Discussion in 'Match Day Archive' started by gooner, Dec 18, 2003.
Bergkamp is starting to look his age though.
He just gets worn out later in the games.
Just got home from watching the game - ah, quite disappointed obviously.
That's 6 out of 12 points the last 4 games, and 3 goals scored...against competition that we'd really expect to get more from.
And Titi goes another league game without a goal...how many is that now, 5..6..7? :shock:
But I think I'm being a little too pedantic. Sure, we seem to be in a bit of a rut right now, but we're still top of the league (though that will probably change soon) and still unbeaten. 8)
My thoughts on the game.... we deserved to draw, even to lose... They pretty much outplayed us the whole game, never really let us into it - though of course, we were playing quite badly as well. The first half was woeful. Second was better, and looked promising after the goal, but then they kept pushing and we didn't really push any harder... *shrugs* Paddy needs more games....looks quite shaky.
But it's not a bad result. Bolton are certainly in form right now, and are very high on confidence. And the poor conditions didn't help either side, but it seemed that Bolton had more desire to win on the day.
PS - Jens was excellent (MOTM for me) and this was the first full game I got to see Clichy play. He looked pretty decent. QUite a pair of legs on him, and nice to see his attacking efforts.
Disappointed we dropped 2 points today, we really need to kill off these games and make sure the other team don't get back. I hear the goal was a 25 yard screamer, not much you can do to stop those tbh. Seemed like the big guns were quiet today which is disappointing. Vieira probably still needs time to really get back in the swing of things.
Am really bamboozled as to why Wenger choses to play Gilberto, Parlour is a player made for these kind of games. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but I'm afraid this guy just doesn't cut it.
What I am annoyed about is some people are questioning the commitment of some of our french players. I understand people questiong Pires as at times he doesn't look interested. In the past Henry has been the same but for the past year I always know he is giving it his all, sometimes it just doesn't happen for him and that is understandable. You can't expect someone to be on fire every week. Now early on the same could be said for Vieria. However don't forget this is the same Vieira who last season played through the pain with an injured knee for quite a few months, he could barely play as he would only last 45 mins before going into a defensive role as his knee just couldn't take it anymore. When most of the team went missing he dragged us through. How the hell can anyone doubt his commitment? He might of had a rough day but this doesn't mean he isn't trying.
Our 3 frenchman have ripped lesser teams apart in the past, just because they don't perform well in a few matches against less sides it doesn't suddenly mean they aren't commited to the cause.
And lets not forget we are in January not May, we can afford to lose points right now. I don't want us drop any points either but it is not that big of a deal. Also still are unbeaten as well, picking up 1 point is better than no points
When your top at xmas you dont win the league, history suggests.
i disagree. its always the same excuse.
United want to win and play with power and grit. Arsenal's backbone is spineless like their coach who refuses to slag of his players and bench them when they are not playing good.
until giberto & cygan are replaced and bergkamp replaced by a class striker we will have more games like this
another thing that bugs me, why is wenger contining with a 35+ player who cannot score for his life reguarly and not play ALI.
where was ALI today?
.....and if Ali hadn't scored you would of cried about how how Wenger was playing inexperienced players.
If we are spineless explain to me why we are joint top? Explain to me why for the past 6 years we haven't finished out of the top 2 and won 2 doubles.
Oh and Wenger did say we were poor today and lacked commitment.
Problem with success is there are bound to be glory hunters like yourself jumping aboard....
Show them Jazz!
Today was a poor performance. But alot of credit must go to Bolton.
i'm not saying that pires, vieira and henry are generally uncommitted players, just that they are too often uncommitted in certain types of games - usually against inferior opposition. it happened loads of times last season, and this season it has happened against pompey, bolton, leicester and even in games that we managed to win, like man city. we can't ignore this problem. I think a lot of this is down to different management styles. It is unthinkable that Ferguson would let, say, Keane, Giggs and RvN treat games as casually as Vieira, Pires and Henry sometimes do (I stress "sometimes"). There are signs that Wenger is becoming tougher (e.g. dropping Pires earlier in the season) but it doesn't seem to have gone far enough, given that these guys continue to treat games like Bolton away as minor chores.
if i suggest that this complacency is a particularly french character flaw, i'll get slaughtered. but the evidence is pretty persuasive. Leaving aside the three players i have mentioned, there are other examples. Wilturd has turned not giving a **** into an art form. Cygan makes mistake after mistake after mistake and then shrugs like he doesn't care (he did it today after he missed another header). The Man Utd team of the past six or seven years (which has dominated english football and won the CL) has only had one french outfield player (silvestre). You get the impression that Ferguson - who puts a higher priority on determination and commitment than any other manager - recognises some kind of character flaw in french players. The hubris with which the french players approached the last world cup resulted in them exiting the tournament without even scoring a goal.
You can afford to have a few of these types of players in your team (especially if they are truly world class like vieira and henry) but they must be balanced by players like keown, parlour, etc who bring other qualities to the table. instead, we are playing cygan and gilberto. that's the problem.
Well I know Man U will absoluteley hammer tottenham tomorrow. Im hoping for some luck but whenever I have relied upon the Trash from the lane to beat them they go and lose 4-0.
I know that we have got a youngish defence but we really need to hold on to leads. Cygan's not good enough. Many of you have said that he's got better but I dont agree. He was at fault for Leicester's late, late goal and you could say that he was at fault for Pederson's goal today. The guy just can't win a header to save his life. The same can be said for Gilberto. He's just not good enough. He always looks knackered! Arsène should realise that loyalty can only get you so far.
i am glad you wrote this. if i had said something similiar , i would have been banned.
we have too many french players.
The same man utd players who got beat by southampton, fulham and chelsea because they simply weren't up for those matches? The same man utd who scraped past wolves in a home match?
Against Portsmouth I dunno what happened to us we were terrible. Against Leicester only Pires was playing and today was just an off day. You can name a few games against lesser teams when they haven't performed I bet I can name more games against lesser team when they have performed.
The french players usually are lazy and Henry + Pires have been guility of this in the past. I have always felt paddy is very different to the other french lot as he isn't like that, he plays through pain to help his side and always gives it his all on the pitch. Vieira has had injuries ruin his season, he can't be blamed for not being match fit after such a long lay off. He was finally getting match fit after his knee injury and then suffered another set back. He need games to get match fit, he is our most consistant player imo.
Pires worries me these days, at times he looks like he is getting back to his best but then suddenly plays poorly. He isn't the player he was but he is getting there.
Henry is just going through a rough spell. He also destroys lesser teams, just sometimes in the bigger matches he hasn't performed, usually coz he is being double man marked. I've lost count of how many matches against big and lesser teams he was won by himself so I hardly think anyone can be in a position to criticise him.
Cygan has made mistakes but he has been in good form. Against Blackburn he was superb, against Inter he was superb. One mistake and suddenly everyone is on his back again. He can do no right in some peoples eyes. After his performance against Blackburn it would of been harsh to drop him as he was possibly our best player. Keown also has just returned after a lay off so it is hardly right to throw him straight in.
Gilberto should not be playing, I just can't understand why Wenger plays him tbh.
No you would of been banned because your a muppet.
Henry gets frustrated when he is being marked by two or more men. He does give his all in matches usually and also agree that he maybe going through a period when he is not in form. Im sure he and the rest of the team will bounce back againest Southampton.
and see wat his ****n Allardyce said
Bolton boss takes swipe at Arsenal's Wenger
tribalfootball.com - December 20, 2003
Bolton Wanderers boss Sam Allardyce has taken a swipe at Arsenal counterpart Arsène Wenger ahead of today's big match.
Speaking about last week's victory at Chelsea, Allardyce said: "Our players were relaxed and Chelsea were edgy and began to tire. I was speechless when I went into the dressing room and you don't say that about me very often.
"And Claudio Ranieri was first-class. He congratulated us.
"Against Arsenal you get a handshake at the dugout from Arsène Wenger and that's it."
He also said, "I see Arsène has been going on courses to stop getting wound up.
"I didn't think people like him got wound up but he did before our match in April.
"I only said I felt the big clubs got the important decisions and the so-called smaller ones did not. We wanted a level playing field but he didn't seem to like that.
"We were out of it at 2-0 but pulled it back and they came off shellshocked. It was their fault, they took their foot off the gas.
"Once we pulled one back they lost it and they realised the title was probably gone.
"United were travelling to Sp**s that day and heard it was 2-0 to Arsenal before they got on the plane.
"By the time they got off it was 2-2 and I know we made them pretty happy.
"But we didn't do it for United, we did it for us."
who the **** does he think he is??
watch when okocha and djorkeaff retire hes goin back down to division 1, ****ing sheep shagger.
someone please tell me way henry 14 is still on this site? please please please explain why this ignoramous is still allowed to piss people off?
i get ****ing warnings for using text language ( for which i apologise) but this guy is still here calling Arsenal spineless and repeating the same damn thing every time.
for gods sake ban him already.
OH yea henry 14 those french players won us the ****ing championship ON BOTH occasions.
Watch him suck up to Fergie at every chance he gets, he loves fergie. He is a ****ing knob.
Also it is abit harsh blaming that goal on Cygan, davis was right infront of him blocking him, how is he suppose to get power on the header?
From the highlights I think we could see how poor Vieira was, I'm shocked tbh he played so bad. The same goes for the rest of our players.
nah i think cygan was poor. he should have headered it and hes too slow and like jgooner said (yes im agreeing with him) he doesnt seem to giv a ****.
vieira MIGHT be regretting signing for us, he keeps mentioning man u and real and about how close he was to signing, WE DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT and that shouldnt be on his mind.
i know he will come good and start playing with a passion again cause he is our captain and he is awesume.
one point though, we beat chels, liverpool and inter without him but we are drawing to loosers with him, surely we he should be makin us stronger not weaker.
maybe the team was trying harder in those games to make up for paddy missing.
either way come on arsenal and i have all the confidence in us to go on and win the QUADTRIPLE
I really don't want to judge the players on ITV's ****e highlights. Sure Bolton did play well, but I am not going to condemn our French players as lazy like some people on here. You just have to accept that Bolton did more than enough to draw on the day and, in fact, it seems as though we did well to get a point.
Allardyce is a ****ing ****. He gets just as much credit for what he has done at Bolton over the last 2 or 3 years as Wenger gets for 7 years of glory at Highbury.
Vieira needs to get back to top form, and quickly. I still stand by my assertion that Edu should be given a chance. I do have faith in wenger, but my faith is not completely blind. As a fan, I will criticise some of his decisions if I feel they are wrong. That does not mean I do not appreciate all he has done for the club. But by putting Gilberto as one of the first names on his team-sheet, I feel he is making a mistake. I do not want to be all doom and gloom, a pessimist, but I do not believe we will win the Premiership this season if he is still first choice at the end of the season.
One might counter that I making Gilberto a scapegoat for all our problems. This is certainly not the case. I do recognise other problems but also see that Gilberto should not be a first choice considering the erratic, inconsistent nature of his form.
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