The tactics thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by say yes, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. Arsenal in Aus

    Arsenal in Aus Active Member

    Vieira & Fabregas. Is there any option?
    El Granit-Coq and North5 like this.
  2. GoonerJay24

    GoonerJay24 Well-Known Member

    Arteta and Viera
  3. Riou

    Riou Non-Stop Nostalgia

    Answer is clearly Flamini and Denilson, lads.
    chessygoal and Trofton like this.
  4. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    To get away from the constant player evaluation I thought I should rewatch the goals of the Norwich game. Two things really stand out:

    The vertical and horizontal distance within our team.

    We are so spread out. We totally lack compactness. We easily have 50 yards between our defence and attack.

    When Willock loses the ball for the first goal it just takes 2 passes to carve through our whole team. Xhaka and Guendouzi are at least 20-25 yards from the CBs. David Luiz is running towards his own goal so fast he creates so much space for Pukki it is unbelievable. Chambers is higher than Willock and the two of them can only jog back having no impact whatsoever. Xhaka is just trying to cover some space but gets easily bypassed as is Guendouzi.

    On the second goal it is the same. Xhaka and Chambers are bypassed and caught out of position. David Luiz is also caught out of position so it ends up being Mustafi and Kola running towards our goal like mad in a 2 vs 2. Cantwell is trailing the whole situation and he isn't picked up and he scores as Xhaka arrives when the ball is in the net. Again it was two passes once the break was really on.

    Our defenders totally panic and run towards their own goal and no one tries to actually stop the attack or properly pick up and mark opposition players

    On both goals not a single defender tries to get close and get the opposition player off the ball. All they do is back deeper and deeper and let the Norwich players get a shooting chance. On the second goal Guendouzi isn't close to seeing or picking up Cantwell and actually runs away from Cantwell and where the ball is. Xhaka is so far away he is out of the play also being bypassed at the start of the move.

    PS. Wanted to make fun of Cantwell's name but decided against it...
  5. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    CaseUteinberger likes this.
  6. Fallout

    Fallout Well-Known Member

    agree with this analysis but in truth there's no good response as a defender.

    in the wenger era, we had rash defenders like vermaelen who would lunge at the attacker to cut out the danger quickly. these guys would get bypassed whenever they mistimed the tackle.

    now we have defenders like luiz who are inexperienced in keeping a high line and drop deep by instinct. obviously that presents a different set of problems.

    we need better defenders, but we also need to learn to attack and play silky football without having to commit the entire team forward. i thought the first half vs. norwich was extremely reminiscent of wengerball in that we ran circles around them offensively only to become undone by counters caused by overcommitment of the entire team into forward areas.

    i'd prepare yourself for more of the same because freddie is likely to have been highly influenced by wenger, and the fanbase (myself included) is practically screaming for attacking football.
    Hexagon9 likes this.
  7. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    Regarding Luiz I think it can be a lack of speed that makes him want to drop back so quickly. He is scared getting level with the forward and have him run past him. That definitely goes for Sokratris.

    Best way to address this is to stay more compact and when certain players leave their position others need to fill those position so the team's shape stays intact. When we are in attack the defenders simply have to come higher so we aren't as spread out. That way when we lose the ball all the defenders are closer to the opposition and can snuff out their counter attack quickly.

    You are right that we commit too many players into the attack. At times we played with 5 or 6 players in attack. It's almost like a 3-2-5 at times or worse and then when we turn over the ball, even if it is high up the pitch it takes nothing to play through us.

    Think we need to drop the idea of playing Laca and Auba at the same time and start with one or the other as CF. Having them both on the pitch including with Özil is just too much.

    Overall problem I think is lack of drilling the shape enough. Sure we can freewheel it, but we will never win anything that way besides an FA cup here and there because the better clubs concentrate on the CL and league.
    Hexagon9 and Fallout like this.
  8. #254

    #254 Well-Known Member

    You've just made me sad:( with those memories versus what we have right now. :facepalm:
    Riou likes this.
  9. vantoure

    vantoure Well-Known Member

    I'm curious about this kind of team in a 4231 with the current available players

    Bellerin best CB combo Tierney
    Torreira Xhaka
    Pepe Özil Willock

    Willock ọn the wing reminiscent of what Wenger was doing with Ramsey for some time 2011/12? Helped to counter balance the midfield a bit, plus mitigate against Özil's "weakness". Also, Willock's ability to carry the ball may be useful in transitioning/counter attack.

    If chasing the game, bring in saka or Nelson or lacazette

    I still believe the team isn't overly bad, just mismanaged over the course of the past 18 months, thus players haven't developed, apart from maybe Guendouzi, and even that is debatable
    GoonerJay24 likes this.
  10. pikey2000

    pikey2000 Well-Known Member

    Agree with the others, we are way to open on the counter and we had a 3 man midfield against Norwich which makes you wonder how the hell it was so easy to rinse through that and get at our defense, clearly the players need coaching, Freddie appears to see the issue in that we realises it was to easy to bypass our midfield, question is can he get two of those 3 to sit in front of the defence for long enough to make us more compact and then crucially having done that can he gets the likes of Özil/Pepe and co to impact our offensive game enough so that we don't need our CM's marauding forward along with the full backs.

    I still think the back 3 has legs in it, suits Luiz, he can push into the DM slot when we are in possesion and then drop back into a back 3/5 out of possession. Xhaka/Torreira instructed not to vacate the midfield, the attack is made up very much of the front 3 plus supporting full backs WHEN the opportunity is there NOT EVERY ATTACK


    Out of possession;

    CJJ likes this.
  11. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    We miss Aaron Ramsey to be perfectly honest. Looked absolutely impotent since..
  12. HaffBR

    HaffBR Active Member

    Martinelli Aubameyang Pepe
    Torreira Guendouzi
    David Luiz
    Kolasinac Holding Sokratis Chambers

    Rotate: Lacazette, Xhaka, Tieney, Bellerin, Saka, Özil, Willock.
    Wrighty4eva likes this.
  13. Kobi

    Kobi I Know Who You Are

    We have far too many slow, unathletic players in this team.

    Look at Wenger’s best sides, look at Liverpool now, every player is an athlete.
    Fast and direct with the ball , fast and energetic winning it back, most of this team can’t run.
    This has to be addressed in January, until then I’m not really sure what we do, Pepe has to play and Aubameyang has to be closer to the goal.
    We desperately need energy in midfield you cannot play Xhaka, Torreira and Özil, teams are just walking through it.
    Maybe give Maitland Niles or ESR a try in there, nothing else has worked.
    krengon, North5 and chessygoal like this.
  14. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    Tony Adams would have us playing 10 players behind the ball to fix the defence.

    Do you agree?
    bingobob likes this.
  15. billyf

    billyf Active Member

    I ddin't watch the video but that's what I was about to comment after I watched the second half of the game. Our defence is abysmal. The left flank could not defend at all and the midfield were always behind the attackers, wtf. This is Championship level defending. Do something. Play Tierney as LW to protect the LB or someone who can do that, wtf.
  16. bingobob

    bingobob Fan of Technicians Who Show Great Character

    Very good VT. Tony Adam's tough on positioning, communication, team mates working for each other and sympathy for Luiz on the goal. What he says is spot on.

    Hargreaves on our lack of plan B or C. If we cant be the best footballing team then we need to move onto something else, winning second balls, aggression.

    Interesting take on Per Mertesacker also. And a very good point. Who is focusing on the future if he is part of the first team set up. We are a mess all over.
  17. Riou

    Riou Non-Stop Nostalgia

    We can’t be the best footballing side anymore, because we barely have any players these days that are good on the ball...very disappointing.

    The current team we have assembled since winning the FA Cup in 2015 is a joke, would fire all the scouting/transfer team for the cluster **** of a situation we are in right now...barely any thought into our ins and outs these days, no cohesion or partnerships within any 11 we can throw out now.

    How many of our backroom staff have changed over the last 2 years, it’s a joke...people are literally going to bed one day, and then waking up to a new job without any prep the next...club is a literally shambles, on and off the field.
  18. bingobob

    bingobob Fan of Technicians Who Show Great Character

    Our player acquisition strategy was highly flawed. Though I think under Emery it improved and their was logic and reasoning behind the players we signed. Just so happens that our squad is still far to big and weve a youth coach in charge who brings in more youth bloating the squad further.

    I still scratch my head at signing Lacazette then Aubameyang. Two players who play through the middle. It defied logic for a club with "limited" resources and plays 1 upfront.
    Riou likes this.
  19. pikey2000

    pikey2000 Well-Known Member

    It was classic Arsenal, we bought Lacazette as we need to refresh the front line and then Auab became available in January so we did our usual opportunistic transfer strategy of nabbing someone who is top level just because he was available rather than actually met our needs, did the same with Özil and Sanchez...more opportunistic than well thought out.
    BigPoppaPump, bingobob and Riou like this.
  20. pikey2000

    pikey2000 Well-Known Member

    I don't know why we just don't play an out and out DM, even when we line up with Willock-Xhaka-Torreira it seems to end up more like


    they all inevitably push forward together and even with a 3 man midfield we get exposed, there is acres of space behind the CM in front of the defense which has to be about positioning and game management more so than effort, even in the second half against Brighton where we had our best spell and had reverted to both of our CM's were pushing high to win the ball back up the pitch which is great until none of them win it back and yet again we leave the CM vacant and the defense exposed.

    I'm not tactical expert but until we assign someone the DM position and they are instructed not to move beyond the half way line we will continue to see this trend, your front 4 i.e ST, LW, RW, AM can initiate the high press but if we continue to include our entire CM in the high press a well we will get done time and again, especially when you consider both of our full backs are also attacking.

    Would it be that difficult to field a DM and instruct the other two CM's that when 1 pushes the other sits in anticipating the counter? i.e



    Torreira/Luiz DO NOT move from infront of the defense, there sole job is to get in the way if the other team breaks on us

    one of Xhaka/Willock support our attacks, the other sits so that they can drop in and help defensively if the attack breaks down and the other team breaks on us

    Full backs screw there heads on and understand if one of them has pushed the other sits, they don't go at the same time!

    It seems like common sense to me but our in game management is horrendous, players are literally all over the place and there are gaps everywhere, not sure if its coaching or just lack of communication and leadership on the pitch

    rant over.
    Football Manager and chessygoal like this.

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