PL: Arsenal v Man U | Sun 31st January | 16:00

[Captain]

But the point was that there are teams with a huge gap in overall quality from their stars to other players. You admitted this by saying that the ManU players mentioned were comical and should have cost their team but then proceeded to say that they work hard and get the best out of their stars.

It really can't be both.

 

[ricky1985]

But the point was that there are teams with a huge gap in overall quality from their stars to other players. You admitted this by saying that the ManU players were comical and should have cost their team but then proceeded to say that they work hard and get the best out of their stars.

It really can't be both.

Brown and Evans are squad players. Almunia and Denilson are first XI players, who generally start when fit. On that day they should have cost United because they were awful, you can add Rafael to that too. But all things being equal Vidic and Ferdinand would be starting.

The second point was more about the likes of Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson etc. Not very good footballers, but all have a grasp of the basics of the game, and work damn hard, as a result they actually facilitate United's better players.

Denislon, Nasri, Eboue, all rubbish players currently, and they aren't useful in the same way Fletcher and co. Are either, because they don't do the basics and they don't work hard.

 

[Captain]

Fair enough, they are squad players, but it doesn't negate the point. ManU still played a massive game against close rivals with those (apparently) rubbish players, who should have cost them and won 3-1 on the back of the performances of their better players. Their better players weren't killed by these alleged no marks; instead they stepped up and did the business.

That's going beyond the actual point of my initial comment, but it is still food for thought and may make you start to understand exactly why players get lambasted for ruining key moments. As I said somewhere else, Arshavin's choices were as criminal as the ones by Denilson and Clichy at the other end.

Just to add, you are extremely wide of the mark saying that if Arsh had of squared even one of those balls it would still have been a difficult chance. We had two men standing free in the box both times.

 

[Timleaf]

Maybe the real answer is that Carrick, Fletcher, Brown and Evans are actually pretty good players and very good athletes.

 

[Captain]

I think that, in terms of overall quality, Brown and Evans are comparable to the worst in our squad. Brown just because I don't rate him and Evans because he is still young and learning.

Carrick and Fletcher are indeed good players.

 

[Armor for Sleep]

Maybe the real answer is that Carrick, Fletcher, Brown and Evans are actually pretty good players and very good athletes.

Its no coincidence that Utd have won so many trophies lately with these guys all playing big roles. Brown and Evans are quality squad players while if we signed a player of similar quality and style to either Fletcher or Carrick I would be thrilled.

And thats not wanking over United, its just calling it as I see it. Darren Fletcher is an easy target around here but the truth is our midfield last Sunday was crying out for someone like him.

 

[CKD39]

Fletcher is a superior Flamini.

 

[thegame24]

Fletcher and united were average

I dont get all the hype, we shot ourselves in the foot.

If arshavin wasnt bent we would have been 2-0 in 20 mins.

And people seriously saying uniteds second goal is goal of the season? seriously?

i mean ****ing seriously?

 

[banduan]

And people seriously saying uniteds second goal is goal of the season? seriously?

i mean f****g seriously?

Yeah, go figure.

Wenger was absolutely right in his team analysis, I bloody hope he gave them what for afterwards. We need a change in attitude going to the Bridge

 

[Gurgen]

Thats a nice little rule Gurgen but what about the ease with which teams get through our midfield and our vulnerability to counters? What does your rule do about that? Buying a keeper would be like cellotaping a broken pair of glasses back together instead of going out to buy a new frame.

It is a nice little rule because it's true.

What you're describing has more to do with tactical awareness, discipline and experience. It will improve with time. We played one on one at the back from the 30th minute on Sunday. I don't care if Baresi is at CB and Rijkaard is the DM, you're going to get ripped apart eventually. I don't see how you draw conclusions on the quality of our players based on this tactical ****.

 

[Arsenal_FAN1983]

If our CBs don't go too far foward as often as they do, I strongly believe we would be hard to score against. When Wenger and the players analyse the match on video they will see that we need not to commit defenders forward. Let that to the midfielders and attackers. That is their job to attack, Gallas unfortuantely gets carried away with himself and goes and attacks about too much and he doesn't even attempt to get back.

 

[kel varnsen]

so the talking point now is that our central defenders go forward too often? people didn't seem to mind this when vermalen scored against blackburn earlier this season...

 

[AnthonyG]

so the talking point now is that our central defenders go forward too often? people didn't seem to mind this when vermalen scored against blackburn earlier this season...

I can assure that many did in fact "mind". Or rather, they didn't care for the goals only that the defensive duties were being carried out.

The going forward and perhaps scoring is not the issue, the issue is when, how often, is anyone covering/designated to cover, and the getting back.

 

[HollandGooner]

Its not about Vermaelen getting to much forward in a game,
Our defensive organisation and i mean the whole team needs to work when you lose the ball, they need to regroup, its poor us, that our team cant do that, we will never win something with this kind of players if they are not capable of playing as good defensivly as attacking. we dont have a clue how to defend, when we lose the ball.

 

[irishgunnerz]

Kel - both of them at the same ****ing time shouldnt. Pretty obvious

Thats not criticizing TV in particular but there was a lack of communication at the back there. As a keeper I'd be pissed if my two CB went driving forward AT ONCE leaving a gaping hole behind them. Now Manny should have screamed at one of them but you get the point

 

[kel varnsen]

Kel - both of them at the same f****g time shouldnt. Pretty obvious

Thats not criticizing TV in particular but there was a lack of communication at the back there. As a keeper I'd be pissed if my two CB went driving forward AT ONCE leaving a gaping hole behind them. Now Manny should have screamed at one of them but you get the point

how often does it happen that both cb's go forward? excpet for set pieces...

 

[Armor for Sleep]

so the talking point now is that our central defenders go forward too often? people didn't seem to mind this when vermalen scored against blackburn earlier this season...

Outlaw explained the problem somewhere. Basically its the domino effect, Song covers the CB but usually not enough players drop back a position meaning we leave large gaps in our midfield. Any good side with some attacking intent will exploit us. Add to that our full backs tendency to play high up the field due to our lack of genuine width and we have a big problem when lose the ball.

You will also remember that Blackburn actually got at our backline with ease that day, scoring twice. Only we were so good going forward (RVP was fit), it could have been a tricky game.

 

[Captain]

The defenders go forward because most of the time us and the opposition are both playing a single forward and one of them is a 'free man'.

Song doesn't actually have to drop back into the back four as long as everyone is doing their job, i.e. midfielders aren't bombing beyond the forwards for no reason.

 

[AnthonyG]

But clearly the mid-fielders often do just that - something has to give.

 

[Captain]

Tactical discipline seems alien to all of them (the midfield that is).