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PL: Manchester United vs Arsenal | 09/04/06

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
phonics said:
Did anyone feel like they had constant slow motion replay on whenever Pires got the ball? f**k me he needs to go to the italian league sharpish he never got past a jogging pace.

Problem with Robert at the moment is he is not as good as he thinks he is .
 

Army of Me

Established Member
phonics said:
Did anyone feel like they had constant slow motion replay on whenever Pires got the ball? f**k me he needs to go to the italian league sharpish he never got past a jogging pace.
whenever he got the ball I found myself shouting "quickly now!" - i can't believe how crap he was on sunday.
 

Tegh

Established Member
He hasn't got the pace he once had, which makes him more often than not, ineffective on the wing.
 

dafish

Active Member
i think there were a number of reasons we lost the match.

1) ball possesion. we gave it away in the middle or at the edge of their box far too many times. we like to play wide and stay on the wings, but we give it away when we try to cut it back into the middle.

2) support from each other. there has been many moves where it looked like a one man show where helb, ade or eboue preferred the dribble over the pass when it was obvious they were going no where, even if they had beat the man.

3) In my opinion the BIGGEST mistake is formation. we are the meanest defense in Europe because we played 4-5-1 and when we do, its damn near impossible to out muscle a midfield consisting 3 of cesc, gilberto, diaby, or freddy in the middle. Wenger i felt rested Henry because he'd be satisfied with a draw in my opinion. so why the attacking formation of 4-4-2? i really wonder.

Gilberto had to run all night to plug gay-boy and giggs depending on which side they attack, and if he fails, toure or senderos had to cover the full backs, leaving a huge hole in the box, opening up not so much for the striker, because one CB will still be free to mark him, but the AM in Rooney which is where gilberto is suppose to be.
 

kanooo

Well-Known Member
putra_sas said:
IMO both adebayor and persie are both same brand of players...

if you notice. both of them like to play centrally. adebayor was used by Deschamps as a RF(right forward) but it doesn't work.

when henry play adebayor/persie we can see a compatible combination. henry loves to play close to the side. that is why henry and reyes rarely understand each other.

BECAUSE they play in the same position. i would have prefer adebayor/persie to partner reyes last night. if wenger insist to rest henry.

Your thinking is interesting although I'm not quite sure if Ade and RvP are that similar. ..
 

dafish

Active Member
kanooo said:
putra_sas said:
IMO both adebayor and persie are both same brand of players...

if you notice. both of them like to play centrally. adebayor was used by Deschamps as a RF(right forward) but it doesn't work.

when henry play adebayor/persie we can see a compatible combination. henry loves to play close to the side. that is why henry and reyes rarely understand each other.

BECAUSE they play in the same position. i would have prefer adebayor/persie to partner reyes last night. if wenger insist to rest henry.

Your thinking is interesting although I'm not quite sure if Ade and RvP are that similar. ..

ade and RVP are similar in that they can act as ball holding forward to create chances, can dribble on their feet, don't mind passing to create chances for others and is equally adept at finishing with their head or feet (relative to their natural goal scoring instinct ofcourse).

however the difference is ade enjoys dropping deep to gather the ball and then running and making use of his unusual amount of pace for a big man. (kanu comparison stops right there) This opens up channels for the other forward to operate.

RVP on the other hand doesn't like such long runs with the ball. he prefers to get it, look for the first mistake a defender makes, shimmies and shoot. RVP also likes to drift around the box. he's not as direct as Ade.
 

non flying dutchman

Active Member
I think wenger took a gamble and obviously it didn't come off, but it could easily have and we'd all be shouting about how great a manager he is.

In my opinion he was right to rest henry, the guy is our most influential player and in a game where the 3 points aren't definate (in fact I think most arsenal fans would have been over the moon beforehand to come away with a point after a big game midweek) and games are coming up where we need him to be sharp and if he is we've got a much bigger chance of getting the three points in those games than at old trafford.

The defence picks itself at the moment, I am unsure why sol didn't travel, but I am almost certain senderos will get a rest on wednesday and he will play, meaning the only four players who have played every game the past month will be flamini, toure, gilberto and eboue, everyone else has had at least one or two games out.

Toure and eboue are irreplaceable at the moment, and flamini will get a rest any game now with cole and glichy getting closer to fitness.

Gilberto could be rested, but a lot of our solidity at the moment is because he's sticking to his job, and giving diaby or cesc that role doesn't really suit them, and our whole shape goes out the window.

Remember fourth spot is still in our hands if we win all our games, which we are more than capable of
 

kel varnsen

Established Member
RocktheCasbah said:
vanderguy said:
Scorpion you are a gutless coward if van persie hits form and you start praising him then i will know you are a coward.you are adebayor's lil fan boy.why cant you reply my post about rooney and van persie without being stupid why?you are coward who fantasies about adebayor. :?

Maybe because your post about van Persie being better than Rooney is a load of bollocks?

I'm not really sure what Adebayor did so wrong on Sunday that merits the comments he has received. He played much more intelligently than the boy wonder.

disagree. ade has played well so far, but was very poor on sunday. van persie worked much harder, moved far better off the ball and was basically our only goal threat up front. ade was lousy in the first half and slightly better in the 2nd. all in all, a very disappointing match from him...
 

Gurgen

Established Member
raphael_as said:
Gah.

Chances of our best team beating ManUtd at Old Trafford, or even getting a point after a midweek CL game were always very, very slim.
We could lose to Pompey, only we won't, because we'll have our best players rested and not suffering from the psychological blow of losing to ManUtd with a full strength team. That's the point.

But I guess you know best.
Really - we rested our best players did we? Cesc spent the day at home in front of the telly right?...... Henry didn't come on for the last 20?....Hleb?.....Eboue?.....Toure?.....Lehmann?......

I could understand it if we had fielded a defensive minded 4-5-1 side with the obvious aim of giving the lads a rest for a game we could (just about) afford to lose so that they would be fresh for the next 18 days. I'd have been disappointed to be sure, but it makes sense when we have bigger/different fish to fry.

But we didn't do that, hell we didn't even come close - The fact of the matter is that the only players we rested from the Juve game were Reyes (if he was rested as opposed to it being a tactical move by AW) - I suppose Henry and Lundberg could be considered to be half-rested.

Cesc hardly ran and was taken off unfit, Henry never even touched the ball.

So yeah, they didn't exactly wear themselves out.
 

Rocafella

Established Member
I tell you one thing, Ade would of been able to hold the ball off from Vidic if it was him there instead of Van Persie who was just completely beaten to the ball.
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
kel varnsen said:
RocktheCasbah said:
vanderguy said:
Scorpion you are a gutless coward if van persie hits form and you start praising him then i will know you are a coward.you are adebayor's lil fan boy.why cant you reply my post about rooney and van persie without being stupid why?you are coward who fantasies about adebayor. :?

Maybe because your post about van Persie being better than Rooney is a load of bollocks?

I'm not really sure what Adebayor did so wrong on Sunday that merits the comments he has received. He played much more intelligently than the boy wonder.

disagree. ade has played well so far, but was very poor on sunday. van persie worked much harder, moved far better off the ball and was basically our only goal threat up front. ade was lousy in the first half and slightly better in the 2nd. all in all, a very disappointing match from him...

Heh, yeah, kinda thought you might...

Oh well. Can't be arsed to justify myself on this one, but van Persie wouldn't have scored against that United defence if we'd still been playing now.
 

Lukazan

Established Member
I am not sure how you can say that when RVP should have scored one, and made 2-3 chances for himself. Admittedly the ones he got on target were saved comfortably by VDS, but RVP could easily have caught one sweetly and watched it fly in to the bottom corner, his first chance for example.
 

Tony Montana

Established Member
RocktheCasbah said:
kel varnsen said:
RocktheCasbah said:
vanderguy said:
Scorpion you are a gutless coward if van persie hits form and you start praising him then i will know you are a coward.you are adebayor's lil fan boy.why cant you reply my post about rooney and van persie without being stupid why?you are coward who fantasies about adebayor. :?

Maybe because your post about van Persie being better than Rooney is a load of bollocks?

I'm not really sure what Adebayor did so wrong on Sunday that merits the comments he has received. He played much more intelligently than the boy wonder.



disagree. ade has played well so far, but was very poor on sunday. van persie worked much harder, moved far better off the ball and was basically our only goal threat up front. ade was lousy in the first half and slightly better in the 2nd. all in all, a very disappointing match from him...

Heh, yeah, kinda thought you might...

Oh well. Can't be arsed to justify myself on this one, but van Persie wouldn't have scored against that United defence if we'd still been playing now.
My analysis (not that it matters) is that Ade is quite good at holding up play and giving it out wide or back or wherever, it's just that is close control in front of goal is not up to scratch. He needs a lot of time probably because of his long legs.

Van Persie on the other hand sometimes is too quick and shoots when he needs to pass it out wide. His shots are more accurate but weren't any stronger than Ade's ones. Notice Ade's last shot at goal, it was powerful. There was one time when Ade turned so swiftly and nicely but his long pass was terrible. If it was Henry it would have been at least more accurate.
 

Tony Montana

Established Member
The problem with Arsenal as a whole is that we still try and find the perfect goal. Van Persie does not and that helps us at times. On the other hand, when we can find 'the last pass' or give it out wide RVP still shoots. We need to find a better balance. Hleb is getting better at this. He shoots a tiny bit more but needs to shoot even more. Eboue needs to get crosses in sharply (and accurately) because I swear down, if he did that at Juve the score would not have been 0-0. Neither would the score have been 2-0 at Old Trafford but more like 1-1 or 2-1 to Manure.
 

Mbaki Mutahaba

Established Member
kel varnsen said:
disagree. ade has played well so far, but was very poor on sunday. van persie worked much harder, moved far better off the ball and was basically our only goal threat up front. ade was lousy in the first half and slightly better in the 2nd. all in all, a very disappointing match from him...

I guess we were watching a different game for you to say RvP worked harder !! Please give me the definition of "working harder".
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
LuKaZaN said:
I am not sure how you can say that when RVP should have scored one, and made 2-3 chances for himself. Admittedly the ones he got on target were saved comfortably by VDS, but RVP could easily have caught one sweetly and watched it fly in to the bottom corner, his first chance for example.


"should... could...."

Did he score?

Did he even look like scoring after the first 20 minutes?

Sometimes it isn't your day, it isn't your match and Sunday definitely wasn't Robin's.

I can say these things because whilst I believe in van Persie and I like his attitude, he is not the finished article. I can say these things because he has scored 6 goals in 18 Premiership matches this season- which indicates to me that there are 12 games that he hasn't scored in. I can say these things because most of van Persie's goals have been footnotes to a victory already acheived. I can say these things as I'm not 100% certain what Robin brings to the team if not scoring goals.
I can say these things because van Persie has still to really impress in an extended run as a first XI player.


So, that's how I can say what I did, if that's okay with you?
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
Tony Montana said:
The problem with Arsenal as a whole is that we still try and find the perfect goal. Van Persie does not and that helps us at times. On the other hand, when we can find 'the last pass' or give it out wide RVP still shoots.

The main source of my frustration on Sunday. Nicely surmised (all of it, not just the bit in bold).
 

Lukazan

Established Member
RocktheCasbah said:
So, that's how I can say what I did, if that's okay with you?

Alright mate, there is no reason to get snarky. I was just commenting on your statement on RVP not scoring even if we were still playing the game today, which I disagree with. I also feel your post, the response to what I said, has little to do with your original statement tbh.
 

kel varnsen

Established Member
Mbaki Mutahaba said:
kel varnsen said:
disagree. ade has played well so far, but was very poor on sunday. van persie worked much harder, moved far better off the ball and was basically our only goal threat up front. ade was lousy in the first half and slightly better in the 2nd. all in all, a very disappointing match from him...

I guess we were watching a different game for you to say RvP worked harder !! Please give me the definition of "working harder".

ran more. do you want me to give you the definition of 'run' and 'more' as well...?
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
LuKaZaN said:
RocktheCasbah said:
So, that's how I can say what I did, if that's okay with you?

Alright mate, there is no reason to get snarky. I was just commenting on your statement on RVP not scoring even if we were still playing the game today, which I disagree with. I also feel your post, the response to what I said, has little to do with your original statement tbh.

Snarky? No, just trying to back up what I originally said, you feel it has little to do with what I did say. Fair enough.

You get feelings about games, I had a feeling that if we didn't score in the first 15 when we were playing well, we never would. We didn't. Hence my comment about van Persie not scoring if we were still playing today. I think his decision making on the day was appalling, and to be honest it was essentially as unproductive as one of Reyes' many runs down a blind alley way and into the clutches of a massed defence.

You're dealing in hypotheticals, of course one of his shots might have flown into the top corner, but it didn't, did it? And whatever chances we might have had to build an attack on the edge of the United box were lost by van Persie's selfish shooting from distance.
 
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