PL: Cardiff vs Arsenal | September 2nd | KO: 1:30 BST | Sky Sports

[Sniper Mik]

In a word..."No". Goalkeepers are there for the main purpose of stopping goals. For a keeper to play the ball well is a bonus but it is not the main reason for being on the pitch in the same way as a striker who doesn't score goals won't get played as a striker.

We hardly played a long-ball with Wenger as it happens but we are giving the ball to the keeper far too many times, often when he is under more pressure than the guy giving him the ball. This has to stop. You can make a scapegoat out of Cech if you want him dropped but the same thing will happen with Leno.

I disagree with most of what you said. I'm not asking him to become Ederson 2.0. But if you can't make a simple decision between playing a suicidal pass 10 yard when you are being closed down and kicking long then clearly it's a problem. If he is being given the ball 10 times and all of those you are being pressed really hard and you know you don't have the confidence in your kicking then you put your foot through it. It's not that hard. UNLESS you are being instructed to play out from the back no matter how hard they press you. In which case you play a keeper who has more assurance with the ball at his feet. And his shot stopping isn't nearly good enough to warrant taking the risk on him.

 

[Toby]

I agree, even if Emery thinks Leno is going to make mistakes while he adjusts it’s just delaying the inevitable. Should go all in on this rebuild and play Leno + Lucas.

Yep. I also think this would go a long way to calm down and solidify the whole team, despite the other obvious shortcomings.

Leno's ability to play with his feet will take a lot of pressure off the outfield players as they know he can cope.

Torreira is just the superior player to Guendouzi right now; the main difference being Torreira is a vastly more natural defender whose game revolves around winning the ball. His positioning, awareness and perception in regards to being a defensive midfielder are way better than Guendouzi's and it calms the midfield when he's on, even if he doesn't contribute much more, e.g. in terms of passing, although from what I've seen I don't think there's much - if anything - that seperates Lucas' from Matteo's passing.

And in these instances it becomes clear why Xhaka and Ramsey should stay on the field. Torreira keeps their backs clear and lets them to their thing, which is recycling and passing the ball and keep things ticking for Xhaka, and moving around, being an outlet to receive the ball, pressing and being a danger to the opposition for Ramsey.

Anyways, I get the impression Guendouzi is not that natural, all out 6 this midfield seems to need for ages now; he seems closer to a more mobile Xhaka or Rabiot, who is himself more of a box to box mid but has incidentally been used by/was seen by Emery as a defensive midfielder.

Torreira might not be a Xhaka or Arteta, but he's vastly better with his feet than Coquelin. And while he probably isn't the guy to keep the rhythm of a team ticking, we saw in the second half that Özil is absolutely capeable of doing this when central and the team is high up the pitch.

So if Emery is to stay with the 433 it has to be with Leno in goal and Torreira behind Xhaka and Ramsey. That automatically puts Auba left, Laca centre and Özil right for the perceived "best" lineup.

Like I wrote in an earlier post, both wingers drifting in and the fullbacks neither able to cope offensively nor defensively right now, for both individual and systemic reasons (the press/gegenpress doesn't work properly yet) leaves the team too narrow. I think Kolasinac would have been Emery's prime option at leftback for his athleticism to cover all that ground, but he got injured.

If you take into account that Torreira offers the great profile of natural ballwinner/defensive mid with the ability to handle a ball and pick a pass, and Özil being able to pull the strings from central positions, one might think about dropping Xhaka and the midfield 3 without losing either too much defensive cover and ball control, as Torreira and Özil can make up for that with their individual profiles/abilities.

This would open up the right hand side to introduce a winger. While Mkhitaryan himself is a more centrally orientated player, he is way more straight winger than Özil. With him, the right side space in the final third was never as vacated as with Özil today. He can put in a shift and worked in Klopp/Tuchel pressing systems at Dortmund. It would probably not completely solve the width problem, but slightly better it at least.

It's basically trust Torreira and Özil, go back to 4231, and win a bit of width.

I feel that this could be the most potent and solid lineup right now:

Leno
Lichtsteiner Mustafi Sokratis Monreal
Torreira Ramsey
Mkhitaryan Özil Aubameyang
Lacazette
​

 

[dashsnow17]

I know this is like a red reg to a bull right now, but this would be evidence supporting the argument that Xhaka should be kept over Guendouzi. Of course Torreira needs to come in, that is blindingly obvious. But that doesn't mean Xhaka should be dropped.

If Xhaka plays badly even with Torreira next to him, then drop him. But all evidence points towards him being our best constructor of attacks from midfield.

This also really highlights how exposed we are down the right. We're so weighted to the left, no wonder Cardiff got at us. Bellerin needs more protection, I'd argue that Özil will always drift inside so you need Mkhi on the right to help Bellerin a bit more. I also think Torreira would shift more to the right than Guendouzi is doing, although he does try.

 

[Mo Britain]

I disagree with most of what you said. I'm not asking him to become Ederson 2.0. But if you can't make a simple decision between playing a suicidal pass 10 yard when you are being closed down and kicking long then clearly it's a problem. If he is being given the ball 10 times and all of those you are being pressed really hard and you know you don't have the confidence in your kicking then you put your foot through it. It's not that hard. UNLESS you are being instructed to play out from the back no matter how hard they press you. In which case you play a keeper who has more assurance with the ball at his feet. And his shot stopping isn't nearly good enough to warrant taking the risk on him.

Fair enough. But you have here a guy who has been by all accounts one of the best goalkeepers in the world - you don't have to agree with me on that but if you disagree you are disagreeing with everyone who knows anything about football - and that accolade was given because of his work in stopping goals. No one remembers Banks or Yashin or Zoff or Schmeichel because of their passing abilities.

Is he too old? Possibly. But then Emery should have gently shoved him out in the summer rather than playing a system which patently doesn't suit not just his keeper but three-quarters of his defence.

I repeat. Even if you put Özil in goal, he's a great ball-player, we will suffer from playing a system for which most of our players are not suited. Including most of the ones on the bench. I am all for playing football from the back but only to gain an advantage not as a statement of intent. There is no advantage in playing unnecessary balls back to your keeper in the vain hope that he is one of the world's best passers who can pick a sixty yard pass. And there is no advantage in short passes between the keeper and the full-backs which invites pressure from the opposing team and instantly turns the possibility of an attack into a last-ditch defence.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

I know this is like a red reg to a bull right now, but this would be evidence supporting the argument that Xhaka should be kept over Guendouzi. Of course Torreira needs to come in, that is blindingly obvious. But that doesn't mean Xhaka should be dropped.

If Xhaka plays badly even with Torreira next to him, then drop him. But all evidence points towards him being our best constructor of attacks from midfield.

This also really highlights how exposed we are down the right. We're so weighted to the left, no wonder Cardiff got at us. Bellerin needs more protection, I'd argue that Özil will always drift inside so you need Mkhi on the right to help Bellerin a bit more. I also think Torreira would shift more to the right than Guendouzi is doing, although he does try.

No wonder why teams attack our right side d just look at ffs nobody supporting Hector

 

[Football Manager]

Yep. I also think this would go a long way to calm down and solidify the whole team, despite the other obvious shortcomings.

Leno's ability to play with his feet will take a lot of pressure off the outfield players as they know he can cope.

Torreira is just the superior player to Guendouzi right now; the main difference being Torreira is a vastly more natural defender whose game revolves around winning the ball. His positioning, awareness and perception in regards to being a defensive midfielder are way better than Guendouzi's and it calms the midfield when he's on, even if he doesn't contribute much more, e.g. in terms of passing, although from what I've seen I don't think there's much - if anything - that seperates Lucas' from Matteo's passing.

And in these instances it becomes clear why Xhaka and Ramsey should stay on the field. Torreira keeps their backs clear and lets them to their thing, which is recycling and passing the ball and keep things ticking for Xhaka, and moving around, being an outlet to receive the ball, pressing and being a danger to the opposition for Ramsey.

Anyways, I get the impression Guendouzi is not that natural, all out 6 this midfield seems to need for ages now; he seems closer to a more mobile Xhaka or Rabiot, who is himself more of a box to box mid but has incidentally been used by/was seen by Emery as a defensive midfielder.

Torreira might not be a Xhaka or Arteta, but he's vastly better with his feet than Coquelin. And while he probably isn't the guy to keep the rhythm of a team ticking, we saw in the second half that Özil is absolutely capeable of doing this when central and the team is high up the pitch.

So if Emery is to stay with the 433 it has to be with Leno in goal and Torreira behind Xhaka and Ramsey. That automatically puts Auba left, Laca centre and Özil right for the perceived "best" lineup.

Like I wrote in an earlier post, both wingers drifting in and the fullbacks neither able to cope offensively nor defensively right now, for both individual and systemic reasons (the press/gegenpress doesn't work properly yet) leaves the team too narrow. I think Kolasinac would have been Emery's prime option at leftback for his athleticism to cover all that ground, but he got injured.

If you take into account that Torreira offers the great profile of natural ballwinner/defensive mid with the ability to handle a ball and pick a pass, and Özil being able to pull the strings from central positions, one might think about dropping Xhaka and the midfield 3 without losing either too much defensive cover and ball control, as Torreira and Özil can make up for that with their individual profiles/abilities.

This would open up the right hand side to introduce a winger. While Mkhitaryan himself is a more centrally orientated player, he is way more straight winger than Özil. With him, the right side space in the final third was never as vacated as with Özil today. He can put in a shift and worked in Klopp/Tuchel pressing systems at Dortmund. It would probably not completely solve the width problem, but slightly better it at least.

It's basically trust Torreira and Özil, go back to 4231, and win a bit of width.

I feel that this could be the most potent and solid lineup right now:

Leno
Lichtsteiner Mustafi Sokratis Monreal
Torreira Ramsey
Mkhitaryan Özil Aubameyang
Lacazette
​

I’m not against benching Xhaka. But comparing xhaka to Torreria is a wrong comparison.

Torreria should be compare to the likes of coquelin who also focus on defending.
Xhaka should be compare to Guendouzi or Arteta.

So if Xhaka is benched, we need a DM to do the defensive work (Torreira)(we need to get a backup in January because we have no other proper DM)

We need a CM who can make good long passes and dictate tempo to replace xhaka (Guendouzi).

And an AM who can play beautiful through pass and dribble through players with good close control (Özil)(Again we need to get a backup in January, since we’ve lost Cazorla we don’t have a silky AM who can play the AM role other than Özil).

 

[Football Manager]

I know this is like a red reg to a bull right now, but this would be evidence supporting the argument that Xhaka should be kept over Guendouzi. Of course Torreira needs to come in, that is blindingly obvious. But that doesn't mean Xhaka should be dropped.

If Xhaka plays badly even with Torreira next to him, then drop him. But all evidence points towards him being our best constructor of attacks from midfield.

This also really highlights how exposed we are down the right. We're so weighted to the left, no wonder Cardiff got at us. Bellerin needs more protection, I'd argue that Özil will always drift inside so you need Mkhi on the right to help Bellerin a bit more. I also think Torreira would shift more to the right than Guendouzi is doing, although he does try.

No wonder why teams attack our right side d just look at ffs nobody supporting Hector

Bellerín got no defensive support. Xhaka is not a DM and would played well with a proper DM in his past record (and in recent matches). So Torreria is clearly the answer.

And we played a midfield 3 today, Xhaka, Guendouzi and ramsey. If you look at the graph, can you see who is reposible for the huge space being left exposed? Xhaka secured the left, Guendouzi secured the middle......

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

A lot of people have speculated that Emery is waiting for Cech to make a mistake before dropping him, surely the best approach would be to avoid that in the first place by bringing Leno in...

Don't think that speculation holds up really. Cech has made a lot, lot of mistakes, most of course in possession. Emery would by now have enough excuses to drop him imo!

 

[Maybe]

Torreira might not be a Xhaka or Arteta, but he's vastly better with his feet than Coquelin

Based on what we've seen from him, he is much better than Xhaka at everything and at least on the same level as Arteta in terms of ball control and passing. He has exceptional ball skills for his position, looks very calm at everything he does.

 

[Danny_Gooner]

Unai continues to turn to Torreira when we are playing poor (always!) or trailing in a match.... so why does he not start him if he’s the first port of call in every game?!!!?

 

[A_G]

Don't think that speculation holds up really. Cech has made a lot, lot of mistakes, most of course in possession. Emery would by now have enough excuses to drop him imo!

I mean a mistake that leads to a goal.

 

[Finesse]

Xhaka is not the problem. It’s the choice of the Manager that is the problem. He completely messes up the midfield trio by putting circles in squares pegs. The little kid cannot play with Xhaka because that leaves a midfield exposed with no one with enough mobility and ability to press , intercept and win balls etc. None of the above can do that. Hence why are they played there by the manager. The irony is when it goes bad he makes a change at half time to bring on Lucas who comes in and solves the problem instantly. 4 games in a row. Yet he still starts both. Why?

Same scenario with Cech and playing from the back.

Same with Laca coming into the change the game and lead the line better. Lesson learned after 3 games and the fourth game he makes the change and we see the result. Laca and Auba combining and each scoring goals.

 

[Sniper Mik]

 

[Halcyon Daze]

Wouldn’t have been caught on TV, but Mhiki stormed off pitch at final whistle, looked in a right strop. Unai stopped him going down tunnel and told to get back on pitch to applause away boys. Think Laca or Aub then had word with him. Was weird.

 

[Toby]

Based on what we've seen from him, he is much better than Xhaka at everything and at least on the same level as Arteta in terms of ball control and passing. He has exceptional ball skills for his position, looks very calm at everything he does.

His passing is good, but I don't think he's that much of a conductor. He's more Busquets than Alonso or Pirlo, whose playing style is closer to Xhaka and Arteta. Don't think Torreira is someone who can give play rhythm and structure - maybe yet.

 

[tap-in]

*Adjusts tin hat*

Error aside I thought Xhaka had a good game. He made some decent tackles and recycled the ball well. He gave it to Özil when he was in promising positions.

He also looks a level up when Torreira comes on. There’s some there with those pair. I love Guendouzi, he’s an outstanding talent but the games are catching up to him now.

Torreira-Xhaka-Ramsey in a three. Please.

Yep, we need a 3 for sure. I only said yesterday if Emery persists with a 2, we will continue to leak goals. That's 8 conceded in 4 games, he has to change. Xhaka made more than one error but I agree not to drop him, for now.

 

[Apollian]

Reactions on today's win guys. thanks for the support.

 

[Fallout]

i enjoyed Özil's display in the 2nd half when he came deep and central. suddenly we started clicking. can we give him the fabregas role and build the team sheet around him? he's wasted otherwise.

that being said, i thought ramsey was up for it and had his best performance as a #10. he was able to string passes without killing the momentum, and he was incisive going forward. however, i still favor Özil's creativity and would love to experiment with ramsey at RM some time.

on xhaka, i just don't understand what he brings to the table that guendouzi doesnt. fair enough, he's slightly better at playing long passes and passing through the lines. but guendouzi has so many other attributes that are essential for resisting the press and generating offensive momentum. i'd love to see what happens when you pair guendouzi with torreira.

defensively, i actually think we did fine. for the first time this season, we limited counter attacks. they scored off a mistake and a set piece that shouldn't have been given. the rest of their chances came from deep crosses. if there is one criticism i could give to our defense from this match, it's that we didnt make any effort to close down crosses. bellerin in particular just stood off hoilett ... maybe he was afraid of getting beaten off the dribble in yet another game this season.

and just to wrap up, i like what emery is doing with lacazette. he's been our best player this season in my opinion -- critical to our play -- and if he gets injured, i have the feeling that we will struggle badly.

 

[YeahBee]

We could/shoulda /woulda scored a few more goals to make a statement but I am actually quite happy with the game

Their goals were flukish

And the players played like they enjoyed it, seemed to have great positive communication

Love Ramsey's energy

Heck even our yellows (except for Guendouzi's) were good

Özil put in a good for him def work in the first and still shine some going forward

We played abit too flashy in the first

 

[YeahBee]

Ace goals from our king strikers