EPL: Manchester United vs Arsenal- 19th November. 12:30 SS1

[redanddread]

Okay - call me an ass but I watched this game again.

The rhetoric surrounding this match far outweighs the reality,

1. UTD. didn't have another shot on target (they might not have even had another shot) after they scored. That was in the 68th minute.

2. The Elneny/Le Coq pairing really sucks big time add Rambo wide left to that and that was an awful hot mess in midfield.

3. UTD. are the most whiny, diving, cheating bunch of ****s out there, particularly that little fcuker, Herrera.

4. Sanchez tried (too) hard but had a bad game.

5. Arsenal did well to remain calm in the OT cauldron in the face of UTD. pressure on & off the field.

6. Giroud's non-celebration was a little odd considering the importance of the goal.

7. **** off Mourinho, **** off Mourinho..ringing out all around OT!!

8. Top Chant - "You're not special, you're not special, you're not special, you're a cnut.

9. Arsenal haven't conceded a headed goal this season.

10. The narrative was being written by one and all to nail Arsenal & Wenger to the wall - they still tried despite the result!

FCUK off - COYG!!

 

[Mark Tobias]

Sick an tired of watching our players go up and down in terms of the ambition they show over a season. We can hardly blame the international break for Mesut's lackluster dsiplay, Having Jenko at RB and putting Elneny on instead of Xhaka. So much wrong at this club it is sickening. Great point in the end given how we played but very worrying that we still can't beat United after clearly being the favourites the last three times we've played them there. It is clearly a massive mental block for both our players AND our manager.

 

[redanddread]

Sick an tired of watching our players go up and down in terms of the ambition they show over a season. We can hardly blame the international break for Mesut's lackluster dsiplay, Having Jenko at RB and putting Elneny on instead of Xhaka. So much wrong at this club it is sickening. Great point in the end given how we played but very worrying that we still can't beat United after clearly being the favourites the last three times we've played them there. It is clearly a massive mental block for both our players AND our manager.

Whilst I understand the disappointment by many regarding the performance, some perspective is required. The team is still unbeaten since our 1st game of the season in all competitions and we're 3 1/2 months in.

Last season's loss at UTD. was galling considering the title race and their anemic form. However, how anyone made us "favourites" for this match is perplexing given our historical record at OT and against Mourinho. Furthermore, UTD. aren't that **** of a side when you look at the players they can call upon. They had a more balanced midfield & attack out there imo.

Although the Le Coq/Elneny CM/DM pairing didn't work Wenger did what many have called upon him to do in tough away games & go with TWO DM's. It's a stick that so many have beaten him with in the past for being naive in big away games.

For it being a mental block, maybe, considering that in our entire history we've only won about 17 times there in 120 years. Wenger's got 5 of those. We've played well and lost & been robbed up there under his tenure but make no mistake, it's an historical bogey ground - UTD. don't like us and we don't like them.

Özil was lacklustre as was Sanchez but they were the only two that showed any modicum of class on the ball - they had little or no support due to our less than capable midfield which had no real grip on the game.

However, despite not playing well and finding it hard to get a foothold in the game, they did not allow another shot on goal by UTD. after Mata scored and kept their composure, heads up and found a wonderfully worked equalizer.

Lack of personnel was the issue - Wenger has to find a midfield solution in the absence of Santi and we also need better options on the wing. Ramsey & Theo offered nothing in support of Alexis & Özil.

I think most agree that he got his team selection wrong to start with but he had reasons for setting up that way.

 

[Jury]

****ing miserable.

I bet the shots on goal list is even worse. We're probably bottom of that league out of every team in England.

 

[razörist]

Looks like we all forgot about this moment:


http://arsenalist.com/f/2016-17/man-utd-vs-arsenal/ooh-arsenal-header-just-wide.html

Could have been a different game if Alexis headed this in. He was so close to the goal. 7th minute...

 

[Mark Tobias]

You know I get that Santi being out gives us a conundrum in midfield but this is now the second season we have needed a solution and Wenger still seems clueless there.

 

[Jury]

Looks like we all forgot about this moment:


http://arsenalist.com/f/2016-17/man-utd-vs-arsenal/ooh-arsenal-header-just-wide.html

Could have been a different game if Alexis headed this in. He was so close to the goal. 7th minute...

That was a sitter. Did it come at a funny angle or something? A momentary loss of bearings?... I dunno.

Edit: He's right under it and can't react in time to get the left side of the ball. Much harder than it looked imo.

 

[skip spence]

very worrying that we still can't beat United after clearly being the favourites the last three times we've played them there. It is clearly a massive mental block for both our players AND our manager.

Well we weren't clear favourites last Saturday, in fact all major betting companies had Man U down as slight favourites to win and rightly so.

Whether that's down to a mental block or no is debatable but OT is not a place any team goes to expecting an easy win. Wenger clearly set up not to lose too, rather than trying to win.

 

[Mike Vinna]

You know I get that Santi being out gives us a conundrum in midfield but this is now the second season we have needed a solution and Wenger still seems clueless there.

We don't need a solution. The solution was on the bench. The only player we have that's capable of a similar performance as Santi is Xhaka. And he was wrongfully benched. I don't know what's up there because it was the only logical thing to do. Elneny/Coq is a negative pairing. Neither can really bring the ball forward in a proper way. Xhaka can. Maybe he was benched because he's prone to the occasional error. I can't think of anything else.

If you couple our midfield negativity with our wings being crippled your always going to struggle. Our full backs are in poor form (Nacho and obviously Jenko) and to top that off he plays Ramsey on the left as well.

 

[Penn_]

Watching their goal again is it Coq that was caught ball watching?

 

[bingobob]

A point at Old Trafford is decent. it's rhe Sp**s result out of the two that's the most disappointing. But hindsight is wonderful. We've played two of our biggest competitors this season and two draws is still a decent outcome. The unbeaten run continues and we are still very much in the hunt.

Given its November and how awful we are in that month I'm not sure what else people can expect.

 

[Makingtrax]

You know I get that Santi being out gives us a conundrum in midfield but this is now the second season we have needed a solution and Wenger still seems clueless there.

Not sure why Wenger didn't play Xhaka in Santi's position unless the management team have discussed this and decided he's work in progress with respect to red card material.

They obviously decided to throw him on for the last 15 to give him a taste of EPL cauldron experience and hoped he wouldn't do anything stupid in that time. In some respects it paid off as we didn't lose and didn't go down to 10 men which we have a habit of doing in big games away. It all depends how you look at it.

The kid is new to the team and EPL and needs time to adjust. Expecting him to play there against Bournemouth at home.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Not sure why Wenger didn't play Xhaka in Santi's position unless the management team have discussed this and decided he's work in progress with respect to red card material.

They obviously decided to throw him on for the last 15 to give him a taste of EPL cauldron experience and hoped he wouldn't do anything stupid in that time. In some respects it paid off as we didn't lose and didn't go down to 10 men which we have a habit of doing in big games away. It all depends how you look at it.

The kid is new to the team and EPL and needs time to adjust. Expecting him to play there against Bournemouth at home.

Rubbish excuse. Mane is new to the city team and the league. Punishing it. This was a clear mistake by the manager.

 

[redanddread]

Watching their goal again is it Coq that was caught ball watching?

Nacho didn't track Herrera's run and Elneny & Theo are the closest to the man. Elneny is definitely ball watching.

 

[redanddread]

Rubbish excuse. Mane is new to the city team and the league. Punishing it. This was a clear mistake by the manager.

Mane? Doesn't he play for Liverpool. If you mean Sane, then from what I've seen of him he hasn't been that great. He is young though but he was crap at OT when they play UTD. in the league but he may have improved by now.

 

[redanddread]

A point at Old Trafford is decent. it's rhe Sp**s result out of the two that's the most disappointing. But hindsight is wonderful. We've played two of our biggest competitors this season and two draws is still a decent outcome. The unbeaten run continues and we are still very much in the hunt.

Given its November and how awful we are in that month I'm not sure what else people can expect.

we're looking for a performance. That we haven't lost is positive but we're concerned that our fluidity has disappeared down the drain once Santi's achilles flared up. Still the team's shown it has great spirit as they come from behind to win or draw in three tough away games now - PSG, Ludogrets & UTD. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that we'd have lost all 3 of those games last season.

We have to give the team some credit for that.

 

[Makingtrax]

Rubbish excuse. Mane is new to the city team and the league. Punishing it. This was a clear mistake by the manager.

No, with respect, that's rubbish. Every player is different. DeGea was poor for the first 6 months at United and people were calling for a new goalie. Look at him now.

The manager sees him in training every day and if there's rash challenges they need time to work on him.

What's rubbish is our fans who think they know it all.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Mane? Doesn't he play for Liverpool. If you mean Sane, then from what I've seen of him he hasn't been that great. He is young though but he was crap at OT when they play UTD. in the league but he may have improved by now.

Sorry, I meant Pool. I am constantly confusing the two this season.

 

[Mark Tobias]

No, with respect, that's rubbish. Every player is different. DeGea was poor for the first 6 months at United and people were calling for a new goalie. Look at him now.

The manager sees him in training every day and if there's rash challenges they need time to work on him.

What's rubbish is our fans who think they know it all.

SO we bought a player with a clear disciplinary record and now we're working on him? How much did we pay for this lad again? Now we must work on him.

In that case the argument should be, why are we constantly buying projects?

I must admit, I have a firm Wenger In fan who was pissed with the decision while I on the other hand, before the game, was willing to give AW the benefit of the doubt. Strange turn of opinion on that one but anyway. But as the game progressed I became increasingly angry with the decision.

XHaka still came on as a sub. A player who is that bloody dangerous in terms of a red shouldn't play a second. It takes a split second to make a rash challenge. There is nothing substantial to suggest a player who has a problem with bad tackles has better control of it over 15 minutes than over 90. It is the same gamble.

 

[bingobob]

we're looking for a performance. That we haven't lost is positive but we're concerned that our fluidity has disappeared down the drain once Santi's achilles flared up. Still the team's shown it has great spirit as they come from behind to win or draw in three tough away games now - PSG, Ludogrets & UTD. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that we'd have lost all 3 of those games last season.

We have to give the team some credit for that.

Absolutely. I've also seen us goto places like Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford etc play with exceptional fluidity and come back with nothing. We've taken four points this season from those two games.

Alexis has a torn muscle allegedly, Ramsey is just returning from three and a half months out, Jenkinson hasn't played for us for over two years while recent returning from injury. We've had players away on international duty some only retuning on the Thursday with an afternoon kick off in Manchester on the Saturday.

The players when asked to get results have continued to do so, if that's destroying Chelsea or late goals against Burnley and United. I'd take less fluidity and not losing over fluidity and losing. Cazorla may be key, personally I don't think he is. He is very important for us playing in a certain way, oddly enough a way that has resulted in zero league trophies in 13 years.

Let's just be positive, absolutely positive that what we are witnessing is the very thing that league winners do. They play poorly and pick up points.