Manchester United vs Arsenal | Sun Aug 28 16:00

[Beeney]

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Arsenal are refunding all the away fans

It's pretty humilating for Wenger, the club felt it necessary to take this step.

 

[Rocafella]

I'm calm. There's only so much fuming you could do once the goals started raining in. It's more a stunned feeling. If Wenger has an ounce of decency he'll apologise in the post match interview for what we just witnessed and take a long, hard look at himself.

Ha wishful thinking that.

He dodged a few questions although some of the questions were asking for fists in the face and he also said the priority now is to look forward to our players who will be available for our next match rather than looking in the market.

Well he has come out and apologised, a small consolation, but he needed to acknowledge the support from our travelling fans, which was superb. He won't quit, but I have a feeling groundwork is already under way behind the scenes to look for his successor. I think Wenger will take us to the end of this season/next season and move on.

 

[outlaw_member]

Another thing that hurts about this game is that we have bought a 12m winger, Chamberlain, and we already killed his confidence with conceding 5 goals after he got subbed in. Jenkinson, Ramsey and Coquelin must have felt pretty **** after the game.

That's an absurd way of a youth policy, something that killed Denilson and will kill more players - putting unrealistic pressure on them, next to players who don't take responsibility, sometimes out of position (like Chamberlain).

Yep, Ramsey is being bred in a culture of failure, whilst Cleverly is being bred in a culture of winning. What are the odds that the lesser of the two ends up becoming the better player?

 

[bojed]

I'm calm. There's only so much fuming you could do once the goals started raining in. It's more a stunned feeling. If Wenger has an ounce of decency he'll apologise in the post match interview for what we just witnessed and take a long, hard look at himself.

Ha wishful thinking that.

He dodged a few questions although some of the questions were asking for fists in the face and he also said the priority now is to look forward to our players who will be available for our next match rather than looking in the market.

Well he has come out and apologised, a small consolation, but he needed to acknowledge the support from our travelling fans, which was superb. He won't quit, but I have a feeling groundwork is already under way behind the scenes to look for his successor. I think Wenger will take us to the end of this season/next season and move on.

Yeah props to the old man for making me look like a stupid tw@t

<a class="postlink" href="http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/950707/Arsène-wenger-apologises-for-old-trafford-mauling?cc=4716" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story ... ng?cc=4716</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the first step of improvement.

 

[mistaT]

Yep, Ramsey is being bred in a culture of failure, whilst Cleverly is being bred in a culture of winning. What are the odds that the lesser of the two ends up becoming the better player?

No doubt Cleverly will be well regarded in the coming years as he's been handed all the tools to succeed. Ferguson arms his youth with experience, a winning mentality, and the requirement that they excel. Wenger - well he does more to arm our opposition via naive tactics and weak surroundings than he does to help blood our new players.

 

[Dave_Ja_Vu]

Has anyone else's phone been bombarded with "I would 8-2 be an Arsenal fan right now" texts?

Why do these comical scorelines, which then lead to jokes, keep happening to us? First it was Ar5ena1, after the Sp**s game, then 4rsen4l after the other Sp**s game, now this. :x

 

[abz_14]

Had about 50 or so people via Facebook and texts messaging me that. Quite how they manage to make them up so quick is odd? I know Rio tweeted it some time after the game?

RE Ramsey v Cleverley

Cleverley has been a good player for last two season at Wigan and Watford. The difference between the set of players as mentioned already is the environment they are being brought up. Ramsey started well-but the leg break stunted his development and just when it seems hes back to his usual self we as a team become inept at helping him become a better player. Keep losing, hardly no leaders, just points to another player who seems destined to flop.*

Cleverley on the other hand was slowly blooded in and after two loan spells-one in the Championship and one at a relegation battled team he has learnt the hard life. Now he knows what it feels like to be a part of the 'lower' teams and will strive to improve. I hate Fergie for this but also admire how even when a player such as Cleverley, Hernandez or at a push Macheda-play well he is not afraid to bench them the following game.

*I really do hope that Ramsey can use this season as the springboard to become a great player, would help us a lot and would finally give Wales an talismanic centre midfielder.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Has anyone else's phone been bombarded with "I would 8-2 be an Arsenal fan right now" texts?

Why do these comical scorelines, which then lead to jokes, keep happening to us? First it was Ar5ena1, after the Sp**s game, then 4rsen4l after the other Sp**s game, now this. :x

I had a guy on facebook ask me the score for the game. Before answering, I reminded him that Leeds United (his team) would love to be beaten 8-2 in the premier league as that means they're actually IN the premier league.

Suddenly didn't seem too funny any more.

 

[ricky1985]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

 

[mistaT]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

He may be more talented, but as is becoming increasingly clear in games against United their players are much better prepared to execute.

At the end of the day, and certainly in the premier league, talent alone doesn't win games.

 

[Invincible]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

No he isn't. Cleverley is every bit as talented as Ramsey is.

I've no idea why you keep overrating our players whilst at the same dismissing our rivals. The way you go on one would think we have the best squad in the world, when currenly we're not even top 4 material.

 

[Emma Lusa]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

Based on what exactly? Cleverley has a 90% pass completion rate this season Ramsey is below 80% (which is very poor for any CM) never mind comparing goals and assists. Just because he wears an Arsenal shirt doesn't make him a better player ... support him of course but stick to the facts.

 

[DanDare]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

Based on what exactly? Cleverley has a 90% pass completion rate this season Ramsey is below 80% (which is very poor for any CM) never mind comparing goals and assists. Just because he wears an Arsenal shirt doesn't make him a better player ... support him of course but stick to the facts.

Klasnic has scored more goals than Van Persie this season, he's a better striker.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

Agree completely.


Ramsey has done well in his last couple of games (compare that to his game against Benfica where he's been really poor), and with more minutes under his belt, he'll come really good.
This guy got his leg destroyed one and a half years ago, everyone who expects him to be a world beater by now is demanding too much.

Cleverly had the benefit, that he didn't get his leg snapped in the past, therefore it now looks as if he's better than Ramsey, but that's just a snap-shot.
And Anderson.........oh dear.

 

[Kain]

Not a fan of the player v player debates, they become tedious, real fast.

Ramsey is a couple of years younger than Cleverly, yet he has played and participated in more competitive games than the United player. Ramsey was promoted to captain his country, he is one of the youngest international captains in the world and is officially the youngest captain ever for Wales. He also scored the winner last season against Man Utd, one of the only wins we’ve been able to achieve in this dire post CC final relegation form. Ramsey also played every minute of every game this month bar 1 minuet at the end of the Newcastle Utd oppening fixture, due to suspensions and injuries in our squad, including two must win CL qualifiers and the two tough league opponents in Liverpool & Man Utd.

All the above is Rafa Benitez-esque facht, and even then Cleverly & Anderson still didn’t look that much better than Ramsey, if at all, having the luxury of playing for a team bolstered by quality transfer additions on a high from their opening months form, whilst playing at Home with their favourite referee. Meanwhile we have been at our lowest ebb for decades & he has been returning from a career threatening injury. Fact.

 

[The Sleeper]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

Based on what exactly? Cleverley has a 90% pass completion rate this season Ramsey is below 80% (which is very poor for any CM) never mind comparing goals and assists. Just because he wears an Arsenal shirt doesn't make him a better player ... support him of course but stick to the facts.

We suck at pressing. Man Utd don't. Our attacking system is flawed. Man Utd's isn't. Try and imagine Ramsey in this Utd team for a second and how different it would be.

Statistics lie big-time. For example, I saw a pass aimed at RvP. RvP was closer to the ball than the Man Utd player, but he didn't move, he just waited for the ball to reach his feet. The Man Utd player simply stepped in front and intercepted the pass. Was that a bad pass? No. Then you have nice through balls for one of our forwards but they suddenly decide to run in the opposite direction just when the pass is made, and so the pass is never completed. Bad pass? No.

 

[TakeChillPill]

For me Ramesy has one seriously bad habit...he takes too long to release the ball..its that simple...the one 2 touch passing seems to be none exisitant in his game.

 

[ricky1985]

Honestly, Ramsey is so much better than Cleverly (and Anderson for that matter) that's its not even funny. Different levels of class entirely, even yesterday it was as clear as day.

Based on what exactly? Cleverley has a 90% pass completion rate this season Ramsey is below 80% (which is very poor for any CM) never mind comparing goals and assists. Just because he wears an Arsenal shirt doesn't make him a better player ... support him of course but stick to the facts.

Please don't throw meaningless stats at me. I watched Cleverly like a hawk on Sunday and there is nothing outstanding or special there at all. He has decent touch, is pretty switched on and alert and has a decent short passing game, he can't tackle, he doesn't compete well, he has no passing range at all, he has questionable technique, has no power or strength, not aware of what's ahead of him, takes too long too see forward passes, nothing special at all.

Ramsey's passing, vision and awareness are all on a different level completely. Their respective threats in the final third is also completely incomparable. Ramsey's bigger, stronger, competes better, and is still not at 100% after his terrible injury. In short, he's just a vastly superior player and will be as their careers progress. I'd bet money on it.

Put Cleverly in our side on Sunday and he would have floundered. Put Ramsey in United's team and he would have looked a world beater.

 

[progman07]

Ramsey is plain overrated, and has been before his injury. He isn't that good in passing, cannot defend, and he isn't anything special physically either. That doesn't relate to his injury, he was misplacing passes way before that stoke incident.

We have one world class talent in his position, and that's Wilshere.

 

[fabo]

Ramsey is so slow on the ball these days, needs an eternity to see the pass and let it off.

Another mediocre game from him, hope that rot stops soon.