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EPL | Chelsea vs Arsenal| 04/02/17 | 12:30 K/O (GMT)

Discussion in 'Match Day Archive' started by Aevi, Jan 31, 2017.

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What will the result be for this match?

  1. Arsenal win

    23.7%
  2. Draw

    18.6%
  3. Chelsea win

    57.6%
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  1. 4R5Emaniac

    4R5Emaniac Always fresh from Bangladesh

    Not at all and it actually proves my point very well. Alonso is a player that was playing for Bolton in the Championship/2nd division before moving to Fiorentina and now Chelsea in his early 20s. He is Spanish and not a single Spanish club showed an ounce of interest of actually signing him for all these years. Neither him or Moses are good enough for Arsenal or Chelsea for the long term. This is all Conte and his meticulous structuring-the invisible string- as well as maximizing individual+collective potential. I've witnessed him doing it before for Juventus. As I've said countless times now, he won the league without any mentionable strikers unbeaten in Italy and made a confused identity less squad into a relentless winning machine playing superb football. That is how much a impact a manager can make.
     
  2. skip spence

    skip spence Well-Known Member

    A man can admit when he was wrong, good on you!

    Yes, Theo has a lot to answer to for that first goal. Should have tracked Alonso's run. Probably wouldn't have been able to stop him anyway, tbf.
     
    Taylor Gang Gunners likes this.
  3. krackpot

    krackpot Established Member

    I don't mind that and love him for it. bt he does it on his own accord, AFAIK. just because he does it, he (and we) should not expect everyone else to just start running behind him. There needs to be a signal, or a plan for everyone to be on the same wavelenght, and then the press will be much more succesful.
     
  4. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    OK, so he was rubbish and Conte's turned him into an excellent title winning footballer in a few weeks because of his coaching.

    OK fair enough, let's leave it at that please.
     
  5. 4R5Emaniac

    4R5Emaniac Always fresh from Bangladesh

    He didn't become a title winning excellent footballer in weeks, I didn't say that. He is decent in a certain system which shuttles between 3 and 5 at the back-Fiorentina, his previous team play that. And just because he cost a lot doesn't mean he is fantastic.- and Conte plays positional as a collective as well as individual. Its tactical structuring of maximizing gain and minimizing disadvantage of an individual player. Guardiola does that as well with his wingers/inside forwards or cbs.
     
  6. 4R5Emaniac

    4R5Emaniac Always fresh from Bangladesh

    @Makingtrax And it actually took Conte 2/3 weeks at Juve to come up with the best working system. And as I said, Juve were in the **** and majority of the players were either under performing or clueless. Yeah he is that good.
     
    Trilly likes this.
  7. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    Don't really want to continue this discussion.

    But I do have one final comment. These managers you rave about are all at the richest clubs in their country. Conte at Juventus, Pep at Bayern, Barca etc

    There are some really good managers lower down these leagues who will never win anything because they can't buy the quality it takes to win. If managers were as important, as you seem to think, they would win the league more often than once in 13 years like Ranieri, or once in 13 years like Simeone. The sad fact is they will never win because money trumps manager skill by some way.
     
    kopzilla likes this.
  8. 4R5Emaniac

    4R5Emaniac Always fresh from Bangladesh

    I know and you couldn't if you tried.

    Conte used to coach at Siena and clubs like that before getting the Juventus job. Pep for Barcelona B but these managers get there by merit of great work rather than fall into them from the sky. Exactly like how Wenger got here. And nobody denies that money helps but you don't get there in first place without being good at your job being football management.

    Those managers lower down the league, there are some good ones, would never win anything because of resources I agree but more often than not its about the quality of the work they produce with the resources at their disposal in the first place. That is how they either progress to better things, stay at the same level or decline.

    You have to do well relative to your resources. You need to show leadership and authority, flair and creativity, understanding of dynamics and politics along with the mental fortitude of the top level and most importantly the collective coming together of all of that in results.
     
  9. skip spence

    skip spence Well-Known Member

    Yeah sure. But it's not like you can wave a ****ing flag or flash a gang sign. It's about game intelligence and desire really. For a press to be successful the players have to work together. The signal is: if one player presses, everyone presses, especially if the opposition is in a bad spot.
    But up front we have players like Özil and Iwobi and Theo who often don't bother at all, especially Özil. Or Giroud who is too slow and lacks the cardio being too heavy.
     
    Ewarwoowar, krackpot and Ashybashy86 like this.
  10. karl

    karl Well-Known Member

    I sometimes wonder if the team or Wenger have ever even talked about pressing. Alexis as a centre forward is pointless if he spends his time making a one man press around midfield.

    All we heard before this game was about a more mobile front three. Then we see one player chasing around in playground fashion and others looking largely disinterested. To top it off, the player blamed of our lack of effectiveness up front comes off the bench yet again to score.
     
  11. mm76

    mm76 Yer Da

    i only got to see the first Chelsea 'goal' on MOTD (recorded) last night and it was the biggiest foul i've seen in a long time - should have been cancelled out and Alonso given at least a yellow - since when was it ok to elbow someone in the face?!

    but of course Shearer thought it was ok, because he used to do that all the f*****g time
     
  12. Hunter Zolomon

    Hunter Zolomon Well-Known Member

    its like alexis is doing the managing for wenger.
     
  13. Hunter Zolomon

    Hunter Zolomon Well-Known Member

    scrumptious post, this nonsense of squad cost not managers being the most important might be true for wenger a washed up hack, but not a modern day manager like conte..
     
  14. WhatAFC

    WhatAFC Well-Known Member

    Neither iwobi nor Walcott are pressing players. That's why you'd be better off having welbeck over Walcott as not only can he interchange with alexis, he's a pure athlete with very good link up quality.
     
    Ewarwoowar and Hunter Zolomon like this.
  15. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    Then why defend Wenger because it doesn't matter who we have?
     
  16. Penn_

    Penn_ Established Member

    You can tell Arsenal fans have basically accepted defeat in big games. The amount of fans calling the first goal a foul but ‘it not affecting the result’.
     
    Kotikalja and celestis like this.
  17. LGooner98

    LGooner98 Well-Known Member

    Harzard's goal reminds me of gigg's in fa cup semi final.
    So embrassing...
     
  18. DSmich

    DSmich Member

    This defeat was very humiliating for me. I was so frustrated that the rest of my day passed there. But if you look at the good side of things.

    Wenger knows what it will be necessary to change for our next meeting.

    We need change, we can not continue be manhandled like that.
     
  19. celestis

    celestis Arsenal-Mania Veteran Moderator

    Yeah true of course it did , not to mention Bellerin getting knocked out .
     
  20. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    What do you base this rubbish on? In our last 8 there we have won once and lost 7 times. So where do you get this? Wenger never changes anything according to the opposition.
     
    Rimaal and Hunter Zolomon like this.
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