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Messi vs. Ronaldo

Who is the superior footballer?

  • Total voters
    94
Batman

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
misko said:
You're right Ronaldo was good with MU but he won "only" 1 CL. The main and the only argument used to say that Ronaldo is better than Messi it's that he won more important trophies and he's more decisive. It's why I explain to you that Ronaldo was awful, one of the worse player in his team in 3 CL' finals of 5 won. He was also decisive only 2 games of 6 and didn't play the final at the Euro 2016.
So it proves that he's not really the key player of Real Madrid and Portugal successes, so this argument is wrong.

If we talk about games between both of them, Messi is better, he won a CL final against Ronaldo and was decisive, he humiliated Real Madrid and Ronaldo in 2011 CL semi-finals at Santiago Bernabeu. MU also won against Barcelona in 2008 CL semi-finals but Scholes was the scorer.
In La Liga so many humiliations, 5-0, and recently 3-2 and 3-0 at Bernabeu... I have also an interresting statistics to highlight the Messi's domination. Ronaldo has lose 12 times in Clasico, Messi 10 times whereas he has played more games.
And during nine years spent by Ronaldo at Madrid he won 2 Liga, Messi and Barcelona 6, what a difference...

And we all know that Messi have more influence in Barcelona than Ronaldo at Madrid, Messi is a great scorer, great dribbler, great attacking miedfield whereas Ronaldo is a great scorer but a average player in other domains, but even statistics show that Ronaldo isn't really the key player in Real Madrid CL' and Portugal successes. So I don't know why people keep comparing both of them, Messi is clearly better.
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Mate, no. This is the worst, most nonsensical argument anyone has made in this thread. At least everyone else I've debated this with has been logical. You're going in circles of hypocrisy. Now CR7 "only" has one CL with Man United. That "only" 1 is still 1 more than Messi has outside of the Barca cocoon. You're trying to make the argument that Messi is better than CR7 because he's somehow been more decisive in Finals when he's been statistically worse both in the run up to finals and in finals themselves and has less victories in them. Just stop. I'm sure someone could make a compelling version of this argument but it is not you my friend.
 
M

misko

Member
Batman said:
Mate, no. This is the worst, most nonsensical argument anyone has made in this thread. At least everyone else I've debated this with has been logical. You're going in circles of hypocrisy. Now CR7 "only" has one CL with Man United. That "only" 1 is still 1 more than Messi has outside of the Barca cocoon. You're trying to make the argument that Messi is better than CR7 because he's somehow been more decisive in Finals when he's been statistically worse both in the run up to finals and in finals themselves and has less victories in them. Just stop. I'm sure someone could make a compelling version of this argument but it is not you my friend.
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So you didn't understand my post and you didnt't reply to all my arguments...why ?
Ronaldo has more important trophies than Messi, it's a fact. I'm just talking about Ronaldo's importance in these trophies. It's not because Ronaldo wins trophies, that he is the main player on it.

I mean Real Madrid won CL without a good Ronaldo in semi-finals and finals in 2016, 2018, they won the CL 2014 without a good Ronaldo in final. Same at the Euro 2016 Ronaldo didn't play the final Portugal won without him. So my question is : Why do you keep acting like Ronaldo carried Real Madrid and Portugal ? Marcelo, Ramos and Modric especially did good performance also.
It's simple, statistics prove that Ronaldo is not always decisive, and he did most of the time poor performances. It's not enough to be considered as the best player in the world, sorry.
 
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kofigunner

kofigunner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I think this discussion has gone on for so long because there are not as many truly world class players at the moment, as compared to other eras. Ronaldo and Messi are two players that will certainly go down in history as some of the best to have ever played, no doubt, and their stats will back them up. I just wonder if it had been in the Barazil Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rivaldo era, for example, whether this discussion would be as polarizing. Even though they play different position and Messi obviously is more involved, they’re both super fun to watch. I don’t see a Michael Jordan situation where there is one very obviously superior player. Enjoy these particular 2 whilst their careers last!
 
Toby

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
kofigunner said:
I think this discussion has gone on for so long because there are not as many truly world class players at the moment, as compared to other eras.
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Are Messi and Ronaldo so above everyone else that other contemporary players who would otherwise qualify as worldclass seem "worse"? Or is it that there actually are less outstanding worldclass players who are able to perform consistently over consecutive seasons?

I think what should be considered is surely that both are primarily put into use and positions to score, with their respective teams working around/for them. Messi seems a bit more involved in build up play, but he's also freed of a lot of overall work so he can be dangerous in the final third. Same with Ronaldo.

Add to that athleticism, pace and directness of the modern game, areas in which both players excel in their own ways, and despite their different styles, I think this is a unique situation compared to past eras, in regards to how these two are basically used in very one dimensional ways by their teams: to score and score and score - especially as they both age and the game gets ever more direct. I don't think we've seens this done before with players of their calibre. You can for example see it with Argentina: The more Messi is supposed to be involved and create, the less he scores. This is not to mean he can't to both these things, but just to highlight he, just as Ronaldo, is very much utilized by Barca as a scorer.

I surely don't want to lessen their talent or dimish what they are doing - both are at the absolute top of all time with few others - but I think if used in similar streamlined ways guys like Kaka, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc. could've come up with similar numbers if not for the less rigid general playing style of their eras and their more varied roles, Hazard, Robben and Neymar could be contemporary examples.

It should also be noted that both haven't suffered too many serious longterm injuries and that their careers have been going on forever. Starting with Cristiano's transfer to Utd in 2003, he's been playing at the top level for almost 15 years now, Messi broke through into the Barca first team around 2005, which is almost 13 years ago. Brazilian Ronaldo had about 10 years of top level/performance football riddled with injuries before it started to go downhill for him, Ronaldinho basically only his 5 years at Barca before it went downhill for him for various reasons. Their health and physical prowess - certainly rooted as much in the professionalization of these fields in modern football as their personal will - along their streamlined style of play account for a big chunk of their otherworldly longterm performances.

So I actually think in a way it's Ronaldo and Messi overshadowing other players, mainly through the numbers they put out by being able to not suffer physically. Talent wise they are probably a level above everyone else right now, but there's a few not far behind who could perhaps do similar things if free of injury and played in similar ways. Along this the high number of high performers below these two creates the illusion there's less top players out there than in other times - ability wise I think this is the case, but for the sheer physicality of the game most of these just lack the consistency of Ronaldo and Messi.
 
Juan Matas Beard

Juan Matas Beard

Pronouns: dat, guy 🫶
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Zoom in on the below image to see how much of a fraud Messi is. 5% Open play conversion rate.

penessi.png
 
Mitch

Mitch

Blonde Brigade Grand Wizard
Ahh the player who has nice hair and abs being overrated (granted he is the next best after messi).

Messi holds more records and won more Ballon D'ors (should have won 2 more but as with Ballon Dor its seem to go to the best team that year best player rather than the best individual player that season). Messi 11/12 season is greatest individual peformance in a season by a player. More ex greqt players and coaches reconise Messi to be the greatest ever.
 
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