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Mikel Arteta: Serial Trophy Winning MANAGER

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by OnlyOne, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Stability and balance is more important. Let’s not forget the times we had an exciting midfield that had Cazorla and Özil in it yet got carved open all too often. Even had games where we lacked creativity.
     
  2. Macho

    Macho Well-Known Member Trusted

    That was a very Emery-esque game today.

    Bailed out by our forwards after playing like trash.
     
    Tourbillion, dbig and asukru like this.
  3. dka91

    dka91 Well-Known Member

    Aye, it feels like Arteta is a bit too worried (and rightly so) about our defence to really set us up to push back the opposition.

    Which is why I'm wondering if Partey might take priority as he offers presence in the MF?

    What I worry about slightly is that it's not necessarily creativity we lack but rather we're just being conservative.
     
    Furious likes this.
  4. DanDare

    DanDare Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief

    Think I have to lay some of the blame for today's performance here

    Don't think 5 at the back with these personnel was the way to go.

    Kolasinac can't pass like Tierney, Holding can't pass. Ceballos and Xhaka together seem redundant. Really think it should be one or the other.

    I would have gone 4231 and played Pepe from the start
     
    Tourbillion, nick gould and dbig like this.
  5. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    This is the thing how far can we actually go with this system?
     
    DanDare likes this.
  6. TakeChillPill

    TakeChillPill Well-Known Member

    Got it wrong with the midfield of ceballos and xhaka.
     
    kash2, krackpot and DanDare like this.
  7. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    I think the one player that unlocks the 4231 and 433 for Arteta is Partey. With him you get the extra stability for the defence. We are hanging onto 5 at the back because of our lack of power and control in the middle.
     
    Pyres7, TakeChillPill and Manberg like this.
  8. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Arteta’s dream midfield is Xhaka, Partey and Aouar. But you’re right without a player like Partey in there we can’t go to a 4 at the back. Not against any premier league opposition.
     
  9. BigPoppaPump

    BigPoppaPump Contrarian

    Arteta was out coached by Moyes, people act like Moyes is some joke for some reason but he's a veteran manager in the PL and Arteta will struggle at times going up against these types. Look at Everton they have Ancelotti as their manager ffs.
     
  10. TornadoTed

    TornadoTed Well-Known Member

    I think people are being really harsh on yesterdays performance, sometimes you just have to give the opposition some credit. West Ham were shocking in their first match at Newcastle and they had a point to prove, Moyes set them up really well and they played well.

    Yesterday was a perfect example of the Premiership for me. There isn't a huge gulf between most teams and the thing that won the match was just that extra bit of quality for both goals. We have that quality and West Ham don't.

    Liverpool won 13 games by a 1 goal last season and not just against the top sides, teams like Brighton, Southampton, Norwich, Bournemouth and Palace too. This is La Liga where the top teams steam roller most of the division every week.
     
  11. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    As one of the first posters to want Arteta as our manager, feel able to criticise him. He's making a big mistake with Pepe.

    The lad is a talented footballer who cost a fortune by our standards. He struggled to get into the pace of the Prem and Emery dented his confidence, but by the end of last season we were starting to see the reasons we bought him under Arteta.

    But this season he's lost his place and going backwards. Willian needs to be back up or Arteta needs to play a different system with them both.

    We only have a few truly top 4 players like Auba and Tierney. And we saw what happened when Tierney was missing . . .the difference he makes! We need Pepe firing and scoring.
     
    Sammy1887, celestis, Beksl and 2 others like this.
  12. DanDare

    DanDare Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief

    Yeah of course we don't play in a vacuum and how we perform is partly dependent on the opposition. I think the problem I had which I stated was, given the loss of Tierney (as well as already missing Luiz), we didn't have any passers out from the back (Gabriel is ok so far in terms of this). If you play 3/5 ATB one or more defenders has to make up for the lack of midfield passers IMO.

    Kolasinac and Holding aren't up to that so think it was the wrong formation
     
    TornadoTed likes this.
  13. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    What's he supposed to do if not play Xhaka and Ceballos? He has no options there. If he played Elneny everyone would be complaining too.
     
  14. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    I wouldn't say Pepe should be starting over Willian just because he should, he should only be starting if he deserves it. But in a game like yesterday do you need to take Willian off for Pepe, can't you put Pepe on and take a defender off? It reinforces the idea that it's a straight-up competition between Willian and Pepe and that Pepe is losing it.

    Arteta also just generally seems reluctant to alter the formation towards the end of a match when chasing a goal. Wenger would just do the simple thing, he'd take off a defender and put on an attacker if we needed a goal. Arteta replaces an attacker for an attacker. He could be less cautious.
     
  15. DanDare

    DanDare Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief

    I'd have played Xhaka or Ceballos with El-Neny and 3 players behind Lacazette, 4 at the back. Kolasinac added nothing:

    Tackles: 0
    Interceptions: 1
    Clearances: 0
    Blocked shots: 0
    Fouls: 1
     
  16. TornadoTed

    TornadoTed Well-Known Member

    I agree with your point, the system works with Tierney but definitely not so much with Kolasinac. It would have been fine if Luiz had of been fit enough to start over Kola.

    However I don't think it's that easy to just switch formation a few minutes before kick off, a lot of preparation and planning goes in all week in training. Maybe it will be easier further down the line when the squad get comfortable with playing a few different formations but currently the focus seems to be very much on 3-4-3.
     
    DanDare likes this.
  17. DanDare

    DanDare Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief

    Yeah to be fair it was a tricky situation. I almost feel like there's a case for putting Xhaka there instead of Kola and having el Neny next to Ceballos.

    I'm not pretending I'd have thought of all this (or that it would have worked) spur of the moment. Management is so hard and overall we won.
     
    TornadoTed likes this.
  18. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    His stats at Lille and what we saw at the end of the season show Pepe has got the talents we need now he's getting used to the pace of the Prem. We need another finisher, not just a provider.
     
  19. SA Gunner

    SA Gunner Prediction Pool King Trusted

    How is winning the game being outcoached?

    Did Wenger outcoach opposition managers in all those games where we had the possession but lost the game?

    We had issues today, but we able to weather the storm and then drive home our advantage. So if I had to make a call on the coaching, I think its the other way around old boy.
     
  20. moloso

    moloso Active Member

    Getting a decent defensive performance out of Kolasinac, Gabriel (newness rather than ability) and Bob Holding is a serious achievement. You can see that a lack of ability and defensive concentration is still waiting to jump out but it's such a far cry from what we've had.

    There was a point late in the 2nd half where we were under a bit of pressure and we played some nice one touch stuff in the box and pretty sure the first one or two passes were from Kolasinac - little instances like that show me that with some time and some player turnover we are on the right path even if the performances aren't always there. We definitely go behind at some point in that game under Emery even if we may have ended up winning or at least not losing.
     

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