Lidl_Reed
Wants a new name
ARTETA OUT
What the flaming ****? A measured and well reasoned post about Arteta on AM? Mate, you are in wrong forum! Here only black or white exists. You are either a godlike manager or absolute bottom of the barrel ****! Learn to reason like a 5th grader or **** the hell out of here!I am most assuredly not an 'Arteta fan'.
I think there are things to like about him, and things I have significant concerns about. I was close to fully wanting him out in December. Since then, things have significantly improved and the team has a top-5 record in the PL since Christmas - so the recent results are meeting your expectations.
The absolute stupidest thing in modern football is firing your manager every year at the first sign of a slump. Then a new guy comes in with a whole bunch of players he doesn't like/want and tries to put in a new system. Gets one offseason to bring in some new players, then gets fired at the first slump. New guy then inherits a new mess. It's ****ing idiotic. It's why teams can't get out of bad cycles. It's why a team like United is playing better with a crap manager in OGS that they've kept around for a bit than they did with actual good managers they kept quickly recycling.
I like what Arteta has done with this team defensively. I see improvements offensively. I'm willing to give him one normal offseason and a start to a normal season next season to see if he can build on some of the things that have happened this year to get results. If we're in 10th at Christmas - bye. That doesn't make me some sort of blind 'Arteta fan' who is somehow cheering for the manager over the fortunes of the team.
As I've said a few times, I'm 'Arteta neutral' but unless things are totally going into the tank - and they currently aren't - I'll err on the side of keeping the manager rather than running around thinking hiring some new guy is going to magically fix years of endemic rot in the team.
He should be doing better and I think with a bunch of good signings this summer we will surely make strides next season with Arteta. But with Arsenal in all my years of supporting them, we’ve never really backed a manager massively - so I think the bulk of our current starting line up will be the same next season.
What the flaming ****? A measured and well reasoned post about Arteta on AM? Mate, you are in wrong forum! Here only black or white exists. You are either a godlike manager or absolute bottom of the barrel ****! Learn to reason like a 5th grader or **** the hell out of here!
I'm fully with you. I don't think it makes much sense to keep on chopping and changing managers unless you dose the squad in money like Chelsea do. For us it is better to stick with Arteta and hope we have made the right decision in hiring a young and unproven manager. Let him implement what he thinks is right. I would be okay with another season at least, unless things turn absolutely to ****.It's so weird to me. Again, if we had fired Arteta at Christmas and the new manager had :
a) turned the team around by inserting ESR at 10.
b) stuck Willian on the bench for the last two months.
c) had the 5th best record in the PL since Christmas.
d) had seen our offensive results jump from 18th pre-Christmas to 5th post-Christmas.
e) had the 3rd best defensive record in the PL.
... that new manager would be getting celebrated like a god here right now. But when a young manager learns from some mistakes and makes those exact improvements, it seems like everyone refuses to adjust to the new information and just keeps screaming ARTETA OUT because we sucked 4 months ago and look at the standings. And obviously when you have a bad stretch of play early in a season it's going to impact your position in the standings for that whole year, so lets keep bring that up over and over again.
Let's say we finish 8th-9th this year but at the end of the season have the 5th best record over the final 25 games of the season. Is it really logical to defend dropping a manager who had excellent results that met expectations in the most recent large sample size because the team had a bad slump in November? Can anyone actually defend that? The whole thing makes no sense to me.
Insanity is looking at poop and putting a positive spin on it to convince yourself and others it’s a bar of soap, when the ting is clearly poop.
Pretty much what some posters and media outlets have tried to do this season. We can all clearly see he’s a novice manager, but instead of calling it like it is sometimes, everything else except Arteta gets blamed.
What if the club decide not to go on a shopping spree this summer? Where does this leave us under Arteta?
It's so weird to me. Again, if we had fired Arteta at Christmas and the new manager had :
a) turned the team around by inserting ESR at 10.
b) stuck Willian on the bench for the last two months.
c) had the 5th best record in the PL since Christmas.
d) had seen our offensive results jump from 18th pre-Christmas to 5th post-Christmas.
e) had the 3rd best defensive record in the PL.
... that new manager would be getting celebrated like a god here right now. But when a young manager learns from some mistakes and makes those exact improvements, it seems like everyone refuses to adjust to the new information and just keeps screaming ARTETA OUT because we sucked 4 months ago and look at the standings. And obviously when you have a bad stretch of play early in a season it's going to impact your position in the standings for that whole year, so lets keep bring that up over and over again.
Let's say we finish 8th-9th this year but at the end of the season have the 5th best record over the final 25 games of the season. Is it really logical to defend dropping a manager who had excellent results that met expectations in the most recent large sample size because the team had a bad slump in November? Can anyone actually defend that? The whole thing makes no sense to me.
Now you've hit the nail on the head. You want to hold Arteta to different standards to Arsène and Unai.Do you think that maybe it's possible that it's fair to judge a young manager who is coming into a poor squad in a year completely screwed up by COVID by *slightly* different standards than you'd judge a 70 y/o manager with a roster he'd spent 23 years building?
I wanted Wenger to stay. He's one of the greatest managers in the history of the sport. But I don't ****ing care about him any more. It's done. He's gone. There's been a whole other different manager in between since. We can see pretty clearly that that new manager inherited a squad with all kinds of problems from previous administrations. He's also had to deal with the strangest season in sporting history.
This team has had 5 years of rot starting with the 2016 offseason. It should be instantly obvious that a new young manager coming into this team (in an exceptionally difficult year) would have lower standards than Wenger had in 2015-16 with an outstanding squad.
This team could rise Bill Shankly from the grave and if he'd taken over mid 19-20 he wouldn't have this team in a CL position right now. You've basically created yourself a position where literally any/every manager that could be in place with this team would be a failure with the standards you've set.
This roster is not good enough for a top-4 finish. We're maybe the 5th biggest club in England right now and when you're the 5th biggest club who has spent terribly for the last 5 years, you aren't going to somehow get better than the 5th-best results. The fact that Wenger worked miracles for this team several years ago doesn't mean that the current manager - whose situation has literally nothing to do with Arsène Wenger - is a failure and needs to be replaced if he isn't working even greater miracles to match Wenger's results.
I'm not sure if Arteta is the long-term manager here. But I've seen enough things to give me hope that he could be and I think booting him out of here before he's even had a normal season to work with is idiotic, and that the grass isn't going to be somehow greener without him.
It's so weird to me. Again, if we had fired Arteta at Christmas and the new manager had :
a) turned the team around by inserting ESR at 10.
b) stuck Willian on the bench for the last two months.
c) had the 5th best record in the PL since Christmas.
d) had seen our offensive results jump from 18th pre-Christmas to 5th post-Christmas.
e) had the 3rd best defensive record in the PL.
... that new manager would be getting celebrated like a god here right now. But when a young manager learns from some mistakes and makes those exact improvements, it seems like everyone refuses to adjust to the new information and just keeps screaming ARTETA OUT because we sucked 4 months ago and look at the standings. And obviously when you have a bad stretch of play early in a season it's going to impact your position in the standings for that whole year, so lets keep bring that up over and over again.
Let's say we finish 8th-9th this year but at the end of the season have the 5th best record over the final 25 games of the season. Is it really logical to defend dropping a manager who had excellent results that met expectations in the most recent large sample size because the team had a bad slump in November? Can anyone actually defend that? The whole thing makes no sense to me.
It’s this. That’s what irks me a bit. The refusal to acknowledge an upturn. That upturn has to continue for it to be anything of note and to add justification for him to continue beyond this campaign, but I believe what we’ve seen recently would have been hailed as an achievement had someone else taken over at Christmas—it’s just kind of being ignored as if the situation had gone beyond redemption.But if we'd fired him on December 25 and the new manager had literally the *exact* results playing the exact players that Arteta has had since Christmas, pretty much everyone dumping on Arteta right now would be celebrating that new manager for turning things around to such an extent.
Worth listening to in full
Worth listening to in full
Very fair post but my issue is that all of a sudden he’s moving away from what seemed to be working to shoehorn in his favourites. That’s not good management, it’s failure to recognise what was driving his team to better results!It's so weird to me. Again, if we had fired Arteta at Christmas and the new manager had :
a) turned the team around by inserting ESR at 10.
b) stuck Willian on the bench for the last two months.
c) had the 5th best record in the PL since Christmas.
d) had seen our offensive results jump from 18th pre-Christmas to 5th post-Christmas.
e) had the 3rd best defensive record in the PL.
... that new manager would be getting celebrated like a god here right now. But when a young manager learns from some mistakes and makes those exact improvements, it seems like everyone refuses to adjust to the new information and just keeps screaming ARTETA OUT because we sucked 4 months ago and look at the standings. And obviously when you have a bad stretch of play early in a season it's going to impact your position in the standings for that whole year, so lets keep bring that up over and over again.
Let's say we finish 8th-9th this year but at the end of the season have the 5th best record over the final 25 games of the season. Is it really logical to defend dropping a manager who had excellent results that met expectations in the most recent large sample size because the team had a bad slump in November? Can anyone actually defend that? The whole thing makes no sense to me.
He should be able to see this but he’s actively unbalancing the team in order to satisfy his own favourites/ideals from my standpoint and that’s just not good enough.
Are you sure you realise you’re defending a manager who’s in the bottom half of the table and 8 places behind Leicester? Or even what day it is. Not long ago not winning the league was sackable for an Arsenal manager. I’m guessing this new you must be on Prozac. Otherwise it’s all very strange for a simple person to understandIt’s this. That’s what irks me a bit. The refusal to acknowledge an upturn. That upturn has to continue for it to be anything of note and to add justification for him to continue beyond this campaign, but I believe what we’ve seen recently would have been hailed as an achievement had someone else taken over at Christmas—it’s just kind of being ignored as if the situation had gone beyond redemption.
If he wins the league, I'll be happy to see him have another go at retaining it. But the truth is he didn't deserve another shot after the clusterfvck of last preseason, and the subsequent humiliation of finishing behind Leicester, in a penalty kick of a chance of winning the league..
Context, dear lad.Are you sure you realise you’re defending a manager who’s in the bottom half of the table and 8 places behind Leicester? Or even what day it is. Not long ago not winning the league was sackable for an Arsenal manager. I’m guessing this new you must be on Prozac. Otherwise it’s all very strange for a simple person to understand