Leno or Martinez?

[Ibadan]

So if Lacazette scores 20 goals in 30 games and Auba scores 10 goals in 10 games you cannot work out who is better until Auba plays the other 20.

That the stupidest comment I have ever heard.

You can work out mistakes per a number of games. If you have a brain that is.

So hostile

 

[DavidHillier]

So how does a number 2 ever become a number 1? What does it take? Martinez has been patient. Has finally got the chance to prove himself over 9-10 games. Hasnt put a single foot wrong. Leno who has 7 errors leading to goals in the PL this season just walks back into the team and everything Emi has done counts for nothing. Your basically saying you will never be no.1 no matter what you do.

That is the complete opposite of what competition is all about. And a non competitive team becomes a problem as players know they wont be dropped. Similar to De Gea at United.

You're right about this (the competition aspect). Emi should be rightly aggrieved if he's dropped at the beginning of the season (or after Leno recovers, whatever comes first)

Seems to be a bit of resentment in your tone towards Leno, though. Anyone would think we had a **** 'keeper before Restart lol

 

[DavidHillier]

I prefer Martinez because he’s taller with a longer reach tbh. That means a lot for a goal keeper.

It's funny because I look at Leno and he strikes me as a tall 'keeper. Martinez looks shorter and stockier lol

 

[14Henry]

You're right about this (the competition aspect). Javi should be rightly aggrieved if he's dropped at the beginning of the season (or after Leno recovers, whatever comes first)

Seems to be a bit of resentment in your tone towards Leno, though. Anyone would think we had a **** 'keeper before Restart lol

No resentment I think Leno is great. He was one of our best players before lockdown. However if a player comes in and performs what I deem to be better than him I think the better performer should start. Do you not?

 

[14Henry]

So hostile

Nothing hostile about it. Its idiotic to not compare players until they've played the same number of games.

You can make % of things from what you have.

 

[KrissKringle]

So if Lacazette scores 20 goals in 30 games and Auba scores 10 goals in 10 games you cannot work out who is better until Auba plays the other 20.

That the stupidest comment I have ever heard.

You said that Martinez had no mistakes compared to Leno.
Leno played almost the entire season and Martinez was in goal for a little over a month and a half, therefore your argument is stupid.
When Martinez gets to play as much as Leno, then you can compare the two, not making half assed assumptions based on loaded stats to fit your agenda.

 

[14Henry]

You said that Martinez had no mistakes compared to Leno.
Leno played almost the entire season and Martinez was in goal for a little over a month and a half, therefore your argument is stupid.
When Martinez gets to play as much as Leno, then you can compare the two, not making half assed assumptions based on loaded stats to fit your agenda.

The only thing Leno has over Martinez is reaction shot stopping.

High balls? Martinez wins. He commands his box. Hes also a little bit taller than Leno but around 10 kilos heavier. Hes a much bigger goalkeeper to beat.

Distribution who's better? from what I've seen Martinez. He also doesnt go short for the sake of it if there is pressure or a better option.

I can only judge by what I see. Martinez has never been given the chance to show what he can do consistently.

Hes played the last 10-11 games and showed consistency. Why do you think he couldnt do it over 30-40?

He helped guide Arsenal to a trophy?

You say we havent seen enough of Martinez. How are we ever going to see enough of him if you want to just throw Leno back in the team? How will you ever see it he can do it over a full season. For me he has earned the right to keep his place until he makes mistakes. Something he hasnt done yet.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Leno has been great this season. Rightly in the top 2 for player of the season. Martinez has really surprised me. When Leno got injured I started to get flash backs to the horror show Martinez put on in the 5-5 Liverpool game. However he is been brilliant since. It is still a small batch of games, so still not sure he can keep up for a long stretch of games. He deserves to start next season in goal. Leno has been unlucky with the injury but you simply can't perform like Emi has done and then get dropped.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Seems to be a bit of resentment in your tone towards Leno, though. Anyone would think we had a **** 'keeper before Restart lol

That is how it came across to me too. Also why else would you say Leno made 7 errors leading to goals this season, when he only made 2. Unnecessarily pissing on Leno to make a point.

 

[14Henry]

That is how it came across to me too. Also why else would you say Leno made 7 errors leading to goals this season, when he only made 2. Unnecessarily pissing on Leno to make a point.

I meant 7 errors leading to goals in total last season and this. It wasnt pissing on anyone. It was supporting my view. Martinez hasnt put a foot wrong. That needs rewarding. He has earned the right to show he can do it over 30/40 games.

 

[DavidHillier]

I think someone mentioned the League cup for appearances this coming season. Interesting to note that we won't be in the league cup. That heats up competition between these two even more. Fewer games, fiercer competition

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

I meant 7 errors leading to goals in total last season and this. It wasnt pissing on anyone. It was supporting my view. Martinez hasnt put a foot wrong.

Well in that case you are taking stats as far back as when Leno joined our club to highlight his mistakes. Yet presumably for Martinez you are only looking at his superb run near the end of this season. Otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the line that he hasn't put a foot wrong - the liverpool game was even this season.

How is that a fair comparison?

 

[14Henry]

Well in that case you are taking stats as far back as when Leno joined our club to highlight his mistakes. Yet presumably for Martinez you are only looking at his superb run near the end of this season. Otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the line that he hasn't put a foot wrong - the liverpool game was even this season.

How is that a fair conmparison?

Because this is the first time Martinez has got a consecutive run of matches. With the starting 11. Not the cup team. Not youngsters. In the actual full team with the protection of our so called better players.

Do you not think Martinez deserves to continue at no 1 based on his run? Based on winning the cup? If the answer is no then it means no matter how well a player plays he will never get a chance. Which is the opposite of competition and we may as well close the doors on the club.

 

[Jae]

The in form player simply has to play. I don't care which one of them gets the nod as long as it's the one who deserves it the most. I don't think Leno should automatically walk back into the team when he's fit again.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Do you not think Martinez deserves to continue at no 1 based on his run? Based on winning the cup? If the answer is no then it means no matter how well a player plays he will never get a chance. Which is the opposite of competition and we may as well close the doors on the club.

I made this post before I got into a discussion with you

Leno has been great this season. Rightly in the top 2 for player of the season. Martinez has really surprised me. When Leno got injured I started to get flash backs to the horror show Martinez put on in the 5-5 Liverpool game. However he is been brilliant since. It is still a small batch of games, so still not sure he can keep up for a long stretch of games. He deserves to start next season in goal. Leno has been unlucky with the injury but you simply can't perform like Emi has done and then get dropped.

As you can see I'm advocating Martinez to keep his place. That is how competition for places should work, if you play well you keep your place until your form drops or you get injured. My issue was your selective choosing of stats and the way you were putting down Leno. In reality at the moment there isn't much separating the 2 Keepers. Martinez is better at claiming high balls and playing from the back. Leno is better at reflex saves and 1 on 1's.

Anyway it can only be good for us that currently we have the best set of GK's in the league.

 

[TinFish]

The in form player simply has to play. I don't care which one of them gets the nod as long as it's the one who deserves it the most. I don't think Leno should automatically walk back into the team when he's fit again.

100% this. Martinez hasn't put a foot wrong at all so far. No point dropping him. If this guy shows the form he's been displaying for the past games he's stood in for the upcoming season - then he will easily be rated amongst the best keepers in the world.

If he looses his form and does an Almunia on us, no worries Leno is here to retake his #1

 

[14Henry]

Big worries about Lenos knee according to Sky Sports. If anybody even reads that based on where half the "supporters" are from.

 

[SingmeasongSong]

So how does a number 2 ever become a number 1? What does it take? Martinez has been patient. Has finally got the chance to prove himself over 9-10 games. Hasnt put a single foot wrong. Leno who has 7 errors leading to goals in the PL this season just walks back into the team and everything Emi has done counts for nothing. Your basically saying you will never be no.1 no matter what you do.

That is the complete opposite of what competition is all about. And a non competitive team becomes a problem as players know they wont be dropped. Similar to De Gea at United.

Very good post and I totally agree.

I'd also say that it's currently, based on the season, not even close between the two.

Leno had some amazing shot stoppers, was certainly performing to a high standard and I was finding myself worried when Martinez jumped in because I've never really seen him getting such a run of minutes.

It didn't even take long to realize that, even though Leno saved us many times, he's also been the or at least a big part of the problems that have led to goals.

Our depressing statistics on set sieces and in general, any type of crosses where I have **** myself because Leno almost never gets on the ball is one of that.
Martinez basically got 99% of all those situations covered by just grabbing the ball with both arms.

I also think Martinez' ability to time runs to get on the ball ahead of the opponent have been a breath of fresh air.

I could probably go on for some time, but many seem to agree on the point anyways - he's probably just the better GK at this point.

And most importantly, what you said, if he does not deserve his spot and chance this time, then you basically don't believe in competition in a competitive sport.

 

[Oxeki]

 

[Rex Stone]

Interesting, did they misdiagnose Leno when he originally injured himself then as at the time it looked way worse than it actually was?

Good for us in a way because it gives us a bigger sample size to make a choice on the keepers although if Emi flops which I don’t think he will, then our chance of a good fee has gone.

If we’re looking at goalkeepers maybe Ben Foster? Bang average as a keeper and is 37 years old but he’s homegrown and apparently a good dressing room figure which is all you want in a clear number 2/3 and Watford might well sell.

David Martin is another HG keeper probably available as West Ham have about 10 keeping options.