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Granit Xhaka: Managers Love Him!

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by Marjorie, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    What’re you on about. That site shows Xhaka to be superior to Jorginho in every way:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Yes I chose 2018/2019 because you can’t use 2019/2020 as a comparison it’s not a fair one. There was the incident, the team was in turmoil and we went through three managers.
     
  3. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    You would cherry-pick Xhaka's best season vs. Jorginho's worst.

    Better comparison would be Jorginho 19-20 vs. Xhaka 18-19, or if you like an average of both of the seasons. Will you post that please?

    That's fair, but what's not fair is choosing Jorginho's 18-19 then, lol. If you're going to actually be reasonable and look at context and circumstance then you can't just do it in one case and not the other.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  4. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Yet again cherry picking your statistics for your agenda. Jorginho or Chelsea didn’t go through what we did or Xhaka did last season.

    I’m done. I win. You lose.

    Goodbye.
     
  5. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    Literally what you're doing, lol.

    Indeed, so that's why I say, let's compare Xhaka's 18-19 with Jorginho's 19-20. Makes no sense to apply context for one player and not for the other, but I can see why your religious fervor and absolute delusion for this player would keep you from seeing that.
     
  6. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Xhaka would still come out better when you consider that all the xG stats take penalties into consideration. Xhaka comes out on top in passes that led to shots (kp90), and expected goals off shots from a player’s passes (xa90), and passes that led to goals(a90). The stats that matter. All of which Xhaka’s are superior I just checked.

    Find me the non penalty expected goals (npxg) and without looking I can guarantee you that Xhaka’s is better, even with your 2018-2019 vs 2019-2020 timeframe.
     
  7. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    xGchain and xGbuildup do not factor in penalties. You are literally making things up. You're wrong. Jorginho's is superior in that comparison, and his defensive contribution is superior as well. If you average the two seasons out he's better too. Literally the only argument you can make for Xhaka is to cherry pick Jorginho's first season in the league and Xhaka's 4th, and compare them, and ignore all other evidence.

    You're living in an imaginary world where Xhaka is world class and press resistant and the statistics support it. Come back to the real world, mate.
     
  8. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    The statistics do not support that Xhaka is not press resistant they show that he gets dispossessed half the times Jorginho does.

    They do take penalties into account I checked their description. For them not to they would need to start with (np). You are blind to what the statistics tell you.
     
  9. Ash10

    Ash10 Jury Lite

    Dude no point in arguing with a cultist
     
    AbouCuéllar likes this.
  10. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    @AbouCuéllar

    Xhaka’s 2018-2019 season
    [​IMG]

    Jorginho’s 2019-2020 season:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, Xhaka has more expected assists, much higher key passes and much higher number of shots. All the stats that start with xG (expected goals) DO take penalties into account, which Jorginho took and Xhaka didn’t. Find me npxG stats instead.
     
  11. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    They don't, lol.

    https://statsbomb.com/2018/08/introducing-xgchain-and-xgbuildup/

    xGchain and xGbuildup are looking at possessions, penalties literally have nothing to do with them.

    Jorginho is better at defensive contribution, xG buildup and xG chain, with the same efficiency and volume. In short, all the things that matter for a 6.

    Now you start talking about stats that you yourself (rightly) told me not to talk about with Ceballos. :lol:

    Ash is right, I'm done. You have proven yourself a cultist, mate.
     
    Godwin1 and RacingPhoton like this.
  12. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Nowhere in that link does it say that it does not include penalties. Again, find me the npxg stats, agenda merchant. You won’t because it proves you to be wrong.
     
  13. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    @AbouCuéllar


    Penalty Kicks
    Each penalty kick is worth .76 xG since all penalty kicks share the same characteristics. Comparing a player's goals from penalty kicks to their penalty kick xG can indicate a player's penalty kicking ability. Likewise, we can do the same for goalkeepers in these situations.

    FBref's xG totals include penalty kicks unless otherwise noted. For xG excluding PK, we recommending using npxG (non-penalty expected goals).”

    https://fbref.com/en/expected-goals-model-explained/
     
  14. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    I've given you a link above explaining how xGchain and xGbuildup are calculated. They are stats looking at teams possessions. As stated, penalties literally have nothing to do with them, just as it has nothing to do with xA. No one is talking about Jorginho or Xhaka's xG. We're talking about their xGbuildup and xGchain. Stop being disingenuous.
     
  15. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Anything beginning with xG includes penalties. Penalties inflate the number. Penalties are possessions. They count.
    I told you to look for npxg stats for a comparison you’ve not even tried.
     
  16. Pyres7

    Pyres7 Well-Known Member

    I miss the days when the only stats were goals, assists and possession. This stuff's like a foreign language.
     
    Mrs Bergkamp, Jury and RacingPhoton like this.
  17. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    That's because there's no such thing as npxGbuildup or npxGchain because the np is redundant, because penalties have nothing to do with the equation. :lol: I can't believe this needs to be spelled out for a 3rd time. There is no such thing as a possession that involves a penalty. The formula is created using possessions that the player is involved in.
     
  18. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Show me somewhere that specifically states those stats don’t involve penalties.
    I looked at Xhaka’s npxg+xa stat and it’s much higher than Jorginho for the seasons we’re comparing.
     
  19. AbouCuéllar

    AbouCuéllar Well-Known Member

    I showed you the bloody formula mate, lol! Your refusal to see things that fly in the face of your Xhaka delusions is worrisome.

    Xhaka's for 18-19 is 0.19 (notice how there is a npxG and xG column on BBRef, but no npxA, because it would be non-sensical, like npxGbuildup, lol), Jorginho's is .11.

    So if you'd like to trade a bit more final third production in your 6 for less defensive contribution and less positive effect on build-up play--literally the definition of a 6's primary functions--be my guest. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  20. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    You didn’t show me anything valid. That link never mentioned penalties.
     

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