PL: Liverpool vs Arsenal | December 29th | KO: 17:30 | BT Sport

Discussion in 'Match Day Archive' started by OnlyOne, Dec 26, 2018.


Match Prediction

Poll closed Dec 29, 2018.
  1. Liverpool Win

  2. Draw

  3. Arsenal Win

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  1. Furious

    Furious Emery Gone, Telly Back On

    Mustafi is running back in all those pics except when he has to make the decision and try to stop him. Bearing in mind that all of that happened in a split second there's not much all he could've done. Firmino is no Messi but he's a good dribbler and in a situation like that he won't let you go unpunished.

    City just conceded a similar goal, bet you they won't blame Kompany and Laporte but the guy who was dispossessed easily, just like Torreira. But I get it, the usual nonces on here will only blame guys like Mustafi and won't touch favourites like Torreira.
  2. Preacher

    Preacher Always Crying

    I would blame them if they would be repeat offenders. Nobody is mistakes free, you can do it once or twice over the years.
    All over these few years I saw many many similar mistakes from Mustafi. Like I said the man just can't stay on his feet. The ball to him is like red apron to the bull.
    Makingtrax likes this.
  3. Preacher

    Preacher Always Crying

    Tactical analysis. Liverpool exploited all our weaknesses.

    All season we have a problem defending against transitional play, especially in the middle of the pitch. This should be number 1 on Emery's to do list called "problems to fix in the new year".
  4. Rimaal

    Rimaal Questionable Taste

    Keown speaks truth. The coach needs to do more on the training ground.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2018
    celestis, Toby Andrl and Mrs Bergkamp like this.
  5. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants

    Top post.
    ptrcopp likes this.
  6. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants

    Torreira makes a big mistake by giving the ball away needlessly, then Mustafi had no need to throw himself to the ground like that, bro.

    We gifted that goal to Fermino. He didn’t even need to be Bendtner, let alone Messi.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  7. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    They were sitting in 4th and actually finished 4th and got into the CL that season, though - while Arsenal managed to drop from 2nd to 5th place in the same time frame.

    Like them, we're on a bad run of form, but already 5th with one of the worst defenses in the whole league. Not too comparable.
    GeorgiaGunner likes this.
  8. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

    People are angry at Emery for not changing everything overnight, but even a top manager like Klopp was having a tough time 15 months into the job.

    And although they did finish 4th that season, they only clinched that position on the final day of the season. They've struggled against the lesser sides in the league under Klopp plenty until this season.
    Camron likes this.
  9. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    It's not about having a hard time. It's about bizarre decisions, an even worse defence than during Arsène's last seasons, being jumpy and indecisive and not showing a clear idea of what is to happen here. And yes, they clinched it on the last day of that season, but at least they did. Right now nothing looks like Arsenal is clinching anything but 5th or even 6th if Man Utd go on a run. And our squad 18/19 is closer to Liverpool's 16/17 than their 15/16 one in which they finished 8th.

    Having a stuttering motor, some problems here and there, a bit of a lack of quality to cruise into the Top 4, some bad runs some good runs, some football magic and some **** performances, and then finally delivering that Top 4 at the tailgate of the season. That's Liverpool 16/17. As of now that doesn't sound very close to Arsenal 18/19 if you actually look at the performances and by now also at the table.
    carlito'sway likes this.
  10. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

    It doesn't matter what it looks like at the beginning of January, all that matters is what Emery delivers (or doesn't) in May. Things change quickly in football. 4 weeks ago the majority of Emery's critics didn't bother posting on A-M, City were going to win the league unbeaten, Sp**s were 5th etc.
    Liverpool added Mane, Wijnaldum and Matip in 2016. Not like their squad was dramatically different from October 2015 when he started to May 2017 when they got CL football. Besides, a Liverpool were known for their pressing under Rodgers so it wasn't a huge adjustment for their players to transition to Klopp.
  11. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    So you're actually reinforcing my argument that Liverpool's squad in 16/17 wasn't so overwhelmingly strong that them fighting for 4th over the course of the season was catastrophic for them...just as it shouldn't be catastrophic for us now, as our squad has a Top 4 finish in it. Slowly loosing touch with the Top 4 and regressing on field performances are troubling signs, though. For us now, that is.

    You're right, of course. The final table in May counts. I'm just pessimistic. And in my opinion rightly so, as I have not been one of those critics that was silent 4 weeks ago but already saw some of those problems surfacing now and raised concern. And for now it just looks to get worse instead of better so I'm not expecting a massive turnaround. I was also pretty sure City weren't going to go unbeaten, there's a post somwhere, - win the league, probably, but not unbeaten. What comes quite unexpectedly to me is Liverpool's unbeaten run and City's recent little slump.
    Tom349 likes this.
  12. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

    I've always expected top 4 from this season. The squad is flawed but there's definitely enough talent to get into the CL through the league or EL. I do back Emery but as I've said, that doesn't mean he gets a free pass for the season.
    Those were just general statements about the perceptions people had about certain teams a few weeks ago. Arsenal and City dropping off to this extent in recent weeks wasn't forseen by many, IMO things can change just as quickly in the other direction if Emery starts better utilising the talent at his disposal and 1 or 2 signings in January.
  13. Trilly

    Trilly Full-Time Respecter Of Women Trusted

  14. GeorgiaGunner

    GeorgiaGunner #FreeClaude

    Nice breakdown. Think 5-1 flattered us in some regards (especially re: weakness to press and defensive fragility), penalties notwithstanding.
    Makingtrax likes this.
  15. rich 1990

    rich 1990 Not A Big Believer In Diversity

    krackpot and GeorgiaGunner like this.
  16. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    What that video shows to me is that

    a) when a team defends so narrow and high you also have to be more aggressive towards the ball like Simeone teams, cause leaving acres of space to the opposition while also giving them time on the ball is bad - you have to disturb their play, not just follow the ball

    or b) get the team to shift more quickly and more decisively to have the opportunity to use the offside trap for players coming from deep. We sat comfortably in the centre of the pitch (vertically) but didn't force Liverpool to pass the ball back decidedly enough and then shift higher starting with the first line. You either force back their fullbacks freed up by our horizontal shifting or you are high enough to try and use offside

    c) Assignments to players/zones and when to take over players is completely off. There's an early scene in the vid in which Kolasinac gets dragged from his leftback position across the central defence by Salah which opens up space for Shaqiri. The left CB has to take over the forward making the central diagonal run so Kola can keep the left tight while the whole team shifts slightly deeper and left.

    That last one is the most glaring one. The assignments and when to take over players is horrible. It isn't working at all. The players are getting lured out and destroy shape all the time.
    krengon, Big Poppa and celestis like this.
  17. Big Poppa

    Big Poppa Established Member Trusted

    As a club we need to move away from this mentality of individuals fixing our defensive issues. They will certainly help and we need reinforcement but we have a problem with our defensive infrastructure and culture and that is the biggest issue.

    Otherwise it's like buying a better boiler and putting it in a house with poor insulation and single glazed windows then being shocked that your house freezes over when that boiler breaks down. A lot gets made of van Dyke's impact to Liverpool since he signed, but people forget that they basically replaced Coutinho with an extra CM to provide more doggedness in front of that defence.

    Coutinho is a great player, but Liverpool have improved markedly since because the balance of the team is much more important than the skill of an individual. It's why I don't get the whingeing over the absence of Özil, who in my opinion is vastly inferior to Coutinho.

    We struggle to move the ball quickly up the pitch and our lack of directness means we need a lot more of the ball to create chances. It also means that we have to be further up the pitch (on average) to be dangerous. The problem with that is that good teams will pick you off, Like Liverpool did. It's all inherent risk, bubbling under the surface.

    We don't transition quickly enough between attacking and defensive phases of play. Our players take too many touches and we rely on the efficiency of our strikers to mask it. These are problems that Emery understands but take time to fix.

    You aren't going to find a silver bullet for this problem - it took Klopp 3 years.
    krengon likes this.
  18. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

    Great article. I was honestly more impressed by Liverpool in the 5-1 in 2014 or the 4-0 last year. In this game we saw things like Lichsteiner kicking the ball straight at Mustafi with his left foot, when he could've easily cleared it with his right. Also a series of uncharacteristic mistakes from Torreira that led to goals, you just can't plan for that as a manager.

    Reminded me of a 2-0 loss at Chelsea, Wenger set the team up in a 4-1-4-1 he hadn't used before with that particular lineup of players and it worked perfectly until he was undone by individual errors: Koscielny taking Hazard out in the area to concede a penalty and then the CB's misjudging a simple long ball down the middle that allowed Costa to score. The narrative after the game was that Wenger failed again even though he clearly learned from the 6-0 at the Bridge months earlier.
    Trilly, celestis, krackpot and 4 others like this.
  19. BobP

    BobP Memri Fan

    I agree.

    Like it's obviously a disappointing result but it's best to look at games like these in isolation.

    Liverpool's first goal was the kicker for me. The sort of goal which would prompt one to rage quit on FIFA. The fact that we conceded almost immediately after scoring ourselves, and the nature of the goal we conceded, sort of galvanised Liverpool.

    Then you concede another and all of a sudden you're chasing the game which forces you to open up.
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