Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

[Oxeki]

We will never know is this answer...there are signs that prime Özil's style wouldn't work in todays football (by the by today's football sucks, too much emphasis on physical and not enough on technical ability).

But to flat out say no a prime Özil would not work, is also a little dodgy...if you got a 20 year old motivated Mesut, I am sure he could be moulded to today's game in some way (wasn't he supposed to be more rounded at Bremen, before Mourinho turned him a bit into a final ball merchant).

And speaking of Mourinho, a manager that puts extreme emphasis on defensive covering, he had no problem playing Mesut in a title winning team.

Özil hasn't been perfect here, but he has still contributed to our club's history...why are our own fans so eager to knock him.

If you're talking about a 20 year old motivated Özil (Which I believe is the best version of Özil. I think he could even rival 20 year old Cesc) then yes I agree with you.

Bremen Özil was an all action KDB-esque player. Infact I believe Bremen Özil would have been world class at CM.

But we're talking about post Madrid Özil that became all about the final Ball. Post Madrid Özil would not work out in the elite clubs today. He's just too one dimensional. A great passer in the final third and great movement. But average in other phases of play.

It's not that football is more physical than technical now. The thing is teams now require both in almost equal measure

 

[Riou]

Would Ronaldinho work in today's game?

That mother ****er ain't tracking back and just kind of played between the lines high up the pitch...but still greatly preferred watching him growing up, than all the robots we have playing now.

Someone like Robert Pires would struggle too, needs more freedom to play his best.

 

[Sanchez11]

Great thread bumping the guy is irrelevant ffs!!

 

[lomekian]

Not at all. He has never been a control or possession dominant team player. He is a counter attack player. That's why Germany shifted him to the wings in favor of players who can actually influence overall play. In the middle he actually influences the team to have lesser control. That's why no big team went for him and RM flourished again in the CL. When Özil was great in a WC or a Euro or at his best were all fast paced counter attack teams and most of his best moments are more often than not always a counter attack situation but his influence beyond that was always lacking. Its more that the likes of Benzema, Ronaldo, Podolski, Muller, Alexis and the midfielders who made him better or covered his short comings rather than him making them play better because even in his earlier days he wasn't physically able to cope with the intensity of play anywhere.

This is revisionist bullshit or you don't watch or understand football.

Nothing revisionist about it. He was counter attack player for Germany before they got good enough at controlling a game to do so at the highest level. Are you telling me that Germany kept using him as a counter attack player 2012-2018? And their positional deployment of him was always going to be influenced by the other players at their disposal and their preferred system - as is the case with every national team.

You have missed the main thrust of what I said. That he's a peripheral player WHO USED TO BE very dangerous on the counter, but has always been an asset for finding unusual passing angles and unexpected exploitations of space in teams capable of controlling a game regardless of his infuence.

You are insulting me despite the fact that you agree with 2/3 of what i said. If you can't read and digest information its probably best not to slagging people off.

 

[Football Manager]

Would Ronaldinho work in today's game?

That mother ****er ain't tracking back and just kind of played between the lines high up the pitch...but still greatly preferred watching him growing up, than all the robots we have playing now.

Build up phase, final third. He will be no problem there.

You might need a good system/right player to accommodate him in the defensive phase (or himself adapting to the game).

Being good in two phases is good enough for me. Not everyone can be good in all three even in today’s football. But one is just too limited and wouldn’t work.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

Would Ronaldinho work in today's game?

That mother ****er ain't tracking back and just kind of played between the lines high up the pitch...but still greatly preferred watching him growing up, than all the robots we have playing now.

Why not? Ronaldinho was exceptional both as a player and physically as well. He was rapid and powerful in his running style. He could tear up the league from the left wing. You're talking about a player on a different stratosphere to Özil.

 

[Football Manager]

Nothing revisionist about it. He was counter attack player for Germany before they got good enough at controlling a game to do so at the highest level. Are you telling me that Germany kept using him as a counter attack player 2012-2018? And their positional deployment of him was always going to be influenced by the other players at their disposal and their preferred system - as is the case with every national team.

You have missed the main thrust of what I said. That he's a peripheral player WHO USED TO BE very dangerous on the counter, but has always been an asset for finding unusual passing angles and unexpected exploitations of space in teams capable of controlling a game regardless of his infuence.

You are insulting me despite the fact that you agree with 2/3 of what i said. If you can't read and digest information its probably best not to slagging people off.

Calm down mate. You both made really good points and seems both mutually agree on many things.

 

[lomekian]

People ***** on Cesc and I hate him as much as anyone but he literally ran the entire team by himself. In his prime he was undeniably the best midfielder in the world.

For the record, I don't hate Cesc and think he's one of the 10 best players I've seen in over 3 decades of following the team, but he was never the best midfielder in the world. Top 5? For a couple of seasons, yes.

We never replaced him and he was far more influential player than Özil.

 

[lomekian]

Agree.

From my previous post I have already stated that he is a good final third player, with almost no contribution to the build up phase. So I do understand where he gets praises from, and where he gets criticism for. I also explained why he is called an inconsistent player.

I never rate a player who can only operate well in one phase, but being a liability (tactically) in other phases.

It is not that I don’t understand his strength, it’s just his weaknesses have outweighed it.

I'd say now your conclusion is correct. I'd say for a period of time the balance was the other way round.

 

[Riou]

It's not that football is more physical than technical now. The thing is teams now require both in almost equal measure

Thinking more about it, it's not the physical side I dislike, mainly have everything seems so pre determined by the coaches, everything is very rigid these compared to the past...I like a bit of danger, a bit of a maverick in my play...not a super compulsive like Pep mapping out were he wants you to go every play.

 

[lomekian]

You are confused. Their whole team involved. Some players more, some players less. Still a lot more than Özil. And KDB will fall back to help the play when needed.

Özil is a player who would just play well in the final third. No one says he is not. But he was **** in build up play as always. Ideally you want to have 11 players who is good at contributing to possession.

That's not true. Özil has, at times been very good at build up play. Its just that as a roving number 10, that's not what we wanted from him. In fact, in the last 3 years, most of his best work has been from positions which are too deep to really make the most of his skillset. Its partially him trying to make up for the fact no one else is good enough at progressing the ball, but also a reflection of his reducing courage in the final third and athletic explosiveness.

Özil is a very competent build up player, but so poor at other aspects of central midfield play that you don't want him in that role.

 

[Riou]

Why not? Ronaldinho was exceptional both as a player and physically as well. He was rapid and powerful in his running style. He could tear up the league from the left wing. You're talking about a player on a different stratosphere to Özil.

Roanldinho was probably the most fun player I ever watched on the pitch, cause Rijkaard gave him freedom to do whatever the **** he kinda wanted on the left for Barca...think we wouldn't have have seen Ronnie at his best if he was he his prime now, certainly not for a major team in the way we did back then.

My main point is it doesn't matter if so and so wouldn't work at their best in this era, but what they did do at their best in their era.

 

[lomekian]

Yeah but he was ineffective throughout with little influence while I believe if Reus didn't get injured he'd easily have started in the left wings.

You believe that because it is your preference, which is entirely fair enough...Reus is a fine player....but Low made it clear that Özil was integral and would have been in the team at all times regardless of who else was available. Low was really explicit about that.

I don't know if I totally agree with Low personally.

 

[Football Manager]

That's not true. Özil has, at times been very good at build up play. Its just that as a roving number 10, that's not what we wanted from him. In fact, in the last 3 years, most of his best work has been from positions which are too deep to really make the most of his skillset. Its partially him trying to make up for the fact no one else is good enough at progressing the ball, but also a reflection of his reducing courage in the final third and athletic explosiveness.

Özil is a very competent build up player, but so poor at other aspects of central midfield play that you don't want him in that role.

I think we are on the same page. Just that I regard your “other aspect of central midfield play” as build up play in general.

 

[Oxeki]

Would Ronaldinho work in today's game?

That mother ****er ain't tracking back and just kind of played between the lines high up the pitch...but still greatly preferred watching him growing up, than all the robots we have playing now.

Someone like Robert Pires would struggle too, needs more freedom to play his best.

I don't think tracking back would have been a problem. The manager would have constructed a system to ensure that Ronaldinho got as little defensive responsibility as possible.

Ronaldinho won't have had any problem with with the build up phase. He's arguably the most technically gifted player in the last 3 decade, so I don't think he would have had ant problem adapting

 

[lomekian]

Prime Özil won’t work in today’s football.

When you say today’s football is more emphasise on athleticism rather than technical ability. I disagree. It’s more like emphasising on both, instead of just being physical, or just being technical.

In fact, you just need to be good enough to do well in all three phases of the game (plus transition), regardless of your athleticism or technical ability (Although being good in all three phases normally require some sort of combination of athleticism and technical ability depending on the position you play in).

Being a limited player who is just good at the defensive phase like coquelin, or just good at the final phase like Özil will never work in today’s football.

Depends on the League and the club. Somewhere like Juve or a Madrid with more legs in midfield than they currently have, and prime Özil would have a field day. The modern EPL and Bundesliga are too competitive and lack any dominant team that could use a player of his type.

 

[Oxeki]

Roanldinho was probably the most fun player I ever watched on the pitch, cause Rijkaard gave him freedom to do whatever the **** he kinda wanted on the left for Barca...think we wouldn't have have seen Ronnie at his best if he was he his prime now, certainly not for a major team in the way we did back then.

My main point is it doesn't matter if so and so wouldn't work at their best in this era, but what they did do at their best in their era.

Imagine if an inferior player like Neymar was killing it now, Big Ron would be ripping teams apart.

He did get a lot of freedom from rijkaard in that 03-06 side. But he did carry that team

 

[lomekian]

I think we are on the same page. Just that I regard your “other aspect of central midfield play” as build up play in general.

Yeah, its primarly a semantics disagreement, which I come down slightly more positively about the player, because I think in possession Özil is fine in build up play, if unremarkable and limit his weaknesses to non possession play if we are talking deeper.

 

[Riou]

Anyone who started watching football around 2010, I feel a little sorry for you in a way.

I think the last decade has seen football get too constricting compared to what it was before, I say it a lot but top players now seem like pre programmed robots, everything seems planned out in advance, it's lost a little magic...this isn't nostalgia, it's just facts.

The sweet spot for football imo, in terms of the perfect mix between technical skills mixed with physical skills, added to outstanding coaches who also gave their players freedom was the 1990s and 2000s, anyone who watched football in this period was so lucky...it was the beautiful game at it's peak...would even prefer the slower, yet technical football before this period, to what we watch now.

Not saying there isn't top players now, but something is missing and I think we all know it.

This is a good post to leave in an thread dedicated to an artist like Mesut Özil, because never forget...everyone here could be trained to run fast for long periods, no one here could do what Mes can do at his peak...

 

[oh to be a goon]

How does this thread keep getting pages and pages of bumps? He's not even in the squad