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Player Ratings - PL: West Brom. Albion vs Arsenal | 02/05/05

asajoseph

Established Member
Frankly, I found the whole game so uninspiring, I can't really be bothered to write much about it. The first half was incredibly dull, neither side creating anything, although it improved in the second. Anyway...

Jens Lehmann - Didn't have a great deal to do today, perhaps could have held on to Richardson's shot, but it was pacey. Otherwise, a quiet, but largely flawless display. 6.5

Lauren - Not bad, and occasionally looked capable of providing something going forward, feeding Reyes on occasion. Gave the ball away in dangerous situations though, and often wasn't concentrating fully. 6

Kolo Toure - Like most of the team today, was very wasteful in possession, got caught out horribly towards the end, but made up for it with a big slide across the player. Also gave the ball away in dangerous positions on several occasions. But the defence never looked too troubled, so credit where it's due I suppose. 6

Philippe Senderos - Mammoth defensively today. Looked very mature sheperding players, using his strength well, and looked pacey on occasion. HOWEVER, how many times, particularly in the first half, did he just hoof the ball up the pitch, to nobody in particular, other than Russell Hoult? Sure, he's not supposed to be the creative spark in the team, but must learn to not be so wasteful. 8

Ashley Cole - Generally a good performance, again looked like a possible attacking outlet, but stalled when he got over the halfway line on most occasions. Defensively he was ok, until the last 10 minutes, when he started diving in, either because he was tired or panicking. The link up play with Pires was not particularly profitable today. 7

Cesc Fabregas - At times, he looked like one of our best players, passing the ball sublimely, and one of the only people on the field able to find his first touch. He got up when he was clattered, made a splendid tackle on Gera, and did a lot of running on the wing. He got caught in possession several times in the second half, and I suspect that fatigue might have had something to do with it. Needed to be taken off, really, and Wenger duly obliged. 7

Vieira - A very mixed bag. He really worked today, and kept running all the way through, really looking like he was trying to run the game. His passing though, was erratic. Sometimes excellent, at others straight at WBA players. On the ball he was strong as ever, but the team, as a whole, wasn't offering many outlets. 7.5

Gilberto - Now, it pains me to say this, because I really do recognise the worth of this guy, but this was without doubt the worst performance I've seen him put in in an Arsenal shirt. He offered nothing going forward, not making any passes, or runs, nor was he able to get involved breaking up the attacks. He improved a little in the second half, although he did have his mandatory air shot (he seems to take one a game these days!) in the first. Quite why we needed such a defensively minded player against a team who often had all 11 men in their own half, and only one striker is beyond me - I feel we should have rested him and started with Edu. But really, he wasn't doing a whole lot to break up the WBA tackles when they came forward anyway. Disappointing. 4


Pires - After a few consistently good games, where he has really been able to control things on his flank at least, I think he slipped back a step today. If we had a deeper squad, perhaps we should have rested him, I don't know. That said, he didn't play particularly badly. He got the ball in dangerous positions in midfield on a number of occasions, and, although not wasteful, was not really able to offer much in the way of penetration. This, I don't believe, was really his fault. He did get given the ball approaching the final third, and was able to create time for himself, but ever time he looked up it seemed that there weren't any passes on. WBA did well to crowd their half, although I don't think Reyes running was as good as it can, or should be, and Gilberto didn't seem interested in pushing forward. Not bad, but not effective. 6

Reyes - Very sick of him today. The number of times he was caught in possession, tried and failed to beat players one on one, shot weakly or not at all were all very poor. Not only that, I don't think he helped out his midfield enough by making himself available for passes - sometimes he was there for the ball, but all too often Paddy and Bobby were searching for an outlet and he just didn't seem interested. What positives from the game today? Well, his assist for Van Persie was decent - he beat his man well, and chose the right pass, although when it reached RVP it was a foot and a half off the ground. Also, at least he DID start to get himself into positions where he had chances in the second half, even if his actual finishing was awful. Still, a very poor performance. 4

RVP - Excellent, in my view. In the first half, he looked much the brighter of our strikers, more willing to come deep to collect the ball, not giving it away as much, and more willing to work for the team. Took his goal superbly. Wasn't able to create too much for himself, but was full of running until he was taken off. Why he went off instead of Reyes is also strange - I'll assume it was fatigue, because he was the far better striker. 8.5

Subs

Bergkamp - Although he was able to get more involved than either RVP or Reyes towards the end, didn't really look like he offered too much. However, his pass to Edu was superb for the second goal, perfectly weighted. 7.5

Edu - Looked far more accomplished on the ball than most today. Didn't look like giving the ball away as much, and, although fortunate with his goal, ran well to collect it and took the right option in trying to lob Hoult. 7.5

A bit harsh on some players, especially because we got a 2-0 win away from home, but I really think that the boys were very under par today.
 

dynasty

Active Member
I feel your a bit biased on players you like and dislike....
rvp..did nothing except the goal. and was quieter than reyes in the 1st half...
i feel you underrated some players and over rated some...
 

Legend#1

Established Member
Reyes was much better than what you said..

1st half he wasn't.. but 2nd half he was.. made some great runs.. made chances for himself out of nothing cause Pires and Cesc were awful and were far too narrow.. Pires was non-existent.. didn't help the front 2 at all.. no one did.. Vieira was losing possession and didn't provide much going forward.. although he played well imho.. but as the attacking CM.. he didn't provide any attacking spark.. dwelled on the ball far too long and didn't keep the play flowing.. his passing was questionable at best.. but his all round game was good.

Pires was awful.. hardly noticed him.. didn't help the front 2.. always passing backwards.. was always central.. worst performance of the season.. and he's my favourite player.

Cesc is knackered.. plain and simple.. tried hard.. but it's not his favoured position.

Gilberto played well.. done his usual job.. he isn't known for going forward so 4 is real out of order and OTT.

RvP was great 2nd half.. great touch and goal after great play from Reyes.. after they finally got a bit of space.. great celebration too.. RvP is a genius in the making.

Senderos was MOM.. a mammoth in defence.. great tackling.. positioning.. even showed some pace.. distribution is still awful.. but 1st half his punts upfield were more from frustration.. cause WBA as Winterburn said were playing 5-5-0
 

kel varnsen

Established Member
yep. biased. toure was actually very solid today and both reyes and gilberto did ok. van persie 8,5? no way. a great goal, but other than that. not much...
 

asajoseph

Established Member
I feel your a bit biased on players you like and dislike....

Bollocks.

I LIKE Reyes, and I LIKE Gilberto. I passed the 2,000 post mark today, and if you'd read many of them, you'd find that quite clearly.

rvp..did nothing except the goal. and was quieter than reyes in the 1st half...

Again, that simply isn't true - he made runs, and made some good passes. Also, was able to hold the ball up better than Reyes. For me, he looked a lot more likely to score, until, eventually, he did. He was able to control the ball, and made far better decisions than Reyes.
 

flash

Active Member
My Ratings

Lehman 6.5
Lauren 6.5
Kolo 6.5
Senderos 8
Cole 6.5
Pires 6
Vieria 7.5
Gilberto 6.5
Fabregas 6
RVP 7
REyes 7

Edu 7
Bergkamp 7
My rationale tomorrow - gotta go to bed -work tomorrow - I know I'm a lightweight!
 

asajoseph

Established Member
yep. biased. toure was actually very solid today and both reyes and gilberto did ok. van persie 8,5? no way. a great goal, but other than that. not much...

Perhaps some need to realise that football is as much about what you do off the ball as what you do on the ball. Reyes, when passed to, continually dribbled up his own arse, and got caught in possession time after time. Created a few chances for himself in the second half, but simply didn't have the confidence to shoot at the right time. But off the ball, he just wasn't moving for the midfield, which in turn reflected poorly on them. Yeah, sometime he made the runs, but simply nowhere near often enough. I believe it went some way to making Pires look simply ineffectual.

RVP, on the other hand, was excellent off the ball today, and not nearly as wasteful as Reyes on it.

As for Toure being solid - I take it you missed the several occasions he gave the ball straight to their forwards in attacking positions? Or the occasion toward the end where he got caught completely out of position and allowed Clement to get clean through into the box?
 

sabret00the

Established Member
Re: WBA 0 vs Arsenal 2 - My Player Ratings

asajoseph said:
Philippe Senderos - Mammoth defensively today. Looked very mature sheperding players, using his strength well, and looked pacey on occasion. HOWEVER, how many times, particularly in the first half, did he just hoof the ball up the pitch, to nobody in particular, other than Russell Hoult? Sure, he's not supposed to be the creative spark in the team, but must learn to not be so wasteful. 8
generally good post but i feel it's lacking in that you failed to realise, those long balls were all into space not to the keeper, he overestimated reyes's pace and positional awareness, i'm not a fan of long ball but it was clear that's what he was trying.

in short i felt let down by our whole midfield and of the two strikers i like asa felt RvP was the better of the two though they were both poor, for all the running reyes was doing what was it for, they weren't space making or coming for the ball, we approached the game in one of the laziest manors i've ever seen, saying that RvP was the focal point of excitement where i was, when he got the ball we felt like something was about to be created and he was one of the few players constantly looking for the ball and when he had it, looking for the forward pass, it was weird to see someone playing on the shoulder of the last defender in an Arsenal shirt but he took on the role well. Fantastic defensive display by our team.
 

asajoseph

Established Member
Oh, sure, it's clear what he was trying. He just wasn't really pulling it off. I feel bad nit-picking in the kids recent performances, because he's really stepped up, but generally I think his distribution is quite weak. He'll work on it over the summer, I'm sure...
 

Gooner83

Well-Known Member
My Ratings

Lehman 7
Lauren 7
Kolo 5 < shakey
Senderos 8
Cole 7
Pires 7
Vieria 6 < offnight, too many misplaced passes
Gilberto 4 < not commanding enough
Fabregas 5 < not really havin a great time
RVP 8 < great goal so little space.
REyes 9 < best player on the night, looked a threat hard luck not scoring but hes finally showing hes the gypsy king the way he loves running at defenders and round keepers, it will come in time.

Edu 7 < class passing and movement
Bergkamp 7 < good assist not alot to do.
 

kissmyface

Active Member
I actually think Vieira could have done more to make space when he didnt have the ball. He didnt create the angles for a pass, the way an attacking midfielder should.

Gilberto was poor today I agree. Last week thought he was out best player, tonight he was below average.

The whole team was ****e if im being honest. Bar Senderos.

I do feel Vieira and Gilberto would have had an easier time if Cesc and Pires stayed bloody wide. This resulted in the only passes going forward from Vieira to Reyes and RvP stright down the middle which was COMPLETELY over crowded with WBA players.

Lehmann - 5 Nothing to do. Made a dodgey kick. 1 Good save.

Lauren - 5 kick through his player once or twice. Positioning along side Toure let in one of their players, but he recovered well.

Toure - 5 won some good headers, but his passing was sloppy and he looked nervous right from the kick off. Along side Lauren, they got caught out of position.

Senderos - 7.5 Poor passing, but very commanding when defending. Showed great pace against Earnshaw and also Strength against Kevin Campbell. Superb (other than passing).

Cole - 6 Like many others, found it hard to find his first touch. Caught out a couple of time, but Pires offered no cover whatsoever, the lazy bastard. So Cole did well considering.

Cesc - 5 Drifted in far too much. Showed touches of brilliance and his first touch was great. But caught in possesison as he lacks the pace of a winger. Offered no width whatsoever.

Gilberto - 5 Poor. Passing not upto much. Good defensive headers. Not much else. Pires and Cesc made Bertie worse by offering no outlets wide.

Vieira 6.5 - Completely hot and cold. Showed alot of heart and effort, but thats not the passing of the best CM in the world. That wouldnt cut it at the highest level. Often played it right into WBA players feet and didnt make space for others to pass to him. Pires and Cesc made Vieira worse by offering no outlets wide.

Pires 4 - Waste of fecking space. Didnt cover Cole. Looked as if he didnt care about Cole. Didnt fight...looked lazy and lacklustre.

Reyes - 5 - Ok. Great skill to set up goal. Should have scored twice. Often outmuscled, often too long on the ball. Passing was ok.

RvP - 5.5 - Only this high becuase he scored. Again not so much his fault as there was no wdith and could only receive passes centrally from Vieira. WBA accounted for this in numbers. The young dutchman never had a chance. Until the goal. Cracking finish. 2 shots 1 goal tonight. 2 shots against B'burn, 2 goals. Clinical.

======

Subs: Edu 5. Looked decent. Bergkamp 5. Set up a goal.

Edit: I cant beleive people are giving 9's and 8's. ANYONE perform like this against United and we'll get slaughtered in the final. Chelsea would have hammered us...Villa would have given us a good go. 10 is the best you can get...this was no where near CL quality footy. Put those high scores away. Astonishing.
 

OneProudGooner

Established Member
I don't agree that most our players deserved 5's why? Because we were outnumbered in midfield and although Cesc did alright to cope with the pressure he's no winger and Pires was no where.
 

kissmyface

Active Member
Well Vieira's the captain - he didnt tick Pires off once, he didnt tell Cesc to stop drifting narrow, he didnt make space himself.

Gilberto was rubbish, but won headers.

These are World cup winners. Granted Wengers tactics may not have been spot on to maximise the game to our potential, but these players have to deal with that. Comparing Vieira here to Blackburn matches, Sp**s matches etc, where Id have given him an 8 at most, I think Im being quite fair giving him a 6.5. If you think the others who got 5's were better thgan him, youre wrong.

It was a very below par performance by the team. But we got the pints. The performance isnt so important.

My reason for so many 5's = they didnt do much, made a couple of minor erros that may have cost us in big games. Looked OK. Average. Weekly scores I expect to see are 7's to 8's. Have your game of a season I'd give 9. Have the game of your life - 10.
 

Chicago

Active Member
dynasty said:
I feel your a bit biased on players you like and dislike....
rvp..did nothing except the goal. and was quieter than reyes in the 1st half...
i feel you underrated some players and over rated some...

RVP had the only real opportunity in the first half, and Reyes screwed up his breakaway, should have been an easy goal for a striker
 

kissmyface

Active Member
Yeah - Reyes should have DEFINATELY scored twice. Needs to work on his right footed shooting. This let Moore back in the door to tackle and wasnt confident enough to slot it past the keeper. His finishing isnt great.
 

gunnertilldeath

Established Member
okay so reyes' finishing was poor but most of his chances, he created by himself. he was a real handful today. he had an assist as well and was full of running throughout the game. a 4 for reyes?? come on. thats not fair at all. gilberto a 4 as well?? no way. his passing was eratic but he came in with some very good tackles and didnt stop running as well. some of the ratings i've seen are absolutely harsh. van persie had 2 shots. that was it. one went in but to lavish praise upon him like he was a constant tormentor is unfair. i'd give him a 7.5 actually. i think too many of us expect champagne football every week. it wont ****ing happen. this was an ugly game that we WON. where flair didnt work, the team used guts in the second half. they restricted albion to 1 shot on target in the second half. thats as much a testament to the midfield bareer as it is to the back 4. in the first half we were really poor but we were away from home against a team battling for survival. it wasnt the best performance but please dont over-bash the lads. they came away with the win against a very spirited side.
 

patrick42uk

Established Member
i keep repeating this, but the reason reyes has to start, also the reason he doesnt get taken off is pace. Arsène likes to have someone with pace up there, even more so when the opposition is chasing the game.
 

kissmyface

Active Member
Cool, but when Henry comes back?

I can understand him staying on when Henry isnt there, i guess. But I dont think reyes and Bergkamp can play together personally.
 

sabret00the

Established Member
But patrick we've got another pacey striker in Ali so theirs really no need for the favouritism, in all honesty reyes deserved to go off more so than RvP who got the goal and should've if anything come off in the final ten minutes.

i would also like to note in this thread that so many of you make me laugh you've been screaming for a target man like Owen, RVP goes out there and plays that role today and you get pissed off with him, if the midfield done their job and created the space i honestly think he could've been a huge contributing factor in tearing them apart but he had to play an awfully tight game and made the most of the ball once it was given to him.

we played **** today and that was down to the midfield and if i'm honest as well Pires deserved to come off more so than Cesc.
 
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