Premier League 2019/20: The race for Europe

[Riou]

For me Vieira was 100% world class. But one of the strengths of his game was the physical battle. Roy Keane said when he was up against Vieria he had to be on it from the first second.

Those 2 players were lethal but challenges they made that weren't bookings in the past probably today would be. Things that were yellows then could be reds. He would still be a world class but I think the edge of his game wouldnt be the same as the game is very soft now.

You could also say could certain players now cope with the demands back then?

But I don't like doing this tbf, comparing eras in that way...all that counts is what you do when you are playing.

 

[14Henry]

But what are indications that league is better now ?

From 98 to 2008 how many different PL winners were there?

From 2008- present how many different winners?

A league cant be deemed strong when the same team wins it every single year. Basically like United did apart from us hopping in the odd year.

2 English teams hold both European trophies.

City are favourites from what I remember to win the CL. United are favourites to win the Europa League. So it shows a strength in the league. Not just one team dominating.

There is no longer a clear top 4 like there was for years. Leciester and Wolves were right in there with chances. You could have bet 15 years ago who was finishing top 4. It was predictable.

Nowadays it's not. Liverpool where nowhere to be seen 4 years ago now they are the best. Chelsea were domainting but lost their way a little. Who would have thought when Fergie retired United would fall so far. Yes they are coming back but slowly.

For me the league is much more competitive now than it was 15 years ago or so. And a more competitive league means a stronger one.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Don't think any Arsenal fan has ever said this though.

Really? Woeful stuff.

Ceballos the next Santi, David Luiz captain and our front three better than the Liverpool three.

 

[Notorious Big]

From 98 to 2008 how many different PL winners were there?

From 2008- present how many different winners?

A league cant be deemed strong when the same team wins it every single year. Basically like United did apart from us hoping in.

2 English teams hold both European trophies.

City are favourites from what I remember to win the CL. United are favourites to win the Europa League. So it shows a strength in the league. Not just one team dominating.

We compared period from 2004 to 2010 to how league looks now.Just because they had good last season in Europe,it doesn't mean that leagues is great,while already this season it will be lesser EPL teams in later stages.

It's more competitve because quality of teams was worse,so you can have different winners.Simple as that.How Barcelona and Real win La Liga every season and not some other teams ? Is league **** or those teams are just too good ?

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Really? Woeful stuff.

Ceballos the next Santi, David Luiz captain and our front three better than the Liverpool three.

That's why nobody take AFTV mate.

 

[Notorious Big]

. And a more competitive league means a stronger one.

No,there is no correlation between those two.

 

[14Henry]

We compared period from 2004 to 2010 to how league looks now.Just because they had good last season in Europe,it doesn't mean that leagues is great,while already this season it will be lesser EPL teams in later stages.

It's more competitve because quality of teams was worse,so you can have different winners.Simple as that.How Barcelona and Real win La Liga every season and not some other teams ? Is league **** or those teams are just too good ?

Those teams are too good and have a complete monopoly over players. Similar to Bayern. The minute a team like Betis get a decent player they come in and steal them. Similar to what United did in the 90s.

Why do you believe the PL was stronger say 15-20 years ago.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Interesting.

Lacazette getting free-pass in his thread from the same people who demand Giroud to be murdered for scoring more league goals for us in a season.

 

[14Henry]

No,there is no correlation between those two.

So more competitive means weaker?

When the league is not dominated by 1 team it is weaker?

When the same top 4 year in year are there it is a sign of a strong league.

Predictable means strong?

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

But what are indications that league is better now ?

All-English CL and EL finals, 4 of the best-ever point tallies in the past 3 years, insane amounts of spending relative to continental leagues bar a few giants (with bottomfeeders ponying up as well), Pep/Klopp/Mou/ex-Poch in one league, teams of Sp**s/our quality not sniffing the top 4 despite a fair number pretty classy (and a few world class) players, the ascent + retention of key players by Leicester and Wolves, 2-3 players in each of the relegated teams who can / will get semi-regular-to-regular games at European-quality outfits next season, etc.

As I’ve said before though, the main difference is financial doping at City/Chelsea (and to a much lesser extent Leicester) adding two more elite, global dreadnoughts to the league’s equation, and TV money allowing bottom of table teams to snap up international talent. The rest of the stuff has kind of evened out. Liverpool and United have sort of swapped places, Wolves are Leeds-esque (or later, Villa), Sp**s aren’t too far off Newcastle (WC striker who should have left, good not great supporting cast), etc. Us falling from grace isn’t enough to counterbalance the rise of City and Chelsea.

 

[Riou]

1996-2004 was a great period for England aswell, obviously we were great then so I am always gonna say that...but even if you take out Arsenal and United from the equation (but make no mistake, some of the squads these two teams had were some of the best the country has ever seen) you still had some great teams below that.

Newcastle under Keegan and Robson, poor defense but lovely going forward.

Leeds had a wonderful team back then too, just up against true greats in Arsenal and United.

Liverpool had some top teams back then, but once again Arsenal and United were titans.

Even Chelsea before the money were pretty damn good.

At the end of the day it's all about preference, I still feel there are some very good teams now...but I also feel if you took Liverpool and City away, the rest of the league doesn't quite stack up to what came before it these last few years (taking the top teams away from each season too, btw)

 

[Notorious Big]

So more competitive means weaker?

When the league is not dominated by 1 team it is weaker?

When the same top 4 year in year are there it is a sign of a strong league.

Predictable means strong?

It's not rocket science.If league has 4 quality teams that dominate in Europe,it's understandable that they would dominate in their own league,no ? So it will be less competitive.How would you rate quality of league apart from their results in Europe ? There is no chance to say that Sevilla is better than Sp**s just based on how they play in league and with no head to head duels.

EPL lacked quality in period who you mentioned,so ofc there were different winners and league looked tighter and more competitive.

 

[krengon]

It's not rocket science.If league has 4 quality teams that dominate in Europe,it's understandable that they would dominate in their own league,no ? So it will be less competitive.How would you rate quality of league apart from their results in Europe ? There is no chance to say that Sevilla is better than Sp**s just based on how they play in league and with no head to head duels.

EPL lacked quality if period who you mentioned,so ofc there were different winners and league looked tighter and more competitive.

06/07 you had 3 pl teams in the CL semi's, 1 in the final. In 07/08 you had 3 pl teams in the CL semi's, 2 in the finals. That's dominance. From 04/05 to 08/09 there was always at least one pl team in the cl final..

 

[Notorious Big]

All-English CL and EL finals, 4 of the best-ever point tallies in the past 3 years, insane amounts of spending relative to continental leagues bar a few giants (with bottomfeeders ponying up as well), Pep/Klopp/Mou/ex-Poch in one league, teams of Sp**s/our quality not sniffing the top 4 despite a fair number pretty classy (and a few world class) players, the ascent + retention of key players by Leicester and Wolves, 2-3 players in each of the relegated teams who can / will get semi-regular-to-regular games at European-quality outfits next season, etc.

As I’ve said before though, the main difference is financial doping at City/Chelsea (and to a much lesser extent Leicester) adding two more elite, global dreadnoughts to the league’s equation, and TV money allowing bottom of table teams to snap up international talent. The rest of the stuff has kind of evened out. Liverpool and United have sort of swapped places, Wolves are Leeds-esque (or later, Villa), Sp**s aren’t too far off Newcastle (WC striker who should have left, good not great supporting cast), etc. Us falling from grace isn’t enough to counterbalance the rise of City and Chelsea.

Yeah,but that's just one season.It can't say anything about league.Any league that was rated best in Europe had consistency in their results and winning titles.

This season already looked different.City will maybe be only team in quater-finals in CL and they did fine in EL with Utd and Wolves.Still think it wasn't enough to compare to period from 2004 to 2010.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

Yeah,but that's just one season.It can't say anything about league.Any league that was rated best in Europe had consistency in their results and winning titles.

This season already looked different.City will maybe be only team in quater-finals in CL and they did fine in EL with Utd and Wolves.Still think it wasn't enough to compare to period from 2004 to 2010.

Most of those characteristics are ‘multi-seasonal’ — only the CL/EL point isn’t. And while I agree that ‘14-‘20 wasn’t quite as good as ‘04-‘10, I think the top-to-bottom quality of PL the last year or two tops the heights of any of those individual seasons.

Yeah,but that's just one season.It can't say anything about league.Any league that was rated best in Europe had consistency in their results and winning titles.

This season already looked different.City will maybe be only team in quater-finals in CL and they did fine in EL with Utd and Wolves.Still think it wasn't enough to compare to period from 2004 to 2010.

FWIW, it seems to be pretty accepted abroad that the PL is of a different standard right now.

 

[Kav]

What you have to remember is you are basing your opinions about what was better or who was better having watched Terry, Gerrard, Henry play for 10-15 years in the PL.

KDB for me is a much beyer than Gerrard or Lampard was. But we remember all the things the previous 2 did as they were here longer.

Van Dijk is every bit as good as the defenders you mentioned. Vincent Kompany only left last year was a beast. Laporte is an excellent defender. Not Terry or Rio quality but hes only 23/24 so still learning.

Look at the quality of full backs around.

TAA, Robertson, Walker, Perreria of Leciester. Wan Bisakka. All top top full backs. Better than Carragher was. Better than Neville was.

The game has also changed considerably. Vieira and Keane wouldnt probably be as good today as the game is softer and you cant get away with as much physically now.

How old are you and when did you start watching football?

Let me tell you prime Essien, Robben, makalele, petit, scholes, vieira, fabregas, nasri, ballack, Lampard, Veron, where all better than KDB. If I go further back Barnes, mcmanaman, were also class. Not to even mention the litany of forwards.

if you’re going to go on about defenders you should make yourself knowledgeable. Campbell, Toure, Gallas, Carvalho, Vidic, Ferdinand, Terry,were all better than Van Dijk. If I go back farther So was Dessaily, blanc, staam.

you also have the audacity to list mediocre full backs when Cole, Sagna, Baines, evra, would wipe the floor with TAA. He’s not even better than Gareth Bale when he played LB for them lot.

You have much to figure out.

 

[Makingtrax]

Interesting.

Wondering what happened in 1996, let me think. Wenger Out lol.

 

[14Henry]

How old are you and when did you start watching football?

Let me tell you prime Essien, Robben, makalele, petit, scholes, vieira, fabregas, nasri, ballack, Lampard, Veron, where all better than KDB. If I go further back Barnes, mcmanaman, were also class. Not to even mention the litany of forwards.

if you’re going to go on about defenders you should make yourself knowledgeable. Campbell, Toure, Gallas, Carvalho, Vidic, Ferdinand, Terry,were all better than Van Dijk. If I go back farther So was Dessaily, blanc, staam.

you also have the audacity to list mediocre full backs when Cole, Sagna, Baines, evra, would wipe the floor with TAA. He’s not even better than Gareth Bale when he played LB for them lot.

You have much to figure out.

I'm 30.

So your saying Gallas and a 35 year old Laurent Blanc were better than Van Dijk

Mcmanaman and Veron one of the biggest flops in England were better than KDB

Leighton Baines a mediocre footballer with a decent left foot is better than TAA

Does anybody else agree with this? I dont know from which planet your watching your football from but it certainly isnt earth.

 

[krengon]

I'm 30.

So your saying Gallas and a 35 year old Laurent Blanc were better than Van Dijk

Mcmanaman and Veron one of the biggest flops in England were better than KDB

Leighton Baines a mediocre footballer with a decent left foot is better than TAA

Does anybody else agree with this? I dont know from which planet your watching your football from but it certainly isnt earth.

nah that's too far lol.. KDB and Van Dijk are among the best to have ever played in the pl, and you can make cases for them being top 5 in their position.. Personally I think TAA is going to end up as the best rb in pl history too if he can keep this up. Longevity remains to be seen though..

 

[14Henry]

nah that's too far lol.. KDB and Van Dijk are among the best to have ever played in the pl, and you can make cases for them being top 5 in their position.. Personally I think TAA is going to end up as the best rb in pl history too if he can keep this up. Longevity remains to be seen though..

That's what some knowledgable football person said a few posts up. Couldnt believe my eyes when they were saying things like Veron was better than KDB and Laurent Blanc better than VVD.

I guess some people just haven't a clue.