Stoke vs Arsenal ratings

[Ron Burgundy]

Appearances last season (Vela's first season, including notorious 'blooding' period):

Theo - 22
Vela - 14

The term 'appearances' is very unfair. Looking at starts in all competitions last season:

Theo - 27 starts
Vela - 10 starts

Appearances this season:

Theo - 9
Vela - 8

I can't understand why people seem to think that Theo gets far more chances than Vela does.

Theo has been injured for the majority of this season, so those stats are misleading.

 

[Swish]

Theo has been injured for the majority of this season, so those stats are misleading.

So has Vela. Your point?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Theo has been injured for the majority of this season, so those stats are misleading.

So has Vela. Your point?

I don't really want to get into this... but do you really think Theo and Vela have been injured for a similar amount of time this season? Really?
And do you really think Carlos has it as easy as Theo with regards to playing time, or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

 

[Swish]

I never said that the time spent was comparable. But Vela hasn't exactly been available all these games that people are making out that he was just 'overlooked' in.

Vela hasn't had half of the good performances that Theo has had at this club, so naturally, Theo is more likely to start a game than Vela is. But like I discussed somewhere else, Vela has Arshavin in his way, somebody who isn't exactly injury prone. Walcott has Rosicky, Nasri and to a lesser extent, Eboue in his position. So of course Walcott gets more starts as of late, but thats more down to the fact that Rosicky and Nasri have been injured more so than Wenger giving Walcott an 'easy ride'.

If Arshavin was out at the same time as Rosicky and Nasri, I'm almost certain that Vela would start games.

 

[Humble Rex]

Theo is coming back from injury so he has some sort of excuse, but once again he was abysmal. He looks absolutely clueless. He did make a superb diagonal run though, where he recieved the ball and passed it on. More of that please!
Fabianski was at fault for the first goal, and there were a few low crosses he should have dealt with better. He comes for more high balls than Almunia generally, but at least I don´t have any great confidence that he will actually get said crosses. Still looks a very immature goalkeeper, and I can´t imagine that a back 4 will feel confident with him between the posts any time soon. He hasn´t played much this season, so he is excused to some extent.
Those who claim that Sol won all aerial balls that mattered today should really watch the game again. In my view he lost more headers today than Gallas does even on his worst form. He seemed to have trouble actually getting off the ground sometimes! Was involved in Stoke´s third goal, and was royally fooled by Fuller´s run for Stoke´s second.
No one was particularly impressive, but I liked bits of what JET and Eastmond showed.
Ramsey looked good as well when he came on.
And then there is Denilson. I think he is a good player with a lot of potential. He had a sub-par performance today though. Almost cost us a penalty again when he tried to bring a ball down that he just should have headed away. Silvestre then fouled Fuller in an attempt to clear up Denilson´s mess. When people have previously said that he doesn´t chase runners I have always disagreed. But after having seen the incident leading up to Stoke´s second goal several times, I have to say that it certainly didn´t look as if Denilson did all he could have done there. ´nuff said.

 

[GoonerGurjit]

Fabianski 5
Coquelin 4
Campbell 6
Silvestre 5
Traore 5
Denilson 5
Eastmond 5
Fabregas 6
Vela 5
Walcott 3
Emmanuel-Thomas 6

 

[nazo]

Fabianski 5
Coquelin 5
Campbell 5
Silvestre 5
Traore 5
Denilson 5
Eastmond 5
Fabregas 5
Vela 5
Walcott 1
Emmanuel-Thomas 5

 

[Double_H]

Theo 0
Traore 0
Denilson 0

bunch of championship players

 

[arsmile]

there wasn't anything he did to warrant those ratings..

there wasnt anything he did to warrant any rating, that's the problem....i'm not even sure he exists...i've got imaginary friends who have a more emperically measurable influence on realworld events than him.

those imaginary friends would offer up more thought out ratings too id imagine :roll:

no, my imaginary firends agree with me, i wouldnt be friends with someone who was stupid enough to not....

Appearances this season:

Theo - 9
Vela - 8
.

but that is despite the fact that theo has only been fit and available for about 9 games this season, whereas vela hasnt been injured that much at all and was instead overlooked.

when theo's fit- wenger is far too keen to start him.

Give over, Vela has spent a collective couple of months injured this season. He went completely off the radar when coming back from Mexico because nobody knew that he was still out injured.

Theo was fit for the second Bolton game, he came on as a sub. In fact, Theo has made a lot of sub appearances this season. It's probably due to the fact that Theo mainly plays on the right wing, which has been primarily contested by Nasri (who has been injured for most of the season), Rosicky (who has been injured for most of the season) and Eboue (who is currently at the ACN) whereas Vela mainly plays on the left wing which is primarily contested with Arshavin (who hasn't been injured at all).

theo has basically missed the entire season so far- and has featured in some form or another whenever fit. Vela hasnt missed the majority of the season- not since the first few months at least- just look at how often a fit vela is on the bench. Theo holds a position in thsi squad and in wenger's eyes that he does not deserve. If theo was an academy player and not one we'd spent quite a lot of money on i reckon wenger would have sold him by now..

..it is proposterous to suggest that wenger doesnt consider theo above vela in this squad. it is a whole nother argument as to whether that is fair. Anh argument, which is, as it goes, similarly proposterous.....

there wasnt anything he did to warrant any rating, that's the problem....

Does scoring a goal be the only way you classify him as doing something, .

touching the ball more than 6 times in an hour might be a start. some movment that in some way indicates that he was at some level engaged in the football match he was supposed to be playing. Enough composure to not make the wrong decision and then execute it badly at every opportunity.

you know...just briefly doing somethign that was recognisably football.


he offers us nothing, whether he one day will is another question. (i have serious doubts)...but now he is a huge liability- liek he was the whole of last season and the whole of the season before that, we are a stronger squad when he is injured to be frank.

 

[AliBabaBrewer]

Fabianski - 5
Coquelin - 4
Campbell - 7
Silvestre - 5
Traore - 6
Eastmond - 6
Denilson - 5
Fabregas - 6
Walcott - 4
Vela - 5
Emmanuel-Thomas - 5

Ramsey - 6
Arshavin - 5
Eduardo - 5

 

[Swish]

I've already argued that point arsmile, not sure if it was in here though.

Fact is, the deciding factor for who starts more isn't a decision made by Wenger. It's made by who is fit and who is injured. Theo has Nasri, Rosicky and to a lesser extent, Eboue who compete for that role. Nasri and Rosicky have both spent large parts of this season out injured, hence Theo has started more because we had no other option.

Vela on the other hand, pretty much has Arshavin in contention for that spot. Arshavin is a far better player and isn't injured that much. Hence less starts.

Not only that, but even if everyone was fit, Vela shouldn't be starting more than Theo. Theo has put in performances that has proved he can play at this level. Vela hasn't had anywhere near the amount of great performances that Theo has provided in the past.

 

[Swish]

touching the ball more than 6 times in an hour might be a start. some movment that in some way indicates that he was at some level engaged in the football match he was supposed to be playing. Enough composure to not make the wrong decision and then execute it badly at every opportunity.

you know...just briefly doing somethign that was recognisably football.


he offers us nothing, whether he one day will is another question. (i have serious doubts)...but now he is a huge liability- liek he was the whole of last season and the whole of the season before that, we are a stronger squad when he is injured to be frank.

The whole of last season? Discounting the second half of last season when he was injured, he was one of our best players for the first half of last season. The season before that was his best season in an Arsenal shirt. It was so good, it comfortably kicked Beckham out of the England squad. So that comment is steeped in bullshit.

As for offering us nothing and wondering whether he one day will, will provoke a response from me that Armor got which also proves that you're talking bollocks.

Mod Edit: Not for the first time - no Arsenal clips allowed.

And I remember you used to be such a smart poster who had a good head on his shoulders. You've been in Arsenal Talk for too long.

 

[Humble Rex]

Theo´s great performances... He had a good start to last season before he got injured. He showed promise, looked dangerous. In my book, that is what he has going for him. Even during those games he only showed glimpses, he was only sporadically involved in our general play. Those games go to show that he CAN actually be a good player for us. Other than that he has made an impact here and there.
BUT, games he has played that I would consider good performances are easily counted. The few good games he has had does NOT warrant the amount of games he has actually been given. Let´s face it; he is more often quite useless than that he actually offers something to the team.
If you look up the word "passenger" in a dictionary, you will find a picture of young mr. Walcott... For now anyway.

 

[arsmile]

that run swift was fantastic. i once made this awsome save right, it was liek the seaman facup save- from a corner.......but better; won us the game. It does not make me good enough for arsenal.

those moments are too few are far between with theo, it's not entirely his fault- we play 80% of our game 30 yards in front of the opponent's goal with their defence on the edge of their area.....theo has no weapons in his arsenal to be effective on the right wing in our system.

Vela is a footballer- he is similarly perhaps not always inspiring, but when he is ineffective he is at least someone to exchange a 1-2 with, theo doenst have that.

 

[AliBabaBrewer]

Just as a point of interest, what's the expiry date on some players form is excusable due to their injuries?

Because Eduardo has 6 goals in 24 appearances.

And as soon as that is mentioned in any thread, it's punishable by a punch to the neck, because he's golden because of the injury.

But that 2 years ago, and he's had niggling things yes, but nothing as bad as Van Persie.

At what point does it stop being 'He's still finding his feet' and 'Well this is a worry..'?

 

[truth_hurts]

Arsène Wenger - 1.5 - did he honestly think it was good idea to send a reserve team to the britania against a tough stoke team and throw away our best chance at silverware. Made 3 subs which didn't work.

 

[Biggus]

Meh, after the humiliations of being hammered 4-0 by Utd and 5-1 by Sp**s we collapsed too, all the signs are there for those who want to read them.
The lads will need to dig deep into their mental strength now, cheers Arsène.

 

[Humble Rex]

Just as a point of interest, what's the expiry date on some players form is excusable due to their injuries?

Because Eduardo has 6 goals in 24 appearances.

And as soon as that is mentioned in any thread, it's punishable by a punch to the neck, because he's golden because of the injury.

But that 2 years ago, and he's had niggling things yes, but nothing as bad as Van Persie.

At what point does it stop being 'He's still finding his feet' and 'Well this is a worry..'?

Eduardo also has 7 assists, and of those 24 games only 15 are starts. Good numbers for any striker me thinks...
Not to mention that his overall game visibly gets better for each game. What he still lacks is his scoring boots, which actually makes his stats even more impressive.
No excuses needed for Edu. His game is doing all the needed talking.

 

[P_Gunner]

You think Eduardo has been good this season? Wow.

 

[Humble Rex]

Eduardo in his last couple of games has contributed with goals and assists. Nothing to do with what I think, it´s a fact.
However, I DO think that he has shown significant improvements regarding playing as our CF over the last couple of games. His hold-up play gets better, his involvement in our general play gets better, his runs get better. Right now I only think he misses a bit of the strength and speed he had prior to his injury, and his ability to put away the clear cut chances he put away for fun before.
My point is, that even though he clearly isn´t at a 100 % he still contributes.