Merci Arsène

[Makingtrax]

But Liverpool spent £9M last year and City spent £140M. Therefore going by your logic considering the point difference the season prior City should've romped to the league title. But it was actually the complete opposite.

Also I'm not cherry picking. From 2000-2013 Fergie won 7 premier league titles. In the same period Chelsea spent 950M, City 750M and Liverpool 625M. United spent less than all of those teams but won 7, yes 7 titles.

There's a lot of facts here saying that spend isn't the be all and end all you know. The facts are from 2013 as a club Arsenal have spent £700M on footballers. Now I'd personally say that's enough to build a title challenging team.

Your just trolling again.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Your just trolling again.

As soon as you get a point thats against yours that is actually half decent you cant respond. You just say its trolling?

**** off.

 

[krengon]

If I’m being completely honest with myself everything I loved about this club died when Wenger left, it’s just not the same anymore.. I hate what we’ve become, desperately trying to find something, anything to have a real connection with again.

 

[GDeep™]

If I’m being completely honest with myself everything I loved about this club died when Wenger left, it’s just not the same anymore.. I hate what we’ve become, desperately trying to find something, anything to have a real connection with again.

Me too. Problem is I have seen other fans of other clubs say stuff like this from 20-30 years ago, like Liverpool, Sp**s, Newcastle, Milan etc, and I don’t have the energy for that.

 

[krackpot]

Can we get him back for half a season please?!?

Let the great man guide Mikel, and show him how AFC plays football.

 

[Harz]

We didn't get in the situation we've gotten ourselves in only because of Arteta and Emery. The seeds were planted much earlier than 2018.

Goes without saying he's a better coach than both of them. Doesn't mean he's faultless.

 

[Makingtrax]

We didn't get in the situation we've gotten ourselves in only because of Arteta and Emery. The seeds were planted much earlier than 2018.

Goes without saying he's a better coach than both of them. Doesn't mean he's faultless.

Absolutely right this started in 2016 when the fan campaign of boycotts, planes, protests and rants put intolerable pressure on the team and management causing us to decline. It was no coincidence that Wenger dropped out of the top4 for the first time in 20 years when all that started.

 

[Makingtrax]

If I’m being completely honest with myself everything I loved about this club died when Wenger left, it’s just not the same anymore.. I hate what we’ve become, desperately trying to find something, anything to have a real connection with again.

It was a deeply sad day.

 

[Harz]

Absolutely right this started in 2016 when the fan campaign of boycotts, planes, protests and rants put intolerable pressure on the team and management causing us to decline. It was no coincidence that Wenger dropped out of the top4 for the first time in 20 years when all that started.

Yeah right, how dare fans protest in a situation where a top three side in terms of budget and reputation didn't win a major trophy in 12 years save for a few domestic cups. In the same time span, Leicester City won the league, and Wigan & Portsmouth matched our best silverware.

If anything, the fanbase reaction wasn't quick enough.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yeah right, how dare fans protest in a situation where a top three side in terms of budget and reputation didn't win a major trophy in 12 years save for a few domestic cups. In the same time span, Leicester City won the league, and Wigan & Portsmouth matched our best silverware.

If anything, the fanbase reaction wasn't quick enough.

Bullsh!t You're completely misinformed.We weren't ever a top three side in terms of budget. Here's the spending for the last 10 years. I suggest you read it. Leicester have won the league once in 140 years, Sp**s not since 1961 and we've won it 3 times in the last 20 years on a lower spend. Wigan and Portsmouth? This is exactly why we're in this mess because gullible fans believed that an excellent manager was doing mediocre stuff through fake news, and worked hard to undermine him. The fans have ruined this club through forcing major change when the club was doing well and far from ready.

 

[Harz]

Bullsh!t You're completely misinformed.We weren't ever a top three side in terms of budget. Here's the spending for the last 10 years. I suggest you read it. Leicester have won the league once in 140 years, Sp**s not since 1961 and we've won it 3 times in the last 20 years on a lower spend. Wigan and Portsmouth? This is exactly why we're in this mess because gullible fans believed that an excellent manager was doing mediocre stuff through fake news, and worked hard to undermine him. The fans have ruined this club through forcing major change when the club was doing well and far from ready.

I never said a top three side in terms of net spend -- I was talking about the bigger picture like wage budget, reputation & pulling power. You are right about the dates, though.

2007 is when it all started, when David Dein left.

The fact that Leicester didn't have the pedigree makes it even worse for Arsène -- it wasn't even a proper opponent.

I don't know why you bring Sp**s into the discussion but Arsène apologists love to use the new-stadium-and-not-enough-backing as an excuse but look at where they are now with proper management.

What did Wenger do in the 8 years when the fans didn't (allegedly) undermine him?

 

[Makingtrax]

I never said a top three side in terms of net spend -- I was talking about the bigger picture like wage budget, reputation & pulling power. You are right about the dates, though.

2007 is when it all started, when David Dein left.

The fact that Leicester didn't have the pedigree makes it even worse for Arsène -- it wasn't even a proper opponent.

I don't know why you bring Sp**s into the discussion but Arsène apologists love to use the new-stadium-and-not-enough-backing as an excuse but look at where they are now with proper management.

What did Wenger do in the 8 years when the fans didn't (allegedly) undermine him?

Excuse for what? Arsène’s metrics were superb. 2015/16, he beat United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool with Klopp, Sp**s with Poch, all outspending him and all with fewer injuries. Bet not one of them lost their best player (Cazorla) in November. He beat beat Leicester home and away, had the most clean sheets, second most goals against, best xG for, best xG against and a huge goal difference of around 30. Only fools thought that was grounds to remove him. But we had those in abundance thanks to AFTV.

And I brought Sp**s into it because they spent more than us and won absolutely nothing, that’s a fat 0. Arsène won 3EPL titles, 7 FACups . . that’s a trophy every other year on average.

 

[Harz]

Excuse for what? Arsène’s metrics were superb. 2015/16, he beat United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool with Klopp, Sp**s with Poch, all outspending him and all with fewer injuries. Bet not one of them lost their best player (Cazorla) in November. He beat beat Leicester home and away, had the most clean sheets, second most goals against, best xG for, best xG against and a huge goal difference of around 30. Only fools thought that was grounds to remove him. But we had those in abundance thanks to AFTV.

And I brought Sp**s into it because they spent more than us and won absolutely nothing, that’s a fat 0. Arsène won 3EPL titles, 7 FACups . . that’s a trophy every other year on average.

For a club of Arsenal's stature, the only metric that matters is the number of major trophies won.

Yeah 2015/16 was Arsène's best season post-2005, a season where he lost the title race to Leicester City ffs. A sesaon where Chelsea imploded, Man Utd were in post-SAF shambles, and Man City & Liverpool were in rebuild.

The stat you made up, "trophies on average", is literally why he should've been sacked earlier. In his last 13 years -- more than a decade mind you -- he won 3 FA cups, a whopping 0.2308 trophies every year!

It's still shambolic even if we ignore the fact that the FA cup is a lesser honor.

 

[Makingtrax]

For a club of Arsenal's stature, the only metric that matters is the number of major trophies won.

Yeah 2015/16 was Arsène's best season post-2005, a season where he lost the title race to Leicester City ffs. A sesaon where Chelsea imploded, Man Utd were in post-SAF shambles, and Man City & Liverpool were in rebuild.

The stat you made up, "trophies on average", is literally why he should've been sacked earlier. In his last 13 years -- more than a decade mind you -- he won 3 FA cups, a whopping 0.2308 trophies every year!

It's still shambolic even if we ignore the fact that the FA cup is a lesser honor.

There's only been one club in the whole history of the Premier League that has won the title spending outside the top 3. Leicester. And they had to wait 140 years to do that, in a freak year where all the major clubs including Arsenal had problems. We've been no where near the top 3. You're just showing you know nothing about how football works.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Nah, anyone slighting Arsène on anything is just wrong. Perfect person.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Just looks better and better in hindsight too. Only 3 FA Cups in the last part of his time here? We'll be lucky to win three more games this season.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

The outcome of the post-wenger years does not mean that decision itself to let him go was a faulty one, imo.

It seemed like it was untenable for him to stay on, for a number of reasons. So yes, at the time it seemed right.

In hindsight... I dunno. Probably the answer is that the club simply had to make better decisions after he left, but I do think that if he'd stayed we'd be in a better place than we are now.

 

[Harz]

There's only been one club in the whole history of the Premier League that has won the title spending outside the top 3. Leicester. And they had to wait 140 years to do that, in a freak year where all the major clubs including Arsenal had problems. We've been no where near the top 3. You're just showing you know nothing about how football works.

What do you exactly mean by top 3 spenders? Do you mean top 3 in terms of seasonal net spend? It's a daft indicator but you are simply factually wrong. Last season Liverpool was "bottom 2" by this logic and they easily won the title.

You can make up excuses all day long and make up stats to fit your narrative but at the end of the day the latter half of Arsène Wenger's tenure is lackluster by the very own standards he set earlier. For a long while he barely met expectations and used up whatever credit he mustered in his earlier legendary years.

We should've moved for top coaches like Guardiola, Klopp etc. when they became available but failure to act quickly lead to the transition crisis we're in right now.

 

[Makingtrax]

What do you exactly mean by top 3 spenders? Do you mean top 3 in terms of seasonal net spend? It's a daft indicator but you are simply factually wrong. Last season Liverpool was "bottom 2" by this logic and they easily won the title.

You can make up excuses all day long and make up stats to fit your narrative but at the end of the day the latter half of Arsène Wenger's tenure is lackluster by the very own standards he set earlier. For a long while he barely met expectations and used up whatever credit he mustered in his earlier legendary years.

We should've moved for top coaches like Guardiola, Klopp etc. when they became available but failure to act quickly lead to the transition crisis we're in right now.

I'm not making excuses, Arsène over achieved by every measurable metric for his spend. The fact that you can't see that and are measuring him against your own made up standards doesn't really interest me any more.

Last season Liverpool were in the top 3 in the UK and top 7 in Europe for the amount of money they'd spent assembling that squad. The figures are here.

https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2019/wp266/en/

 

[Makingtrax]

Yeah. We would all have loved for him to go out on better terms, the FA-cup 2015 or 2017 would have been good.
It was untenable because we were stagnating, we were not taking the next step as we should have had. From my point of view, this stands regardless of how miserable we have been in the post-wenger years.
The decision was right, what we have done after as a club both in hirings and in structure highly questionable.

The club never invested more than 5th in the league on the squad, yet Wenger achieved top 4 with it every year. Fact. That’s over achieving. Now if you’re calling that stagnation because he wasn’t winning titles like those teams being given top 3 investment then you’re just twisting the English language instead of judging a manager fairly. Simple as.