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EPL – Man Utd vs Arsenal – 12:45pm – 3/11/12 | SS2

outlaw_member

Established Member
fabo said:
Vieira would have throttled Santos is he was captaining us on Saturday, given him the Lauren treatment!

It's no shock when you constantly hear rumblings from departed players about the number of people who coast at Arsenal, about the lack of a real concerted effort to achieve anything and lack of pressure. You'd wonder about how much truth those statements carry but they all can't be wrong.

Sadly, Van Persie was right to leave if he had a shred of ambition, which he obviously does. The knife into our chests was the fact he chose United, but they are in the mix to win trophies this season and he is leading them.

You know what, even players like Vermaelen and Podolski who are known as strong characters seem to be carrying a meek and sorry expression nowadays. Both look like pussies now.
 

Bossa

Established Member
I wish we had a player like Ibrahimovic to kick the **** out of some of the players here.

This club has turned into a creche.
 

mavelous

Tinfoil hat aficionado
Glovegun said:
I don't condone the abuse Santos is getting but he should know better than to do it in front of hundreds of cameras, and it confirms my suspicions that he is another one in a long line (Almunia, Eboue, Chamakh, Bendtner) who are here to either have fun or pick up their paycheck, not to win things.

I don't want any more lovely five-a-side players. I want serious people who want to win and I want a manager who demands that of them.

you mean like scott parker? james milner? gareth barry? ji sung park? sure, but do you have 10s of millions to buy average talent?
 

dysphoria

Established Member
mavelous said:
Glovegun said:
I don't condone the abuse Santos is getting but he should know better than to do it in front of hundreds of cameras, and it confirms my suspicions that he is another one in a long line (Almunia, Eboue, Chamakh, Bendtner) who are here to either have fun or pick up their paycheck, not to win things.

I don't want any more lovely five-a-side players. I want serious people who want to win and I want a manager who demands that of them.

you mean like scott parker? james milner? gareth barry? ji sung park? sure, but do you have 10s of millions to buy average talent?



talent is useless without effective application and sufficient determination to force yourself in a game which in turn will allow you to apply yourself and your skillset. Santos is probably very talented as an individual, plenty of technique but it is clear that he is not a dogged fighter, give me a hard worker and someone who'll bleed for this club like jenkinson ANYDAY over the likes of santos, we'll get to higher places with them.
 

mavelous

Tinfoil hat aficionado
i can just imagine, a team full of jenkinsons. glorified stoke maybe, possibly everton. at best newcastle of last season.

what i'm saying is we strive for delicate balance, and knowing full well that we rely on technical ability, we build our game on that.
 

dysphoria

Established Member
mavelous said:
i can just imagine, a team full of jenkinsons. glorified stoke maybe, possibly everton. at best newcastle of last season.

what i'm saying is we strive for delicate balance, and knowing full well that we rely on technical ability, we build our game on that.


a team full of jenkinsons will never let you down through failure of application, sure, as you pointed out, they wouldn't be one of the very best teams but as we've seen from past years, its not technique that we've missed the most when the cookie has crumbled, its failure from our players to give that bit extra to ensure that the job at hand is carried out as best as they could have. I also think the very fact that we continue to rely on technical ability is one of the biggest reasons we've been failing in recent years, again, as we've seen quite clearly, even the quantity and quality of the technical players we continue to build the basis of our play on has been deteriorating steadily, from titi to adebayor to giroud, you cannot have that kind of drop in quality, retain the basics upon which former teams were built on and HOPE that we achieve success, it's a fool's errand, if anything, we're now closer to the likes of newcastle and everton then we are barca or yanited.

We're better off getting in a couple of jenkinsons, rebuilding things from the ground up, throwing away this mentality of retaining the ball at all costs but doing very little with it, go back to basics, start with high energy pressing, improve on our set piece attacking, crossing into the box and only then add a few technical players around that foundation to complement play rather then putting on as many technicians as we can in roles they are unfamiliar in and hope the team clicks.
 

Mastadon

Established Member
Reminds me of the Liverpool song about a team of Carraghers. In all honesty though who are these technical players that are causing the problem? The only players we have that I would call technical are Rosicky, Santi, Jack, Arteta, Arshavin and maybe Diaby and surely they are not the reason for our current problems. Its our front 3 who are letting us down and the fact that we lost the best striker in the world who has gone on to become United's best player and replaced him with Podolski+Giroud+Gervinho who are not technical players. Putting in a couple of decent players with plenty of heart but limited skill is not going to solve anything imo.

In Santi, Jack and Arteta we have a midfield 3 with great technique, the ability to spot a run and pick the right pass. The lack of movement up front means that ability is being wasted.
 

HollandGooner

Established Member

Country: Netherlands

Player:Ødegaard
VAVAVOOM 14 said:
Proof said:
future heroes said:
van Persie could had ended Sagna's career with that * tackle, but no one stood up for Sagna. They don't care.

We saw similar lethargic reactions from our players. I remember last season when Van Persie was surrounded by 4 Bolton players and no one came to support him. He also stood up for Wilshere at Camp Nou after Mascherano's tackle.

Thats because we have no backbone. Could you imagine the same scenario happening with Keown, Vieria, Campbell, Lauren, Parlour, and Lehmann on the pitch?

World War 3 wold have broken out.

Not this team though, no, we're pacifists. If someone clatters or tries to intimidate our players we should turn the other cheek and retaliate by conceding soft goals.


Yes, its even heartbreaking when you look at their attitude currently.
 

evoh_1

Established Member
Never see any of this again.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJG4K1Wlgeo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJG4K1Wlgeo</a>
 

dpt49

Established Member
evoh_1 said:
Never see any of this again.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJG4K1Wlgeo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJG4K1Wlgeo</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We have gone from that, to the pitiful display by Santos swapping his shirt in front of our supporters.

Every Arsenal player should be made to watch that video.

I cannot believe players like Adams, Keown and Vieira would tolerate the pathetic attitude we have now.

I don't agree with booing individual players, but if Santos was booed and jeered in the game against Fulham, I would have no sympathy.
He is a disgrace.
 

Accomplished

Established Member
Just bring Keown and Adams back. Sit the team in the dressing room. Show them videos like that, and have those two nutters scream at them for a couple of hours. That'll sort them out.
 

ModelGooner

Harambe Loyalist
evoh_1 said:
Never see any of this again.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJG4K1Wlgeo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJG4K1Wlgeo</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:cry:

Damn shame.
 

VAVAVOOM 14

Active Member
A far cry from the battleground days of Vieira & co. We were littered with leaders and warriors; now we're a bunch of pampered, mollycoddled brats.
 

Glovegun

Established Member
mavelous said:
Glovegun said:
I don't condone the abuse Santos is getting but he should know better than to do it in front of hundreds of cameras, and it confirms my suspicions that he is another one in a long line (Almunia, Eboue, Chamakh, Bendtner) who are here to either have fun or pick up their paycheck, not to win things.

I don't want any more lovely five-a-side players. I want serious people who want to win and I want a manager who demands that of them.

you mean like scott parker? james milner? gareth barry? ji sung park? sure, but do you have 10s of millions to buy average talent?

I don't completely understand your point here...

If you're trying to say that I'm proposing we splash £25m on on average player like James Milner, of course I'm not, don't be obsequious. It isn't anything to do with money.

Emmanuel Eboue was a f*****g joke. As is Andre Santos. They attempt to dribble the ball out of their own box in stupid situations, make ridiculous passes which put the team under pressure, and give me absolutely no impression that they care or cared about the result. Both just looked like they were there to have fun. Eboue was a play-acting clown and Santos is on £60k a week and still can't be bothered to get into shape.

Football fans will always forgive someone who tries. They might not rate that player, but they'll give them their dues. Jenkinson is becoming a crowd favourite because he works hard, sweats for the team and has clearly worked on his deficiencies in training.

I've had enough of these happy-wappy let's all play five-a-side in our pink plastic boots in an air conditioned training centre bellends who don't give a sh*t about the club, and don't even have the intelligence to pretend to for the ninety minutes they're on the pitch.
 

Tourbillion

Angry & Miserable
I agree entirely. But why has our management staff, which comprises - among others - an Arsenal legend, part of one of the greatest defences ever (Bould) and Arsenal's greatest ever manager - Wenger, who has overseen said legends winning stuff FOR him?

Why is any of this allowed, ever?
 

dysphoria

Established Member
Quicker than Walcott said:
I agree entirely. But why has our management staff, which comprises - among others - an Arsenal legend, part of one of the greatest defences ever (Bould) and Arsenal's greatest ever manager - Wenger, who has overseen said legends winning stuff FOR him?

Why is any of this allowed, ever?


probably because over the years, as the focus of the club has changed, standards have been allowed to slip, both in terms of the quality of personnel to the proper mentality required to be winners. Wenger has become a visionary instead of a proactive manager, we threw all our eggs into the basket marked 'The Future' and in doing so, he has neglected the one called 'The Present'. We're banking on the FFP and the new sponsorship deals without realising that the present builds the future and if we continue on this backward slide, come 2014, we will not be able to command the kinds of sponsorship deals to rival the ones that the likes of yanited have.
 

mavelous

Tinfoil hat aficionado
Glovegun said:
mavelous said:
Glovegun said:
I don't condone the abuse Santos is getting but he should know better than to do it in front of hundreds of cameras, and it confirms my suspicions that he is another one in a long line (Almunia, Eboue, Chamakh, Bendtner) who are here to either have fun or pick up their paycheck, not to win things.

I don't want any more lovely five-a-side players. I want serious people who want to win and I want a manager who demands that of them.

you mean like scott parker? james milner? gareth barry? ji sung park? sure, but do you have 10s of millions to buy average talent?

I don't completely understand your point here...

If you're trying to say that I'm proposing we splash £25m on on average player like James Milner, of course I'm not, don't be obsequious. It isn't anything to do with money.

Emmanuel Eboue was a f*****g joke. As is Andre Santos. They attempt to dribble the ball out of their own box in stupid situations, make ridiculous passes which put the team under pressure, and give me absolutely no impression that they care or cared about the result. Both just looked like they were there to have fun. Eboue was a play-acting clown and Santos is on £60k a week and still can't be bothered to get into shape.

Football fans will always forgive someone who tries. They might not rate that player, but they'll give them their dues. Jenkinson is becoming a crowd favourite because he works hard, sweats for the team and has clearly worked on his deficiencies in training.

I've had enough of these happy-wappy let's all play five-a-side in our pink plastic boots in an air conditioned training centre bellends who don't give a sh*t about the club, and don't even have the intelligence to pretend to for the ninety minutes they're on the pitch.


you make it sound like there are 10 eboues and santoses in the team. they were used mostly as backup options and an alternative. we have sagna, jenkinson and [unfortunately injury-prone] gibbs.. all these guys care and try, why is the fourth choice fullback such a big deal, when said player probably even played a hand in our run to top four last season? until injury that is
 

Glovegun

Established Member
I think there are mate.

Eboue had, what, two full seasons at right-back and one on the right wing? He made 132 appearances for the club. Along with Santos I think he's probably the worst example, but there are others.

Players like Hleb, Fabianski, Reyes, Almunia, Squillaci, Senderos and Clichy lacked the bottle and mental strength to really cut it at the top level. Good players no doubt, but they often looked scared when they went out on the pitch. Literally scared. Koscielny does sometimes as well, even though he's potentially a top-class centre-back. Bendtner's attitude was pretty appalling, and to be honest I think Chamakh's has been as well. No desire to fight for a place in the side. Song always gave the impression he wasn't too bothered by the result.

This comes down to two things in my book.

1. Wenger likes quiet personalities because they won't challenge him.

2. The lack of English/ British players in the squad. People can argue about the rights and wrongs of having an entirely foreign XI (it's pretty irrelevant from a moral standpoint in my opinion) but leaving that aside, I think it gives you a practical disadvantage.

We saw when Sol came back for his second spell the huge, huge difference between a character like his and a character like any of the others I've mentioned. And yes, that's even taking the incident against West Ham in 2006 into account.
 

Mastadon

Established Member
Eboue was doing a great job at right back before we signed Sagna. I was actually very surprised we signed Sagna because we didnt need a right back at the time. He was found out at RW, LW and all the other positions Wenger decided to play him in but try doing the same to Sagna and see how fast his career goes downhill.

Whatever has happened to Eboue since 07/08 does not change the fact that for the 2 seasons before that he was a damn fine right back for us.
 

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