GeorgiaGunner
#FreeClaude
Fair enough, agreed we could have nicked a point or more. Hard to draw any conclusions from these opening two aside from the forgone one that we'll finish below City.
Shocker, I know.
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PL: Chelsea v Arsenal | August 18, 2018 17:30 BST | BT Sport
- Thread starter A_G
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Shocker, I know.
Country: Australia
I just wish we had set up to nick points from both games , would have given the team bit more confidence and Unai a bit of breathing space.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Do you feel Emery has been to 'gung-ho' or over zealous?
I honestly think he's done alright and been a tad bit unlucky. I agree there's stacks to improve on but I really feel he was dealt a difficult start. This league is just ramping up in competitive nature with each year. Compare Wenger's early years to now. Back then you had what some called 'guaranteed points' (even if they were not really) but now you don't have a single fixture where you can honestly claim, as a football watching fan, are easy games. Having said that, we were dealt a tough start and Unai may have underestimated City but I don't think he made that mistake with Chelsea.
What I have found extremely encouraging is his willingness to hook a player who is having a howler. Özil, Ramsey et al need to pull their socks up if they want to play for this guy. I like that. I can handle losing if our manager shows balls and it was something that always irritated me about Arsène even when we were winning. i Can't stand a lack of effort but even worse is a manager rewarding it.
FreakySami
Well-Known Member
Actually removing Özil and to some extent xhaka (I'll excuse it because he was on a yellow), was one of the main reasons we lost the game and had no ball retention in the second half. We lost our ability to move from back to front and we had less space than in the first half.
He went for something more defensive but we lost our pressing and build up for it. We also have Chelsea so much room in the ball in our final third.
shootxhakashoot
Özil lives rent-free in my head
Plenty of reasons to be cheerful from that game.
We carved Chelsea up from wide positions at times, I understand criticism of Bellerin for his defence (and I would be totally in agreement on that) but actually he does cause a massive threat from wide and he created and played a part in some good chances.
Having a guy like like this is vital if we want to go around teams instead of straight through the middle like we used to under Wenger and it was refreshing to see this and see this getting results, albeit without the goals to show for it at times. Bellerins defensive positioning is another thing but I hope over time we will see a logical answer to that, either from the player himself or from tactical movement behind him when he is bombing forward. Teams like Chelsea and City are always going to hurt us playing like we did, the key is that he carries on doing that when teams sit back, thats when we will get the benefit of going wide to Bellerin/Monreal in the short term. The premier league is made for that kind of game, not tippy tappy through the middle and its good and pleasing to me that Emery has clearly got this figured out already.
The pressing and ball winning in the middle and the effort (from most players) to do this was impressive even though it mostly isnt coming off YET....
I think the manager is working on figuring out the personnel which is why he is sticking largely with the Wenger teams from last year.
Some of those players wont fit the system or rise to the occasion and my personal hope is that then the axe will fall as it should.
There should be no room for passengers in this team and the Guendouzis, Nelsons, Iwobis and Torreiras will be the ones to benefit.
Two of those have already taken their chances. I expect the other two to get game time if certain players dont sort themselves out.
We carved Chelsea up from wide positions at times, I understand criticism of Bellerin for his defence (and I would be totally in agreement on that) but actually he does cause a massive threat from wide and he created and played a part in some good chances.
Having a guy like like this is vital if we want to go around teams instead of straight through the middle like we used to under Wenger and it was refreshing to see this and see this getting results, albeit without the goals to show for it at times. Bellerins defensive positioning is another thing but I hope over time we will see a logical answer to that, either from the player himself or from tactical movement behind him when he is bombing forward. Teams like Chelsea and City are always going to hurt us playing like we did, the key is that he carries on doing that when teams sit back, thats when we will get the benefit of going wide to Bellerin/Monreal in the short term. The premier league is made for that kind of game, not tippy tappy through the middle and its good and pleasing to me that Emery has clearly got this figured out already.
The pressing and ball winning in the middle and the effort (from most players) to do this was impressive even though it mostly isnt coming off YET....
I think the manager is working on figuring out the personnel which is why he is sticking largely with the Wenger teams from last year.
Some of those players wont fit the system or rise to the occasion and my personal hope is that then the axe will fall as it should.
There should be no room for passengers in this team and the Guendouzis, Nelsons, Iwobis and Torreiras will be the ones to benefit.
Two of those have already taken their chances. I expect the other two to get game time if certain players dont sort themselves out.
tap-in
Nothing Wrong With Me
I also think Emery has done ok so far, if Laca had scored in the City game to make it 1-1 who knows. Also how many chances did we miss on Sat! Re your last sentence I was expecting more change in the Chelsea game, on reflection I feel keeping Xhaka was acceptable as it was only the 2nd game, now I want Emery to play Torreira & Douzi as a 2 + Iwobi/Ramsey/Elneny as a 3.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Xhaka's problem (in terms of fan opinion) is that, yes, in hindsight, he had a better game. Yet he's dug such a hole with garbage performances that he's going to have to consistently shine to prove some of the doubters wrong.
Really hope he does but also not prepared to watch it not happen over the course of a whole season as we did with AW in charge.
Country: Australia
Honestly think he should have set up better for these two matches , He had all pre season to prepare for them , he does a lot of videos on opponents I hear . We needed something from at least one of those two matches . The lack of resilience was alarming . To be brutally honest I haven't seen much of what he has done to this point .
Honestly can't remember any guaranteed points back then , muddy pitches , brutal midfield battles , having to win aerial battles over and over . Was hard for teams that wanted to play football they'd get kicked to high in heaven . Easier now for top team , most teams now want to play football , best footballing team wins most of the time .
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Maybe I am looking for things that are not there but I felt in both matches there were periods where his style was quite visible.. Problem is we weren't able to play that way for any sustained period in either match. This is what I base my analysis on. As I say, hope I am not just searching for hidden meanings where there ain't any. Jury is still out for sure.
Country: Australia
Thing is you could be spot on with what you have seen . It's just that I haven't but doesn't mean it isn't there though . He's a very good tactical coach just thought he would have set us up to be more defensively resilient - we have a fragile squad mentality wise
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
This is just the thing and possibly why I am seeing certain things. Almost feels like the players are not quite sure yet and need more time with the system. Let's face it, we're one of few squads around the world where the same man was in charge of the same players for huge chunks of their careers or at least huge chunks of their professional careers (with big clubs). Sure we have some additions etc but for the most part we have a manager trying to implement a vastly different style to one the squad is use to.we have a fragile squad mentality wise
Ironically I'm blaming the players here. Something I'm sure @Makingtrax will point out I never allowed for AW.. My bad Traxxy!
Country: Australia
Yeah that's why I thought he would set them up more defensively get soemthing from the games and build up the confidence a bit . They're still fragile from last year imo .
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
While I myself prefer that style of management others might say the baptism of fire way also has a place. A type of 'shock therapy' if you will
I'm being facetious of course..
say yes
forum master baiter
Disagree. Lacazette made an error but those are the kind of things that happen when a team who’s not very good defensively invite pressure for 45 mins.
Looked a lot like Emery bottled the second half to me. Yes we were too open in the first half but we had Chelsea on the ropes. Sitting back to defend a 2-2 draw and letting them take the initiative (which is exactly how Sarri has set them up to play) was asking for trouble, particularly with our defence.
Give Emery full credit for our first half performance (we should have been 6-2 up), but I also think he deserves the blame for the second half. Guess we’ll have to get used to a manager who actually changes stuff at half time but this time around I think he ****ed it.
tap-in
Nothing Wrong With Me
True, its easy to get a reputation, much harder to lose it. That is the same in all aspects of life. The reason I want Torreira to start so much is because he has the qualities we've been missing for so long. I'd be happy to see Xhaka next to him as long as Douzi still plays. The latter 2 with Torreira just behind would have been my choice vs Chelsea. Having just a 2 vs weaker teams should be enough.
Country: England
Player:Saliba
Pretty sure Gazidis and the interview board wanted Emery to continue with attacking football as a philosophy, but after the **** storm, memes and rants on social media, there would always be a fallout. A lot of the player mistakes last year came from nerves.
He’s doing his best given the circumstances, but anybody expecting him to challenge at the top this year lives in a fantasy land. Building confidence, togetherness and momentum from winning ways will only come with time.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
True. Do we have these fantasy land dwellers lurking here?
Country: England
Player:Saliba
A lot of people called Wenger’s record of 20 continuous years in the top 4, mediocre, despite 7 of those spending below mid table. . . so I’d say there’s probably one or two.
Mo Britain
Doom Monger
Wenger's job in his first few years - which were his most successful - was arguably much easier than what Emery faces.
When Arsène joined Arsenal you had a dominant Manu, a competitive Newcastle and not much more.
Unai is faced with four teams that spend way more than Arsenal (and were all ahead of us last season), a team with a good squad which has outgunned us for two seasons and the danger that there are 2/3 other teams who are not that far behind us and could easily overtake us with reinforcements.
5th would be some kind of achievement but I fear dark days ahead. Whenthe Fifth Place Trophy is all you have to look forward to....
When Arsène joined Arsenal you had a dominant Manu, a competitive Newcastle and not much more.
Unai is faced with four teams that spend way more than Arsenal (and were all ahead of us last season), a team with a good squad which has outgunned us for two seasons and the danger that there are 2/3 other teams who are not that far behind us and could easily overtake us with reinforcements.
5th would be some kind of achievement but I fear dark days ahead. Whenthe Fifth Place Trophy is all you have to look forward to....
Slartibartfast
CIES Loyalist
Still too much handwringing over the results of the first two weekends. Sure, it would have been nice to get a win or at least the draw. But as I've said, beating Manchester City is not the point. Nobody is really expected to do that. When you play away at Chelsea (unless you're City), they're going to be favored. So while finishing ahead of them is a goal for the season, they're really not the point either. The point is not dropping points to teams lower in the table at such an astounding rate as last year.
Arsenal should win its next eight games (they may drop a few points in there, but they will be favored in every one). If they have a good run in those games, they should be playing with confidence and have a better grasp of the system by the time Liverpool visits on Nov. 3. Then they have Wolves and Bournemouth, two more games they should win. This stretch should give us a better indication of just what sort of season Arsenal is going to have.
Had they lost to City in September and away at Chelsea in October while winning the other games around them, nobody would have thought much about it. So don't think much about it. It's just a quirk of the schedule.
I found it amusing that so many pundits predicted that Arsenal would lose 2-0 or 3-0 to City, then when it happened the same pundits seemed shocked that Arsenal lost. Don't let them get you stirred up over the results of the first two weekends. There were a lot of positives and some progress. There are still things to work on. But now is when the rubber hits the road. We'll see what happens over the next two months and then can have a better idea of how things are going.
Arsenal should win its next eight games (they may drop a few points in there, but they will be favored in every one). If they have a good run in those games, they should be playing with confidence and have a better grasp of the system by the time Liverpool visits on Nov. 3. Then they have Wolves and Bournemouth, two more games they should win. This stretch should give us a better indication of just what sort of season Arsenal is going to have.
Had they lost to City in September and away at Chelsea in October while winning the other games around them, nobody would have thought much about it. So don't think much about it. It's just a quirk of the schedule.
I found it amusing that so many pundits predicted that Arsenal would lose 2-0 or 3-0 to City, then when it happened the same pundits seemed shocked that Arsenal lost. Don't let them get you stirred up over the results of the first two weekends. There were a lot of positives and some progress. There are still things to work on. But now is when the rubber hits the road. We'll see what happens over the next two months and then can have a better idea of how things are going.
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