Has Wenger taken us as far as he can?

[GDeep™]

Looking at the level of the Spanish teams I would say we are further than we've ever been from winning a European Cup. Not only us, Spain is on another level to all English teams. Engkish teams have fallen behind again.

Generally, Ferguson won 2 in 25 years with a genuine super club, Real over a decade without one, Barcelona went over 2 decades without a European Cup until their glory days in recent times. Very tough.

 

[Anzac]

Agreed with GDeep - IMO we were miles away from the likes of Bayern & RM.
What makes anyone think we could win the ECL when we can't beat a ****e ManU?

 

[entropy13]

Agreed with GDeep - IMO we were miles away from the likes of Bayern & RM.
What makes anyone think we could win the ECL when we can't beat a **** ManU?

Exactly. That's why Real Madrid can't win the CL because they lost to Celta Vigo.

 

[say yes]

So Ancelotti has 3 Champions Leagues now. Will Wenger finish his career with none?

Probably unless he has a massive change of philosophy, (which I don't see any sign of as yet).

Well Ancelotti also only has 3 league titles.

Despite spending 19 years at the likes of Real, Chelsea, PSG, Milan, Juventus and Parma.

 

[Anzac]

Agreed with GDeep - IMO we were miles away from the likes of Bayern & RM.
What makes anyone think we could win the ECL when we can't beat a **** ManU?

Exactly. That's why Real Madrid can't win the CL because they lost to Celta Vigo.

Not quite the same as I don't think Celta Vigo were a fallen contender that RM have a mental block in regards to.

 

[bingobob]

^ It's very possible that we may have.

I genuinely believe that we could've matched Bayern if we had Walcott and Ramsey fit, whilst keeping 11 players on the pitch in both legs.

Although, I reckon if we drew Chelsea we would've faltered as Wenger always does against Jose.

A fit Arteta smashes home that penalty and it is a different ball game. Fine margins but if we are going to win the Champions League we need to finish top of our group. It is no coincidence that both finalists topped their group.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

We're still far away from those at the top. Real's pace and power would have ripped us apart, Atletico tactically would have walked all over us. We saw what Bayern did to us at The Emirates last season before Pep ruined them. I can't see any of the English sides competing with those at the top unless Mourinho can with his bus.

 

[mavelous]

That's not penny pinching. How exactly is 2 million "pennies". If there was indeed a clause, throwing in an extra 2 million would

A.Be making Liverpool, one of our rivals,2 million richer than they should be
B.Be making us 2 million poorer than we should be.

I think some people have their heads to far up their own arse to realize just how much money that is. Forget about football for one sec, that is probably enough to feed some african countries for a year. It's probably more than what 90% of the clubs in England entire squad has costed - put together. It's a tremendous amount of money and just throwing it around needlessly is stupid and disrespectful. We're not a ******* oil club.

we're not ****ing beggars or jesters either. none of your post justifies what's really disrespectful, or more to the point, amateurish - the +1 penny

 

[Anzac]

That's not penny pinching. How exactly is 2 million "pennies". If there was indeed a clause, throwing in an extra 2 million would

A.Be making Liverpool, one of our rivals,2 million richer than they should be
B.Be making us 2 million poorer than we should be.

I think some people have their heads to far up their own arse to realize just how much money that is. Forget about football for one sec, that is probably enough to feed some african countries for a year. It's probably more than what 90% of the clubs in England entire squad has costed - put together. It's a tremendous amount of money and just throwing it around needlessly is stupid and disrespectful. We're not a ******* oil club.

we're not ******* beggars or jesters either. none of your post justifies what's really disrespectful, or more to the point, amateurish - the +1 penny

IF the release clause was 40m then we didn't need to bid above it by anything.

 

[Anzac]

So Ancelotti has 3 Champions Leagues now. Will Wenger finish his career with none?

Probably unless he has a massive change of philosophy, (which I don't see any sign of as yet).

Well Ancelotti also only has 3 league titles.

Despite spending 19 years at the likes of Real, Chelsea, PSG, Milan, Juventus and Parma.

Which has little relevance to discussing ECL titles.

 

[mavelous]

i guess the theory on our inexperience at the top of market did have some substance. we'll see this year, especially if it means we have unspent money/unfinished business from last summer.


on carlo, there is some merit on EUROPE VS league debate. wenger obviously plans for long-term and his teams (pre-invincibles) were built on consistency and longevity than the knockout cup performance. it could signal a difference in style by the managers.

 

[Anzac]

i guess the theory on our inexperience at the top of market did have some substance. we'll see this year, especially if it means we have unspent money/unfinished business from last summer.


on carlo, there is some merit on EUROPE VS league debate. wenger obviously plans for long-term and his teams (pre-invincibles) were built on consistency and longevity than the knockout cup performance. it could signal a difference in style by the managers.

IMO AW's 'player intelligence' tactical approach is best suited to accumulating points over a league campaign, rather than winning individual games in a Cup run. We've made top4 every season of the barren run but only made 2 domestic Cup finals in that same 8 year period.

 

[ArsenesNO1Fan]

Agreed with GDeep - IMO we were miles away from the likes of Bayern & RM.
What makes anyone think we could win the ECL when we can't beat a **** ManU?

We've been close to beating Bayern twice in 2 years. Bayern got really lucky with our missed pen and that sending off this year and we were vastly depleted.

Once we improve our forward line and bring in a robust midfielder we will be much improved. Our problem is we have no X Factor in the final third really.

 

[entropy13]

Agreed with GDeep - IMO we were miles away from the likes of Bayern & RM.
What makes anyone think we could win the ECL when we can't beat a **** ManU?

Exactly. That's why Real Madrid can't win the CL because they lost to Celta Vigo.

Not quite the same as I don't think Celta Vigo were a fallen contender that RM have a mental block in regards to.

Exactly. Not quite the same because results against "fallen contenders" in the league you play in is a guide in the performance in the Champions League.

It totally explains Real Madrid's lack of success. Real Madrid wasn't entirely successful (albeit in various periods over the decade) over "fallen contenders" like Villareal (the reached the CL in the past, now they struggle to do so), then Sevilla (typically stays in the EURO Cup positions now), and Valencia (title wins for them are a long time now). Quick perusal of their records seem to indicate that they rarely do the double against those teams.

 

[infineon]

Ancelloti was a bit unfortunate on the league front. Two of his best years with Milan were wiped out by the match rigging problems.

 

[Jury]

What makes anyone think we could win the ECL when we can't beat a **** ManU?

That's about as * reasoning as Ive read on here. Surprising.

 

[Pies]

Agreed with GDeep - IMO we were miles away from the likes of Bayern & RM.
What makes anyone think we could win the ECL when we can't beat a **** ManU?

We've been close to beating Bayern twice in 2 years. Bayern got really lucky with our missed pen and that sending off this year and we were vastly depleted.

Great example....yes Bayern knocked us out of the CL 2 years running.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Last year we were one goal from knocking out Bayern and this year we were absolutely outplaying them before the sending off and should have been 1-0 up but for Özil's penalty miss.

I also think this Real team has many weaknesses and they wouldn't dominate us the way they dominated Atletico either and I'd have hoped we'd have exploited Real's glaring defensive weaknesses better than Atletico did.

Sign a top class striker, a better holding player, replacement right back and we're not too far off being champions of europe when you combine that with the already improving squad we have. I think we're far more likely to beat the big teams in Europe too. I definitely don't think the "miles off" opinion holds up.... miles off is when you have a leaking defence, average midfielders and maybe limited attacking options..... i.e what we were not so long ago. Now we've got one of the best defences in Europe, Ramsey one of the hottest midfield prospects in Europe, players like Özil,Cazorla and Wilshere alongside him, the pace and finishing of Walcott that so so often gets the best of European defences I'd say we're not far off at all.

 

[bingobob]

We arent that far away. A top class striker in addition to another top class player, when Jack and the Ox improve, that will give us some platform to really go for it. We were ripping Bayern apart until we missed a penalty and then had a man sent off.

We are in a good position if we invest in the right players and have players fit for key periods. That means utilising every resource available spending money, rotation, medical facilities, and using the January window to strengthen or at least reinforce. That may mean signing a cup tied player but then that helps with rotation and gives us fresh player(s) exclusively for the league and UCL.

 

[Jury]

Not quite the same as I don't think Celta Vigo were a fallen contender that RM have a mental block in regards to.

So how is our apparent mental block regarding beating Man Utd relevant to our chances of winning a CL then? Either way you're talking rubbish. Come away from it, Anzac. It doesn't work.