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Granit Xhaka: Managers Love Him!

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by Marjorie, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    So going off numbers rather than cherry picking statistics is now Trumpian gaslighting?

    If anything, answering valid questions with “hurr durr it’s obvious, anyone can see that ” is Trumpian.

    State of this argument.
     
    krengon likes this.
  2. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    But that's not the same thing as press resistance at all...it's literally just telling you how many passes you make under pressure. Which can be a result of loads of things. Lack of mobility and speed releasing the ball or maneuvering with the ball thus inviting pressure potentially one of them.

    Well I was using fbref last night, and didn't see that stat. So see intent at deception if you like but it's not there. Of course I question statistics that in a rather spurious way are trying to tell me something that common sense and our eyes can tell us is not true. That is just common sense of using statistics, don't hate me for that.
     
  3. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    The top three for that stat in particular are Rodri, Jorginho and Trent. I’ve never said it’s a catch all metric as obviously there are some margins for error but it’s still worthy of inclusion no?

    They define a pressure as “an act of pressuring someone whilst they’re receiving, carrying or releasing the ball”. That’s literally what a press does.

    Might be a room for error but you can’t make out like press resistance is unrelated to a statistic that measures passing whilst under pressure altogether because you don’t like it.

    And no, looking for statistics to only validate what you see is literally not common sense.
     
  4. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    Look, there is this old saying my father taught me: "There are lies, damn lies and than there are statistics." It came from some Swedish politician in the 1970s.

    I am not keen on pouring over various tedious football stats compiled by various sources of whatever quality. I leave that to others who enjoy this. I have enough of statistics at work! And in this case I am in absolutely no need of stats. I watch all our PL games and having watched Xhaka over, what is it now 4 years, I have seen enough to not rate him as a player. You can dig up whatever stat you want, but it will not make me change my mind. I can see his contribution week in and week out with my own eyes and I think he is bang average on his best day. I think that others can do this also, which is why I think the stats here are gas lighting.

    PS. Statistics has its place when you are trying to identify trends and developments in large sets of data and I think it has some usefulness in sports also, but here on this forum it is used to support views that are already held mostly, not the other way around. Hence gas lighting!
     
    AbouCuéllar likes this.
  5. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    Good Trumpian example of moving the goalposts there. The numbers are wrong, my opinion is right.
     
  6. RacingPhoton

    RacingPhoton Well-Known Member

    There have been plenty of times every match when he gets the ball from gk, with a player nearby and he passes the ball immediately back to the keeper. Does that count as being press resistant?
     
  7. Vanpayslip

    Vanpayslip Active Member

    People need to stop endlessly debating pointless statistics and using stupid terms like ‘press resistant’. Try watching a match and you will find out all you need to know about Xhaka.
     
    CaseUteinberger likes this.
  8. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    If he’s being pressed high up the pitch then yes?
     
  9. RacingPhoton

    RacingPhoton Well-Known Member

    I think that's the misunderstanding here. Can he receive the ball and turn with a player near him? The best he can do is to give back the ball to the gk or defender. When he tries to beat the press, he is usually forced to make mistakes. We need a midfielder who can take on the press. If you are forced to give back the ball, the person who was pressing achieved what he wanted. When we say Xhaka is not press resistant, that's what we mean.
     
  10. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    Well of his passing distance a higher percentage of that is progressive compared to Ceballos.

    He was also team leader for passes into the final third and progressive passes so don’t think it’s fair to see whenever he’s pressured it goes right back to the keeper.
     
    Football Manager likes this.
  11. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    If I tell you to put a pink elephant in your mind, then clear your mind, you won’t be able to stop thinking about that pink elephant.
    You see Xhaka the way you want to see Xhaka. You have an opinion, likely through feedback from the other anti Xhaka agenda merchants, and you will conjure up things in your head to reinforce your opinion, rather than seeing the truth for what it is.
     
    Rex Banter and baloise like this.
  12. RacingPhoton

    RacingPhoton Well-Known Member

    Hate to say this for the thousandth time on this thread. But here we go.
    This is the problem with some stats. Someone just posted a video of his second half performance against West Ham. Most of them are just diagonal passes. And he takes a hell lot of time to make the passes. They are hardly incisive. If we had a passing maestro in our midfield, we would not have finished in that position in the past years.
    Ceballos makes quick passes that keep opponents guessing. Xhaka makes passes which anyone can see through, ages before he makes them. The fact that we struggled so much to create proper chances the moment we lost Tierney, should show how useless all the numerous passes were.
     
    AbouCuéllar likes this.
  13. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Passing the ball backwards when being pressed is not a mistake it’s a wise thing to do. Xhaka can turn with players near him. The only proof I can give you, presuming you won’t listen to stats, is tell you to watch some youtube compilations likely to clearly demonstrate Xhaka’s ability to turn on the ball and to play around a press. If you dismiss the stats, and won’t even watch him through videos, nothing will convince you.
     
  14. blrgooner

    blrgooner Well-Known Member

    Seriously. I see term like press resistant being used randomly here. I like Ceballos but to call him press resistant because he did one brilliant turn and dribbled past the opposition midfielder is silly. 9 out of 10 times Ceballos tries to do exactly what Xhaka does which is try and make a first time pass when pressed. There is no "press resistant" player who can beat the press every time.
    Having said that the skill to get away from the opposition midfielder is very useful and Xhaka does not have that ability. It doesnt take anything away from his ability to position himself well and enable good build up play by making good quick passes. For some reason Xhaka is one arsenal player whose strengths are completely ignored and weaknesses amplified big time
     
    Football Manager likes this.
  15. RacingPhoton

    RacingPhoton Well-Known Member

    Passing ball back is a wise thing to do for Xhaka because he is incapable of turning back. He ****s his pants when he is pressed. If we are aiming for for Top 4, we need players who play at that quality. Not such dross who can't even turn back when a player is next to him.
    I watch all Arsenal matches and I know how big a clown he is. I know how stats can be useful and misleading at the same time. I am not a bootlicker for this clown to go and find some Youtube compilations for him and shag.
     
  16. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    This is where your lack of tactical understanding comes in. Turning back is often not the wisest thing to do when being pressed. There are in fact times where Xhaka encourages players to press him by holding on to the ball for them to get close before passing backwards. This can allow defenders to lob balls over the press, something that’s highly effective.
     
    Football Manager likes this.
  17. RacingPhoton

    RacingPhoton Well-Known Member

    Not the wisest thing to do for championship level and relegation fodder midfielders. If that is a skill, even Elneny excels at it.
     
  18. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    This is my problem.

    Someone came on here saying, “look at the stats, Xhaka is trash.”

    Then when you question some of their accuracy suddenly the goalposts are moved and now the argument is if you can’t see it with your own eyes then you’re wrong, stats are useless.

    That argument is flawed though because we’ve had four managers in his time here and he’s been one of the first names on the team sheet with apparently little desire to replace him or drop him.

    Are we seeing things they’re not?
     
    Manberg likes this.
  19. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Intelligence, reading of the game and being able to respond to situations are skills. There is a lot more to football than dribbling.
     
  20. RacingPhoton

    RacingPhoton Well-Known Member

    But he is neither intelligent nor does he read the game. He is doing it purely because of his inability.
     

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