EPL: Liverpool vs. Arsenal- 13/1/16- KO: 8.00pm- BT Sport

[Aevi]

He's playing the box to box role but only running to one box essentially. As much as I dislike Flamini, you can't lay Ramsey's performance on him. I think Ramsey needs to work on getting things done from a deeper position. It's a shame becuase I think his movement from CM into attacking areas is pretty vital for our attack at this time but it's looking more likely he'll be contesting the RW position as a limited winger.

Added a bit into my post after completing it, and it basically falls in line with what you said so no argument there.

However, I don't think Ramsey at the wing is as effective as people seem to think. Ramsey is much more deadly in attack when coming in from the middle. This is because at the wing, he has a fullback and/or one of the CBs always marking him. Charging in from midfield, he is able to breach in between lines as the oppositions defense is marking our other attacking players, either leaving him open to shoot or drawing defenders away from another one of our players allowing them space to shoot. The argument that Ramsey roams in midfield (from RW) to give more options and release pressure is true, but now with Campbell he is completely outclassed in the position.

Campbell does everything Ramsey could at RW, and better. Campbell has just as good a workrate as Ramsey, as shown in this game, appearing all over the pitch defending and exploiting gaps in all corners of the penalty box. He also frequently drifts inside to cut in on his favored foot, giving Bellerin similar space as with Ramsey to charge forward dangerously. To top it off, Campbell is actually a winger, having the right technique, experience, and intelligence to be as effective as he can in that position. If I were Wenger, Campbell's rise means Ramsey's time there is done.

 

[Aevi]

In a 4231 formation, the 2's main roles are defence and distribution!!! Breakup opposition attacking play, and start attacking movement for the team. Yes one can make attacking runs, occasionally, but not when doing so exposes huge attacking positions in the midfield. I'm not sure what else to say, really. If we're gonna argue about the role of the second line 2, I really don't see this discussion going anywhere.

True, arguing this is difficult indeed because there isn't much to argue. I agree with you saying it is about "defense and distribution", that is the primary job description for the position.

I actually have an argument to put forward, but have a physics final tomorrow that I really need to study for. I'll write a detailed post on the matter later this week and tag you, I really like talking tactics and the inclusion of a box-to-box midfielder in our formation is a controversial one.

 

[krackpot]

Campbell does everything Ramsey could at RW, and better. Campbell has just as good a workrate as Ramsey, as shown in this game, appearing all over the pitch defending and exploiting gaps. He also frequently drifts inside to cut in on his favored foot, giving Bellerin similar space as with Ramsey to charge forward dangerously. To top it off, Campbell is actually a winger, having the right technique, experience, and intelligence to be as effective as he can in that position. If I were Wenger, Campbell's rise means Ramsey's time there is done.

I agree with this.

Ramsey must sort it out at CM, because he ain't moving back to the wing now.

 

[General]

Surely Wenger won't throw Moh into the deepend against bloody Stoke .

Have we signed him yet?? This is increasingly looking like a drawn out affair and doesn't look good.

 

[General]

Campbell still can't last 90minutes. He's either not pacing himself well or still can't get over his noticeable stamina shortcomings.

 

[celestis]

Have we signed him yet?? This is increasingly looking like a drawn out affair and doesn't look good.

It's done and dusted , confirmed by Wenger at the presser .

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Genuine question blaze , did you see Ramsey distribute in midfield today ?

No I have not watched the game, just seen highlights and followed the reaction on here.

 

[krackpot]

Ramsey had the most touches, but it was almost same numbers as Giroud and Cech. PA of about 70% and got dispossesed 4 times.

Klopp out-smarted our midfield, plain and simple. It is not his fault alone.

 

[celestis]

Ramsey had the most touches, but it was almost same numbers as Giroud and Cech. PA of about 70% and got dispossesed 4 times.

Klopp out-smarted our midfield, plain and simple. It is not his fault alone.

@blaze_of_glory 4 times eh ? I was under the impression that Giroud was dispossessed the most at 4 times.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Yeah that's bad, and he's been giving it away in there for a few games now.

 

[celestis]

Yeah that's bad, and he's been giving it away in there for a few games now.

That wasn't what I was getting at , talking about the stats in Giroud thread

 

[James Bond]

Campbell still can't last 90minutes. He's either not pacing himself well or still can't get over his noticeable stamina shortcomings.

I've got no problem with it. He bust his gut, he's everywhere, and he was immense today. Maybe we are spoiled that we have this one of robot in our team in Alexis who can run like a maniac for 90mins but I've got no issue with Joel working that hard for the team and needing to be subbed.

Plus his stamina is steadily improving from where it was when he first got his chance. Give him the summer and a full preseason to work on things and we'll have a good player on our hands.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

@celestis , I take it Ramsey's distribution was poor then? Definitely seems needs a passer next to him like Arteta was doing a couple seasons ago, or we don't have good enough distribution from behind Özil. El Neny may help out with that, could be what gets Ramsey back to where he was next to Arteta. But he has to be smarter on the ball himself.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

That wasn't what I was getting at , talking about the stats in Giroud thread

oh right.

 

[General]

It's done and dusted , confirmed by Wenger at the presser .

Just seen it on BBC. Good news. This dude is make or break.

Ramsey had the most touches, but it was almost same numbers as Giroud and Cech. PA of about 70% and got dispossesed 4 times.

Klopp out-smarted our midfield, plain and simple. It is not his fault alone.

It's not difficult to outsmart that midfield and it only takes a few minutes of watching us to see the gaping hole in the middle of the park. It's a miracle that we are getting by with those two in the middle. It's easily one of the weakest pairing in the top end of the table. Flamini is at best an irritant for the opposition and Ramsey's best work is going forward. Our back line gets no protection as a result and we faced 22shots against Liverpool last night which is astonishing really.

 

[celestis]

Just seen it on BBC. Good news. This dude is make or break.


It's not difficult to outsmart that midfield and it only takes a few minutes of watching us to see the gaping hole in the middle of the park. It's a miracle that we are getting by with those two in the middle. It's easily one of the weakest pairing in the top end of the table. Flamini is at best an irritant for the opposition and Ramsey's best work is going forward. Our back line gets no protection as a result and we faced 22shots against Liverpool last night which is astonishing really.

Yeah after the match against Newcastle where they bossed us in midfield not surprised . That's why I said I would be happy with a draw .

 

[natural]

Campbell still can't last 90minutes. He's either not pacing himself well or still can't get over his noticeable stamina shortcomings.

He is not a PL type of player, not yet at least.

 

[Aevi]

He is not a PL type of player, not yet at least.

Oh shut up.

He's not the flashy player you dream of that skips past defenders. No, he's better, an efficient workhorse that gets the job done, still elegantly though.

Anyone else who targets Campbell is getting a whoopin'. Be warned.

 

[Balance is key]

very disappointing game once again our lackings were showcased - our central midfield was a highway and mertesacker is well and truly past it in these kind of games.

Wenger ****ing knew they would attack us this way and did a horrible job coming up with an answer - not to mention the way he invited the pressure at the end.

obviously we werent helped by the fact that our only two players cho can match that kind of intensity were out injured - but ****ing still - we knew in the summer what we needed, once again it cost us points and not for the first time this year.

 

[blrgooner]

Ramsey had the most touches, but it was almost same numbers as Giroud and Cech. PA of about 70% and got dispossesed 4 times.

Klopp out-smarted our midfield, plain and simple. It is not his fault alone.

It is definitely not Ramsey`s mistake. He is just not a classic distributor or holding midfielder. We have to play Ramsey as per his strength which we do when we have 2 midfielders behind him. At present, we just don`t have anyone playing in the midfield. Flamini in incredibly average.