. We are very generous in this regard but never extended the same courtesy in return and we all know why. You only have to look at the first 20minutes against Bolton to see how bad the issue is. It has been the crux of our undoing over the past two games. Space Space Space - we give them away for fun.

 

[Gurgen]

- Nasri played well and spearheaded alot of good stuff. He looks much more dynamic in possession on the right but not off of the ball.

I wish he would do more off the ball. The one time he made a run infield it resulted in a huge chance. Nasri could learn a lot from Pires.

 

[kel varnsen]

- Walcott would kill it if he played for Chelsea.

exactly how? the few times walcott has actually gotten a chance to run at defenders, both on and off the ball, this season, he has ****ed it up completely pretty much every single time. what else is there to walcott?

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Yeah, tactics are BS. Just throw 11 players out there and tell them to do their thing. That's how all the great teams operate.

Hilarious stuff.

Is it that difficult to stay within the arguments being put instead of running to the extremes. Pathetic.

Your argument doesn't make sense. We lost because we didn't execute, yes, but we also lost because our tactics were naive, just like our tactics against United. We didn't "dominate" Chelsea yesterday, we played right into their hands and they beat us handily. When it was 2-0, we were never a threat to get anything from the game.

What was the naivety of our tactics before we went down 2-0? Please enlighten me. Anyting post 2-0 is irrelevant because even the likes of Barca will struggle getting anything past Chelsea at home when down 2-0 and it has nothing to do with your tactics but Chelsea's strength and experience in defense which they have full privilege to execute once they went up.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Walcot has technical limitations..its very obvious that he usually just stays by the byline. What gives Eboue the threat when he plays as RM or FB is the ability to cut inside and run with hit. Watch Eboue as he usually cuts in from the middle and runs diagonally with the ball. Sagna is miserable at that and so is Walcot.

If Walcot has that inside threat he would have been very dangerous but its almost a certainty he will still bring the ball back to the byline.

What is extremely disappointing is he has had 2 years to work on that and i still dont see much progress.

 

[kel varnsen]

Walcot has technical limitations..its very obvious that he usually just stays by the byline. What gives Eboue the threat when he plays as RM or FB is the ability to cut inside and run with hit. Watch Eboue as he usually cuts in from the middle and runs diagonally with the ball. Sagna is miserable at that and so is Walcot.

eboue is more effective from rb than rw. as a full back, he is given more space to accelerate with the ball and run straight at the defenders. as a rw, the opposing full back rarely gives him much room to navigate in. eboue lacks a bit of awareness and vision to really cope with the rw role, but as a rb he's terrific. better than sagna.

 

[outlaw_member]

It always makes me laugh when people see Eboue provide penetrative running and directness from RB and then highlight those contributions as a reason to play him in attack.

 

[Captain]

It makes me laugh when people say he is a better RB than Sagna.

He does provide penetration from the wing but he does very little with the ball in the final third.

 

[awooga83]

It's not a criticism of them, more an observation. Fair play to them, they knew how to stifle us and frustrate us, but they also knew that they couldn't beat us in a open game of football. If we have space, and they have space we'll crucify them, and they know it.

Everyone is saying how inferior we are, but in our ability to monopolise the ball and exploit space we are far superior to Chelsea and United, and even they wouldn't argue that. We just have no way of attacking without leaving gaping holes at the other end of the pitch to exploit....

Thatis fine Ricky but the fact that the teams that have been successful have adapted shows us the way forward. You cannot have a one type of philosophy or tactic fits all. We needed to amend our strategy in these type of games and we have proved unable or unwilling to that. We will continue to lose most of these type of games whilst we fail to open ourselves up to change.