Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[drippin]

Brother @drippin admitted it himself, having world class academy players has a lot to do with luck - like Kane.

I said "luck", because having an elite academy, scouting and all the other work it entails, is not mostly luck. Only part of it, but even world class talents need to be grown to top players. It's hard work and vision, and small part luck.

Paying 50m for White and him becoming our main rb to accommodate Saliba, you cannot tell me that was planned.

You can because I suggested it here from the qualities I saw from White.

And Arteta & Edu with all their scouting knowledge and help know way more than me.

But those will never admit it who were wrong about White, and thought Saliba will leave 100% like many suggested here. The agenda was that spending 50 million for White absolutely meant that Saliba will leave.

 

[SA Gunner]

One of the more interesting things with Arteta's side to me is the value he puts on things like size, physicality and set piece abilities.

Of course he's learned from Pep but you can see the Moyes influence at times also.

As much as there's a high value placed on technical ability there is also a fair bit of old fashioned English style football philosophies with Arteta, just modernised. I quite enjoy that.

Having a big, physically imposing side is always good, it was one of the hallmarks of the best Arsène sides too.

I was going to add Arsène Wenger as well but you saw it too. Our best modern sides have all been big, tall, physical machines, in addition to being technically brilliant.

Arteta is moving our team back to Wenger's blueprint, and would do very well if he can bring back even half of what Wenger's best sides could do.

 

[Macho]

I said "luck", because having an elite academy, scouting and all the other work it entails, is not mostly luck.

You can build the facilities and hope you catch and retain a Saka but you can’t expect a Saka. You could easily cut a DeBruyne as well it happens all the time.

Otherwise we’d have Saka type talent plugging holes in the squad as we speak, but the reality is we don’t.

This is how luck works.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

No normal person rates someone who's being so blatantly canonised. Some of it is easily disproved too, loved Arteta as a player when we signed him but he was a carcass at the end of his time here, he faded badly with the numerous injuries. Yet he goes to City and is the best at rondos there lol

Some story about a coach described as a shatterproof judge on a mission with his steely gaze, sounds more like some ****ty anime.

Passing was Arteta's strength and he probably grew up doing rondos. I can imagine he did get involved with rondos and proficient at it at City. First touch and passing is the last thing to leave you

 

[drippin]

You can build the facilities and hope you catch and retain a Saka but you can’t expect a Saka. You could easily cut a DeBruyne as well it happens all the time.

Otherwise we’d have a top class academy players plugging holes in the squad as we speak but we don’t.

This is how luck works.

If you do all the work I mentioned, and scout top talents, it means you are much more likely to have that "luck". Because you have a better pool that can provide a top player. But like I said, it's not mostly luck, only a part of getting a top player from the academy.

It's similar as the basic saying "you earn your luck" in sports.

 

[Macho]

If you do all the work I mentioned, and scout top talents, it means you are much more likely to have that "luck". Because you have a better pool that can provide a top player. But like I said, it's not mostly luck, only a part of getting a top player from the academy.

It's similar as the basic saying "you earn your luck" in sports.

Whallever Drippin.

 

[jones]

Passing was Arteta's strength and he probably grew up doing rondos. I can imagine he did get involved with rondos and proficient at it at City. First touch and passing is the last thing to leave you

Passing was Arteta's strength sure but his last season even that deserted him. I wanted us to sign Arteta in 2008 already and he was a great servant for us as a player but his last season he was atrocious.

The rondo thing isn't the worst bit anyway. The other parts Macho quoted are, some of that stuff reads like the Carlos Cuesta "article" that was posted here recently.

 

[jones]

Well I'm a pretty normal person, and I rate Arteta even if he is "canonised".

The "canonising" doesn't affect if I rate him or not, it's irrelevant to me or Arteta what some people write in media. Why would it affect rating anyone?

We're back to beginning. Your sentence just makes no sense, but at least that's clear now.

We're not back to the beginning we're at the end. You're still talking about Arteta.

It's ok if your English isn't that great, problem is when you reach your C2 levels you'll probably be even more insufferable than you are now.

 

[Batman]

No way Saliba has two inches on Gabriel. Also Kiwior looks like Rice height, definitely not as tall as the centre backs.

Saliba is 6'4 and Kiwi is 6'2 max.

 

[db10_therza]

You seem awfully certain of this. What is your proof for it? It's a fact that it was 99% Pep?

That is not a fact. The fact is that we can't know how much was what, other than most of City's success was Pep.

Then we have Pep himself saying that Arteta had learned football since he was born, and saying he might have even learned more from him than the other way around.

But no, for you guys it's a certain fact that it was 99% Pep. And of course the expected other claim is that Arteta copied 99% of Pep to Arsenal, which Pep also disputes.

Pep Guardiola heaps praise on Mikel Arteta after Gunners' superb start

Arsenal boss Mikel Arteta previously worked with Pep Guardiola as assistant coach at the Etihad for three years from 2016-2019 until he moved to the Emirates.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Bro it was hyperbole. It’s not a mathematical thing… The point was that it was mainly pep…

Let’s not forget that City won a treble after Arteta left them. And that by the way, is an actual fact.

 

[LookingForEric]

Brother @drippin admitted it himself, having world class academy players has a lot to do with luck - like Kane. The nurturing part of it is not, but hopefully you catch my drift.

Arteta’s done a good job and has transformed the club, not taken that away from him at all he’s proven me wrong emphatically.

I criticised the article and the notion that every bit of fortune was meticulously planned. Or that sheer money didn’t do a lot of the heavy lifting.

Paying 50m for White and him becoming our main rb to accommodate Saliba, you cannot tell me that was planned.

Part of being a great coach is adapting to different circumstances that are thrown at you.

Was the plan all along to have White at right back? Possibly yeah. He was signed due to his versatility at the back. I don’t think anyone knew just how good he could be at right back.

 

[Nunowoolmez]

Coming to this thread again & seeing @drippin making friends as usual....

 

[Blankety Blank]

Paying 50m for White and him becoming our main rb to accommodate Saliba, you cannot tell me that was planned.

We seem to quite often target certain types of flexible footballers who have the intelligence & ability to play in different areas of the pitch.
Just from a defensive viewpoint see also Tomi ,Timber & now Kiwior.

I'm sure when White was bought for £50m he wasn't seen as 'just' a CB like the more expensive Harry Maguire for instance.
He had already played on the right side of a back 3 & even in midfield.

While Arteta might not have known he was going to be shifted to accommodate Saliba it is certainly smart recruitment & so can still be deemed good planning.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I was going to add Arsène Wenger as well but you saw it too. Our best modern sides have all been big, tall, physical machines, in addition to being technically brilliant.

Arteta is moving our team back to Wenger's blueprint, and would do very well if he can bring back even half of what Wenger's best sides could do.

It's the mentality of those great Arsenal sides we need as well. Leadership and players just refusing to lose.
Like there were plenty of matches during the Invincibles run where we played poorly and probably deserved to lose but that side could always dig in and find a way to prevail.

We're a long way off that level but I do think we're heading in that sort of direction.

The past 10 or so years I started to get really fed up with players who shirked responsibility, pointed the finger at others when things went wrong or who rolled over when things got tough.

I find this core group of players to be a hardworking and likeable bunch and pretty much to a man they fight as a team and for each other. I enjoy that.

 

[Riou]

Let’s not forget that City won a treble after Arteta left them. And that by the way, is an actual fact.

Won a quadruple with Arteta though...

...and that by the way, is a SUPER actual fact!

 

[Makingtrax]

Mikel Arteta: The Manchester City years

The Arsenal manager was a voracious learner during three years on Manchester City's coaching staff – he is now reaping the rewards

theathletic.com

Spoiler: Mikel Arteta: The Manchester City years

View attachment 22728


It is approaching midnight on December 18, 2019, and Manchester City are halfway through the flight home after successfully navigating a Carabao Cup quarter-final against Oxford United.

The flat atmosphere aboard suggests otherwise. It is like they had lost.

Yes, the reigning English league champions and that competition’s cup holders had made tougher work of the tie than expected, the League One side had equalised a minute after half-time, but they had come through as comfortable 3-1 winners in the end. The sombre mood does not align with their status as a club then holding all four domestic trophies, including the Community Shield — and who had just negotiated a tricky away cup tie to reach the semi-finals.



The problem? They know it really is job done for someone sitting near the front of the plane.

At one moment during that journey back to Manchester, Mikel Arteta stood up and went to speak to manager Pep Guardiola. There was a realisation among the players and backroom staff that this was him confirming his time was up after three-and-a-half years as an assistant at City.

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The chatter about Arteta replacing the sacked Unai Emery at his former club Arsenal — who visitors City had swept aside 3-0 in the Premier League three days earlier — had become so loud that it seemed inevitable by this stage.

A coach, who had been viewed by City’s squad almost as a team-mate in his first season because his footwork and speed of thought were still so immaculate when he joined in the rondo passing drill, had steadily grown to become such an integral member of staff that the players could not enjoy their victory for thinking about the significance of his departure.

Two days later, Arteta’s exit was rubber-stamped.

Guardiola and Arteta together as colleagues for the final time against Oxford United (Robin Jones/Getty Images)

This weekend, four years and four months later, having rebuilt Arsenal and turned them into the current Premier League leaders and Champions League quarter-finalists this season, Arteta returns to the Etihad Stadium, where he could face several of the players who were in the squad that night in Oxford and Guardiola, the man who gave him his first coaching job in 2016.

After helping his countryman build the City dynasty, Arteta now wants to be the one to tear it down.

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Guardiola’s 2016-17 debut season at City ended with a third-place Premier League finish, a Champions League last-16 exit and no silverware. It remains his only trophyless season since entering first-team management in 2008 and one of the few vulnerable points in a glittering touchline career.

Doubts were cast over his ability to adapt to English football after success with Barcelona and Bayern Munich and there was an impending need for a squad overhaul: City had a team littered with men who had won Premier League titles in 2012 and 2014, but many of them were now past their primes, on long contracts, and not tailor-made for Guardiola’s way of playing.

(Chris Brunskill Ltd/Getty Images)

Guardiola brought a large backroom staff with him in summer 2016, but in that opening season, some inside the club found this Spanish cohort could be a little insular, not breaking out of their first-team bubble to exchange ideas and learnings with other departments.

One person opened the club up: Arteta. He had retired as an Arsenal player, aged 34, at the end of the 2015-16 season to go into coaching and did so not on Arsène Wenger’s staff at the Emirates Stadium but hundreds of miles away under fellow City newcomer Guardiola.


“He was the one willing to break down the door in both directions,” says one source connected to the City first team at the time, who like others in this article was speaking on the condition of anonymity to protect relationships. The same source described Arteta’s thirst for learning as like military reconnaissance — the way he circled through the various offices inside the club’s Etihad Campus to understand how every department worked and how he could plug gaps in his knowledge.

“From day one, it was like he was at university,” says another source, who observed Arteta’s evolution during his three-and-a-half seasons in Manchester. “He’s a f**king animal. An attention to detail second to none.”

Arteta and new manager Guardiola on the City bench at Stoke in August 2016 (Chris Brunskill/Getty Images)

It was at the end of that first season when Arteta learned about research that had been done around the type of squad blends which tend to establish periods of sustained dominance. He validated the work, championed it and personally convinced Guardiola to let it inform the club’s transfer policy. It was a cornerstone that became a key unifying moment at City and coincided with the start of their run of five titles in the past six completed seasons.

Arteta had shown impressive political acumen, which is what was required during his first two years with City as he looked to move up the chain of command. Cognisant of the experience of Domenec Torrent, who had been Guardiola’s closest confidant from the very start when he got the Barcelona job in 2008, and Rodolfo Borrell, another coach the manager knew from the Catalan club’s La Masia academy, the challenge was to do so without stepping on toes.

Arteta was very respectful of the relationship between Guardiola and Torrent, but his actions and the growth of his remit meant that by the time Torrent left to become manager of City’s MLS sister club New York City in the summer of 2018, his promotion to be Guardiola’s new main assistant felt very natural.

Guardiola and Arteta on the bench at Wolves’ Molineux in 2018 (Geoff Caddick/AFP via Getty Images)

Arteta had been able to secure mandates to lead certain projects outside of his day-to-day role. He laid out a sizeable portion of the scouting framework for the multi-club City Football Group (CFG) stable, which is now an 80-page document with detailed instructions on the different roles within Guardiola’s team structure and what scouts should look for when identifying players who fit the mould.



Guardiola’s coldness towards set pieces was in contrast to Arteta’s attitude, who felt it was an aspect of the game that was being under-trained and led to the recruitment in 2019 of a specialist coach. He was put in touch with Nicolas Jover, then with Brentford (a Championship side at the time) and now his trusted expert at Arsenal, even flying him to his villa in Spain’s Balearic islands to learn who he was and what he had to offer.

Impressed, he recommended Jover to City and Guardiola got on board with the club’s decision that this was an area they should invest in.

Arteta and Jover during Arsenal’s win at Bournemouth last September (Robin Jones – AFC Bournemouth/via Getty Images)

There was another project, in 2017, which stands out for the reason that it involved many people, showcasing how plugged into the City matrix Arteta had become.

City had produced a piece of work which proved the hypothesis that the higher the level of competition, the less time and space players have to shoot from within the zone of the penalty area where most goals are scored. They calculated the varying times and an academy coach devised a drill to work on it in training.

Through the relationships he had built, Arteta got wind of this and introduced it to the first-team environment. He adapted it so it was more game-realistic, with the forwards having to perform a high-intensity sprint at the start before executing the action inside a marked square under pressure from defenders. Fail to do all that within the allotted time and the ball was blown dead.

The finishing of Raheem Sterling, Leroy Sane and Gabriel Jesus improved almost immediately at the start of that 2017-18 season.

The numbers show Sterling went from seven league goals in 2016-17 to 18, Sane from five to 10, and Jesus from seven to 13. Sterling’s conversion rate increase was particularly impressive, almost doubling from 10.9 per cent in the 2016-17 Premier League season to 20.7 per cent a year later.



Surely not coincidentally, having finished third and 15 points adrift of title winners Chelsea in Guardiola’s first season, City were crowned champions in that second campaign with the only 100-point haul in Premier League history.

Many conversations in Guardiola’s first two seasons saw Arteta provide his boss with intel from his 11 years as a Premier League player with Everton and Arsenal, whether it was about opposition coaches, the tightness of some grounds’ pitches, dressing-room layouts or refereeing styles. These were nuances that he understood unlike any of City’s other Spanish coaches, but Arteta did not want to constrain himself to a role as an ex-pro providing little nuggets of information from years gone by.

While a lot of former players tend to create distance between themselves and new domains as a way of ensuring their limitations aren’t exposed, Arteta was different. He was inquisitive and, unlike most coaches who would wait for others to come to them with information, Arteta would regularly go over to the adjacent City Football Group building to spend time with the club’s analysis department.

People who worked with him felt he observed, like a judge, when provided with data, deciding what was going to be valuable enough to make a difference. He had an intuitive feel for knowing what would make a difference and gravitated towards those areas.

(Barrington Coombs/PA Images via Getty Images)

By immersing himself in so many different roles, Arteta was able to develop a 360-degree view.

That was the evolution that people witnessed in his three years at City. Arteta’s work ethic and potential were clear early on, but when he stepped up to the role as Guardiola’s main assistant, many felt he then had the authority of someone ready to take over any Premier League team — perhaps even City themselves.

“In 2018, no one was expecting Pep to stay so long (Guardiola’s initial City contract was for three seasons). It was never explained on a PowerPoint, but you could sense that the moment he leaves, this guy is ready to take it on. You could sense that was part of the plan,” says one source.



Sources describe three elements coalescing to create the Arteta we know now: the tactical learnings from Guardiola; the path he has trodden in British football, giving him a rare blend of style and steel; and his understanding of how all the components of a modern, elite football club should combine.

He learned the emotional side of managing a large squad, introducing a new rule that any player who reports for training with any issues related to football or their home life, however small, should be flagged to the coaching staff. Arteta typically wanted to know absolutely every detail so he could factor it into his thinking. He would dig down to an extra level on everything, even menial tasks that were not related to performance. It is no surprise that a daily morning meeting with the entire staff — something not in place at City — is now common at Arsenal.

This doesn’t mean that Guardiola did not interact with his assistants and support personnel. He was cooperative and aided the synergy between the first team and staff, but Arteta perhaps represents the difference between Guardiola’s generation and the new breed of all-encompassing coaches, who are comfortable not only with the softer skills of management but the modern demands of technology and data, able to prepare their own documents and manage their own files.

As a younger, multilingual coach, he was able to act as the bridge between Guardiola and both the players and the wider City staff.

In another world, Guardiola left City in 2019 or 2020 after serving a similar-length tenure as he did at Barcelona and Bayern, with Arteta stepping up as his replacement.

In this one, he has stayed, it was Arteta who moved on and is now a title-race rival, and with that comes obvious comparisons.

Guardiola and Arteta during the 2023 Community Shield (Federico Guerra Maranesi/MI News/NurPhoto via Getty Images)

Many like to portray Arteta’s style as just a rehashing of what Guardiola taught him, but those who know him refute this as lazy framing which ignores his own authentic journey and say there are as many differences between them as there are similarities.

True, both came through La Masia, but Guardiola was indoctrinated at Barca for 18 years until finally transferring to Brescia in Italy at the age of 30, whereas Arteta only spent four years at the Catalan club before leaving for Paris Saint-Germain when still a teenager.



So, while Catalonia-born Guardiola achieved his dreams with his boyhood team, Arteta, who is from San Sebastian, a six-hour drive away in northern Spain, had to deal with rejection at Barcelona and so headed for Paris and then Rangers in Glasgow before spending six years on Merseyside and another five in London.


Set aside the influences of British football on his thinking and simply look at the cultural make-up of the places that have shaped him. In his home city, there is the Basque country’s independence movement; at Rangers, the clash between Unionism and Republicanism, Catholic and Protestant, defines their Old Firm derby games with Celtic; and at Everton, he will have been exposed to the strong sense of the ‘Scouse, not English’ identity.

Arteta in action for Everton against Manchester United in 2005 (Paul Barker/AFP via Getty Images)
The bravery to leave home young, move to three other countries and immerse himself in intense footballing cultures shows someone who has a shatterproof mentality.

People who worked with Arteta at City make the point that while he of course learned key elements of Guardiola’s thinking, he is simply too passionate and too hard-working to ever be a mimic of him.

City’s secrecy around Guardiola’s methods was likened to the Great Wall of China during Arteta’s period there. Not even the club’s analysts had full visibility regarding what the sessions were. It was a form of osmosis in the sense that the closer you go to the inner circle, the more you knew, but you had to be right next to Guardiola to really see the work in action.

Arteta was privy to that but CFG’s network-wide literature on coaching methodology, aimed at developing a uniform style across all clubs, already existed in some form before Guardiola even arrived. It is not a tell-all guide, rather a set of principles that CFG coaches bring to life in their own vision, as it was managed in a way that protects Guardiola’s approach.



“You can copy sessions, but that isn’t the secret. Too many are obsessed with practices and where to put the cones. The secret to success is much deeper than that. Nobody gets to know how Pep thinks and that is his genius,” says one insider.

At City, Arteta’s nature means that he never felt complete. His openness meant staff knew if they could help him win they would get his total buy-in, and that his status would make their work more likely to penetrate the first-team environment. Arteta was always looking to level up his skills and always challenged accepted norms. Intense and single-minded, his personality was viewed as being adaptable enough to get whoever he needed to do so to perform or share their knowledge.


He would be seen around the Etihad campus energising other people, but what if you were not part of that pathway? There is the feeling that Arteta’s mindset saw him leave people behind if he thought they were not evolving and bringing new ideas to the table.

That is the price you pay when you work with someone who, in his first days of coaching at City, was described as a “man on a mission”.

Beat City back at the Etihad on Sunday and Arteta will have taken a huge step towards completing the biggest mission of his career so far.

This BBC Guillemot Balague article about Arteta and City/Pep is much better. More interesting, less sycophantic and yet at the same time very complimentary about the job he’s doing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68673970

 

[LookingForEric]

It’s a shame he only plays like 2000-2500 mins a season because Isak would fit us so damn well.

Newcastle won’t get into Europe either so will be forced to sell if we come in. Wonderful, wonderful footballer.

 

[drippin]

We're not back to the beginning we're at the end. You're still talking about Arteta.

It's ok if your English isn't that great, problem is when you reach your C2 levels you'll probably be even more insufferable than you are now.

All you can do is resort to insults, while not being a native English speaker yourself.

It's pitiful mate. You could discuss this normally, but no, you make argumentation mistakes non-stop as your first post was such nonsense. But that makes it understandable, so you do you.

 

[drippin]

Bro it was hyperbole. It’s not a mathematical thing… The point was that it was mainly pep…

Let’s not forget that City won a treble after Arteta left them. And that by the way, is an actual fact.

Yeah, so it was BS, just trying to trigger others. While you claim I'm the one who causes problems here. The mirror is in your house, use it.

Football at top level is a small margins game, you can't seriously claim that Arteta leaving affected City's treble much. He did his job and developed the squad with Pep, and they got the super result in the end.

My estimation is that Arteta might have affected 10-15% of Pep's success at City. I would give similar to Stuivenberg. It's a conservative estimation. That's how great partnerships work.

Even someone like Pep could stagnate if he didn't have someone with original ideas, who he can bounce ideas off with. Pep has said how much he rates Arteta, and he wanted him. Pep doesn't joke around, especially when it comes to achieving success.

 

[LookingForEric]

We're not back to the beginning we're at the end. You're still talking about Arteta.

It's ok if your English isn't that great, problem is when you reach your C2 levels you'll probably be even more insufferable than you are now.

How is a geezer who attacks someone’s English skills trusted on here btw?