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Mikel Arteta: Serial Trophy Winning MANAGER

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by OnlyOne, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. KrissKringle

    KrissKringle Well-Known Member

    This is a myth that people here like to believe. We all know that even if we bring the best defenders in the world, in 3 months they'll become circus clowns.

    It's the Arsenal way of defending that makes them lose all their knowledge. You've seen it time and time again and it doesn't happen only with defenders.

    Rarely do you see players who keep their instincts here over time, like Sanchez or Auba.
     
  2. Emeryates

    Emeryates Heccy Regret

    Which top defenders have we done this to?
     
  3. lomekian

    lomekian Well-Known Member

    Its not rocket science. Team doesn't score enough goals and is the least fit Arsenal team in years. They are constantly shagged after 65 minutes, unless subs turn it around.

    Emery could never get a tune out of them for more than 60 mins either and neither could the last year of Wenger.

    Either they aren't athletes, like Xhaka etc. Or they can't maintain intensity like Laca etc. Or they can't retain concentration - Mustafi etc. Or they are kids who don't have man strength yet. Or they are returning from injuries.

    I think the only ones who can last 90 mins is Auba, and he's not a player to defend a lead.
     
  4. KrissKringle

    KrissKringle Well-Known Member

    Toure was a rock in The invincibles period and later on people started calling him Clown Kolo.
     
  5. Emeryates

    Emeryates Heccy Regret

    I'm guessing it's because the personnel next to him got worse?
     
  6. AberGooner

    AberGooner Well-Known Member

    Gallas is another
     
  7. Emeryates

    Emeryates Heccy Regret

    Weird how City can defend, Liverpool can defend while also not having some great defensive structure. Both can lose 3-0, 4-0 to top teams on off days that our great teams of the past would not do.
     
  8. lomekian

    lomekian Well-Known Member

    Agree the team set-up & style doesn't help Pepe. Xhaka? I think Arteta needs him for one more year given the absence of any other senior midfielders and at least Xhaka knows his game, limited as it is, where most of our other midfielders are still defining theirs.

    Mustafi is a tricky one because we all know he's not good enough, but equally we all know that Kola isn't even that good, Holding looks too slow since his injury, Chambers is broken at the mo, and we have no idea how quickly Saliba or Mari will adjust. And Sokratis is gone. Lots of quantity, shortage of certain quality.

    It all depends on what bids we can get.
     
    L3T5 PL4Y likes this.
  9. Riou

    Riou Non-Stop Nostalgia

    Kolo and Gallas was always a dodgy partnership, both did the same thing really, Kolo was still individually very good post Sol but just didn't have a proper partner...should have signed Woodgate from Madrid instead of Gallas, would have been a good foil for Toure, plus we could have had a experienced British player to anchor our team.

    The pressure on Saliba next season will be enormous regardless who he plays with, hope he has ze mental strength to cope.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
    L3T5 PL4Y, lomekian and Emeryates like this.
  10. Emeryates

    Emeryates Heccy Regret

    You need one leader who can control the defence and is excellent at positioning and one who is more athletic. VVD and Gomez is a good combo for that reason, VVD-Lovren look good too, but Lovren-Gomez are a clownshow waiting to happen.

    Mertesacker-Holding looked good in that one game for the same reason. Also why Per-Kos were good for so long. Mertesacker though, had zero pace, and that was often exploited. And that's why we were better with them but still not good enough.

    We have not had a good defensive pair that complements each other for a long, long time and that's why we're **** defensively.

    Example: Both Luiz and Mustafi want to recklessly tackle the ball and go for it. You need someone who can sit back and cover the other's mistakes if you play one of them. Saliba won't be that either.
     
    lomekian likes this.
  11. AberGooner

    AberGooner Well-Known Member

    Don't think Toure/Gallas liked each other which couldn't have helped either.
    Any little mistake Saliba makes will be magnified which isn't fair on him. Ideally we'd have a proper quality experienced defender next to him but I fear that may be Luiz.
     
  12. lomekian

    lomekian Well-Known Member

    Depends on squad renewal. I say we can start making proper conclusions at the end of next season. Sooner if we absolutely fly or if we crash and burn. But realistically then.....but that depends on ins and outs.

    Emery we could judge because he lost the players and by the end every game was just structural and positional chaos. But even he got time despite worrying signs because everyone can see this squad makes no sense.

    A big thing will be how the kids kick on or not.
     
    Emeryates likes this.
  13. squallman

    squallman Still Pining for Wenger

    Tied? Hardly. Even if its only for a week or two, they should have been dropped for anyone.

    Just pull them aside and say "David, I'm taking you out of the XI but if you work hard during training bla bla bla."

    Then put in a kid from the academy or convert someone from the first team to play back there.

    Make sure the players know that repeated mistakes and piss poor performances will not be tolerated. Even if that means dropping in academy kids.
     
  14. lomekian

    lomekian Well-Known Member

    I imagine we'll see a step to what he wants, but it'll take more than a year to make the needed changes. I know its a disappointing answer, but at this stage all we can realistically demand is progress
     
  15. KrissKringle

    KrissKringle Well-Known Member

    That too, but the way we were defending was not on the same level as before after 2006.

    Wenger made a huge mistake by getting rid of our most experienced players like they were nothing instead of keeping them around as mentors for the kids he brought.

    Senderos partnered Toure in our CL run in which we conceded only 4 goals all tournament and the only loss was in the final.

    The thing I'm driving at is that there's no defensive foundation here anymore and no matter who you bring, they'll eventually catch the bug from these bums.

    Only solution I see is to get rid of all our defensive players and start from scratch, but that won't happen.
     
  16. Riou

    Riou Non-Stop Nostalgia

    It's unfair to put a young defender like Saliba into our defensive structure, I really hope he can become the defender he looks.

    The one thing I hope he brings is power to our backline again, we have zero right now...



    ...look at Kolo Toure at around 3 minutes in this vid...this is around the time Ronaldo started packing on muscle, plus Cristiano was lighting fast back then...yet Kolo has the pace to stay with him and the strength to hold him off and win the ball fairly...if this was anyone in our backline now, Ronaldo is either past him or our defender is getting booked for bringing him down.

    Kolo had a peak Sol to learn from...and, let's just say Saliba does not have a peak Sol to learn from :lol:
     
    Trilly and KrissKringle like this.
  17. lomekian

    lomekian Well-Known Member

    To be fair Man U's squad is worth 3 times ours and is stronger. Also Ole's been there a year longer, and 3 of those games under Arteta were screwed by red cards, another by a defensive error you wouldn't expect a schoolboy to make, and against Chelsea at home we were totally shafted by the cretin of a ref.

    Could Arteta have managed today better? I think so, he got rope a doped by a combo of Mourinho and our defenders. The other matches, other than having better players to select, I'm not sure what else he could have done.
     
  18. AberGooner

    AberGooner Well-Known Member

    Loved Kolo was genuinely 1 of the best in the world at that point. Was gutted he didn't get captaincy when Gallas did.
     
    Riou likes this.
  19. OnlyOne

    OnlyOne Vinai Venkatesham Stan Trusted

    Who's your avi?
     
  20. Emeryates

    Emeryates Heccy Regret

    A ****ty RB
     

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