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PL: Manchester United vs Arsenal | 09/04/06

Captain

Established Member
I'm quite sure that Ade ran more and was generally more involved in the play, but I could be wrong.

Neither particularly set the world alight on Sunday.
 

kel varnsen

Established Member
Captain said:
I'm quite sure that Ade ran more and was generally more involved in the play, but I could be wrong.

Neither particularly set the world alight on Sunday.

although i was watching it on tv and you miss a lot of running off the ball, there is still no doubt in my mind that van persie worked a lot harder. he was the one making most of the runs off the ball, he was the one who tried to close down manu's defenders and van der saar and he looked in general much more mobile. ade was a big, big disappointment...
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
Adebayor played much deeper than van Persie, seemed to me he was trying to link the play (difficult with a static midfield) whilst van Persie was the end point for most of our attacks.
 

Gurgen

Established Member
Both were poor, but Adebayor was slightly better.

That said, I'd shoot from distance too if there was nobody to be seen for 20 yards except for Robert Pires taking a stroll in the sunshine, and Ferdinand and Vidic were about to close me down. RvP had no support at all and did what he could. Whack it at goal.
 

Lukazan

Established Member
RocktheCasbah said:
You're dealing in hypotheticals, of course one of his shots might have flown into the top corner, but it didn't, did it? And whatever chances we might have had to build an attack on the edge of the United box were lost by van Persie's selfish shooting from distance.

But I'm sick of seeing 'chance building' on the edge of team's boxes. Yes against Aston Villa or Sunderland it'll work, but how many bloody times do we have to see it happen against the likes of Man U and Chelsea before the fact it's never going to work is drilled in to some of our player's heads.

There are more ways than one to play football and at times it just seems as though our players don't understand that.

To be completely honest I'd fancy van Persie to slam a shot in to the back of the net from the edge of the area over us passing our way through a backline of Neville, Rio, Vidic and Silvestre, not to mention the other 4-5 Man United shirts behind the ball most of the time too.

Heh, this whole Ade V RVP is creating a war all over the forum. :D
 

Mbaki Mutahaba

Established Member
RvP is not a hard working striker..i rate him highly but lets just call a spade a spade. Ade has shown much more hunger in fighting and running for the ball..since Jan then RvP has since he came. But RvP is our executioner. You deliver and he will execute. He is there for that.and i love him for that. No need to give him something he doesn't. He can't be a rooney..cos rooney works has ass off..but doesn't the real natural talent/skills as RvP. They are both very strong mentally..and very confident and of course fat rooney has a greater physical presence.

Ade is not and can never be an RvP type. But both of them bring something different in our team..and what they lack..is compensated by other teammates ..isn't that the whole concept. I stated so many times before..RvP in a game that he doesn't score..will find it hard to convince people he added a lot to that game. While the Reyes..and even now Ade mighht still show they added to the team without scoring or even assisting. Am glad we have that combination of players. You look at Henry, RvP, Ade, Reyes(as a striker), Bergy..they all are very different players..who bring someting special to the team. Sometimes..an RvP is important..and sometimes he is better on the bench. Same goes to everyone there but Henry..who is and will always be important.
 

the dawn raids

Established Member
Gurgen said:
That said, I'd shoot from distance too if there was nobody to be seen for 20 yards except for Robert Pires taking a stroll in the sunshine, and Ferdinand and Vidic were about to close me down. RvP had no support at all and did what he could. Whack it at goal.

this is the where the argument kind of seems pointless for me. how would van Persie have fared when we played, for example, Charlton a few weeks ago when the squad was much fresher and the opponent much weaker? for all we know van Persie wouldnt have wasted those chances Ade did and would have had a hat trick. then wed be arguing for what it would take for Ade to get back into games rather than van Persie.

basically both are going to be assessed unfairly until we see how they play in every kind of game, home and away, with Henry and without. or Henry could leave and then theyd have to start together, who knows.
 

Captain

Established Member
I think that RvP works hard; but in different ways.

I said in the other thread; overall they are both currently operating at the same level of play.

Their styles are different and they excel in different areas, but isn't that the point of having striking options?
 

Tony Montana

Established Member
LuKaZaN said:
But I'm sick of seeing 'chance building' on the edge of team's boxes. Yes against Aston Villa or Sunderland it'll work, but how many bloody times do we have to see it happen against the likes of Man U and Chelsea before the fact it's never going to work is drilled in to some of our player's heads.

There are more ways than one to play football and at times it just seems as though our players don't understand that.

To be completely honest I'd fancy van Persie to slam a shot in to the back of the net from the edge of the area over us passing our way through a backline of Neville, Rio, Vidic and Silvestre, not to mention the other 4-5 Man United shirts behind the ball most of the time too.

Heh, this whole Ade V RVP is creating a war all over the forum. :D

This post brings me to my next point.

As I said before, we still try and walk the ball into the net which is kind of funny sometimes when we are winning but also unbelievably annoying when we are not. I never cheer until the ball is right at the back of the net because you never know for Arsenal. :roll:

Their heads were still in Turin so they played as if they were still in the CL which cost us the game on Sunday. Notice how Pires strolled to the opposition box and then passed sideways while Giggs, Rooney among others raced to ours. They were more direct. They didn't bother dilly dallying around our area. Even when we were 2-0 down with minutes to go we carried on trying to make the perfect goal but that is not always necessary.

There is an underlying theme here though as we get ready to close this thread. :wink: When we are 1-0 down we need a bit of heart and fight that we show in the CL. So far this season I ahve not seen it in abundance. I doubt Real Madrid or Juve could win the english league if they were thrown in because of that. This is just the way the premiership is like. For Arsenal it's just ability, ability and more ablility but when we are short in certain games to rely on what we can do skilfully, heart and fight must come through. Manure do this better than us, as do Liverpool, as do Chelsea. Scoring the crappy goal or shooting from far can be the answer a lot of the time.
 

Captain

Established Member
Turning and shooting isn't a problem.

The problem is dribbling forward a little bit, cutting back one way, then another, then losing the ball. Meanwhile all your team-mates are standing stationery because they have no clue what is going to happen and they are open for a pass which never comes.

Passing and moving is the Arsenal way now, so RvP has to get on-board or leave.
 

kel varnsen

Established Member
Gurgen said:
That said, I'd shoot from distance too if there was nobody to be seen for 20 yards except for Robert Pires taking a stroll in the sunshine, and Ferdinand and Vidic were about to close me down. RvP had no support at all and did what he could. Whack it at goal.

ade didn't help rvp out at all. i lost count on the number of times van persie had to stop and wait for the rest(aka pires, ade and hleb) to push up.

van persie had no choice but to take a few shots...
 

Captain

Established Member
Conversely VanPersie didn't help Ade out either.

In fact nobody helped anyone else out; very disjointed performance.
 

Captain

Established Member
In the first half Ade was playing up top and he got close to VanPersie many times; too close alot of the time.

He was definitely playing right up top though, which is why Hleb was finding him with the ball more often then VanPersie.

It was only after the 25/35 minute mark that Ade started dropping deeper (which starngely made the situation worse instead of better).

Personally, I believe that VanPersie's best partner would be Reyes (and he may even be a good partner for Ade).
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
To me RVP would have been better served with Reyes playing on the wing , Pires was too far away from the attacking 3rd when he passed to Van Persie resulting in him shooting from far out. Reyes like him or not , has the ability to carry the ball from defence to deep into attack, draw players giving the attacking two space to work with . By the way has anyone seen RVP shoot with his right ? Too many time he wasted oppurtunities and lost the ball trying to work a shot with his left.
 

Lukazan

Established Member
Yes.

His second goal against Prague was with his right, and it was a lovely firt time placed finish.

Also remember him, either this season or last, JUST missing the near top corner with a right footed striker from outside the area.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
Tony Montana said:
LuKaZaN said:
But I'm sick of seeing 'chance building' on the edge of team's boxes. Yes against Aston Villa or Sunderland it'll work, but how many bloody times do we have to see it happen against the likes of Man U and Chelsea before the fact it's never going to work is drilled in to some of our player's heads.

There are more ways than one to play football and at times it just seems as though our players don't understand that.

To be completely honest I'd fancy van Persie to slam a shot in to the back of the net from the edge of the area over us passing our way through a backline of Neville, Rio, Vidic and Silvestre, not to mention the other 4-5 Man United shirts behind the ball most of the time too.

Heh, this whole Ade V RVP is creating a war all over the forum. :D

This post brings me to my next point.

As I said before, we still try and walk the ball into the net which is kind of funny sometimes when we are winning but also unbelievably annoying when we are not. I never cheer until the ball is right at the back of the net because you never know for Arsenal. :roll:

Their heads were still in Turin so they played as if they were still in the CL which cost us the game on Sunday. Notice how Pires strolled to the opposition box and then passed sideways while Giggs, Rooney among others raced to ours. They were more direct. They didn't bother dilly dallying around our area. Even when we were 2-0 down with minutes to go we carried on trying to make the perfect goal but that is not always necessary.

There is an underlying theme here though as we get ready to close this thread. :wink: When we are 1-0 down we need a bit of heart and fight that we show in the CL. So far this season I ahve not seen it in abundance. I doubt Real Madrid or Juve could win the english league if they were thrown in because of that. This is just the way the premiership is like. For Arsenal it's just ability, ability and more ablility but when we are short in certain games to rely on what we can do skilfully, heart and fight must come through. Manure do this better than us, as do Liverpool, as do Chelsea. Scoring the crappy goal or shooting from far can be the answer a lot of the time.

I was under the same impression Tony , why the heck are they strolling to the box ? to me it looked lethargic , but something Arsène said today made me think that maybe that is a stratergy they used to get teammates into the game. He was talking about Hleb which answered why he sort of meandered into attack like he did on occasions.

This is what he said:
"He can create a partnership with the full back, gain time and wait for one who comes from deep. It means there is the opportunity to play inside and also wide."

I guess thats why Pires was strolling infield with the ball. He was too predictable as he did not go outside once - I lie, I did see him do it once!
 

tristan

Active Member
Seriously. Regarding the Toure save, how hard were you guys on Drogba for blatant handball? Now when your lot does the exact same thing you're laughing and praising him. Tad hypocritical, no?
 

Army of Me

Established Member
tristan said:
Seriously. Regarding the Toure save, how hard were you guys on Drogba for blatant handball? Now when your lot does the exact same thing you're laughing and praising him. Tad hypocritical, no?
yea but **** it, who cares?
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
tristan said:
Seriously. Regarding the Toure save, how hard were you guys on Drogba for blatant handball? Now when your lot does the exact same thing you're laughing and praising him. Tad hypocritical, no?

I'm sure even a Chelsea fan like yourself is well aware of the "ref" justice Arsenal have suffered at Old Trafford across the last four years so the answer to that should be obvious, we'll take it when we get it.

Besides which, Senderos would have blocked the shot anyway.
 

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