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The tactics thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by say yes, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    He's certainly more agile than Xhaka, that alone is a huge advantage. And I agree, Emery was probably not the coach Ceballos needed. Arteta I feel will give him a more focused game when fit. I actually thought of Ceballos when Arteta came in and thought about how he can be used differently. I think as a deeper lying player he's a much bigger threat. I can see him being used similar to Xhaka if the latter leaves.
     
    Keplaz likes this.
  2. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    Why can we not keep the tactics thread for discussing tactics and not pro and cons of individual players. We have plenty of threads for that?

    Just a thought...
     
  3. carter777

    carter777 Thinks Poch Is The GOAT

    Score more goals than the opposition
     
  4. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    It's a fair point, however tactical discussions will inevitably be coloured by analysis of the players involved.
     
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  5. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    This is interesting, however it looks fairly similar to the positioning from last years fixture vs Bournemouth when Emery was in charge. Which I thought was interesting. Because I don't think we've seen anything similar this season however it is interesting that we did look like this is one of the fixtures from last year.

    [​IMG]
     
    MutableEarth likes this.
  6. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    I can definitely see some small overlap. I think analyzing the major difference requires a bit more nuance and is overall more focused on the different profiles involved and their functions in each team. The main constant here is Xhaka and Torreira, and even their roles have been tweaked in a really short space of time. They were pretty basic but effective in the match I thought, kept it quite simple and leaned on their strengths. Some of Xhaka's passes into the frontmen were the kind of passes we needed to see from him.

    Also, factor in that the formation for the match itself was a 3-4-3, which is consistent with the shape here.
     
  7. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    I think they are quite different to be honest. The one from the weekend is less offensive and weighted to more attack over Saka’s right side. Or am I reading these incorrect?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  8. Garrincha

    Garrincha Wilf Zaha Aficionado

    Bournemouth did look more than happy for us to have it up to their final third. Lerma would retreat to the same area each time.
     
  9. DJ_Markstar

    DJ_Markstar Well-Known Member

    Tactics are actually solely based on the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and necessarily play an intricate part.

    I think this is a pretty weak criticism.
     
  10. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    Agree, but feel that it is a bit of a dead end when it comes to a tactics thread as then we end up discussing each player and where they might best play which we do in all the other threads also. I personally don’t know all that much about tactics other than what I’ve picked up via books recommended here like ‘Inverting the Pyramid’ for example and by listening to TV and podcasts. Unfortunately most isn’t very in-depth.
     
    Football Manager likes this.
  11. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    Wouldn’t agree. Sure players will dictate what tactics you can use, but the various tactics are something different. Think we discuss various players strengths and weaknesses ad nauseam in other threads.

    Plus my comment wasn’t criticism but just an observation and request.
     
  12. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    Why Arteta prefers Xhaka and Torreira until Willock and Guendouzi are well coached and ready:
    Our midfielders:
    A bit on the general philosophy:
    On our striker:
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
    CaseUteinberger and pikey2000 like this.
  13. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    It will be interesting to see tomorrow if Arteta has been able to implement any of this. Guess a couple of trainings are not nearly enough but hopefully we can see some baby steps and some improvements in overall structure.
     
    Football Manager likes this.
  14. Divided_Pie

    Divided_Pie Well-Known Member

    In terms of providing proper width and spacing the way Arteta favors things:

    I think with this team and current injuries I think it will continue to be a combination of :

    a) one winger drifting inside, with the wingback on that side pushing forward and providing width (Auba and Saka left, or Pepe and Bellerin right), and

    b) one winger staying wide, with the wingback on that side tucking in to midfield (Nelson and AMN right, or Martinelli and AMN left).
     
  15. albakos

    albakos Arséne Wenger: "I will miss you" Administrator

    While reading some Q&A with Rafa at The Athletic, there were some good answers. Obviously he didn't go into revealing his secrets, but it provided for some interesting nuggets, which then compared to our situation in our team, help you understand the issues a bit better.

    It goes to explain the hugely unbalanced team that Emery left us with. While we have plenty of pace in attack, you cannot sit too deep, as our clownish defence are leaking goals like a sieve.

    Something our team needs to address in next year or so.

    Nice escape by Rafa

    Links to Q&A articles

    Rafa Benitez Q&A: Liverpool 2005 v 2019, players I’ve coveted, Celtic rumours, a Premier League return?
    Rafa Benitez Q&A: Bielsa’s Leeds, Emery’s challenge at Arsenal, Lampard and Gerrard’s managerial potential
     
    SA Gunner likes this.
  16. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    Was very very impressed by what I saw on Sunday, well for the majority of the game, we lost our way a bit but it's to be expected.

    So tight, compact and the shape was really good in a defensive sense. The major problem is that we don't have the right profiles in a few positions. Obviously FB's Maitland-Niles is doing quite well these past few games, Saka is doing kinda alright but ideally you want proper FB's. Luiz will make mistakes but I liked his performance vs Chelsea, when you're down to Mustafi tho you're just waiting for him to do something stupid but praying someone will bail him out. Still not convinced about Torreira as the 6 long-term, lacks in both the technical and physical aspects, does alright in what he's good at, anticipating, intercepting, being a real work-horse but you feel he just lacks in two vital aspects. Guendouzi is just nowhere near good enough at this stage, he lacks in so much, Xhaka is miles clear at this stage but either way it highlights the urgency for another player in midfield. You could argue we need another winger tho our options are pretty good, hopefully we can get to a stage where we can put Auba at CF.

    But even there I've highlighted several positions we need strengthening in to achieve what Arteta wants us to be because if you have weak areas they'll cost you. At best we'll become a poor version of the 16/17 City side who for all their quality was let down by their poor FB's, mistakes from Stones and the fact that their wingers weren't contributing enough at that stage. It wasn't till the following season which Sterling really exploded for example.

    Only thing you can say is that we're actually in a better position in terms of FB's, it's just about getting them fit, tho that seems to be a massive issue to the extent where I'm questioning if Bellerin is worth relying on? With Tierney it's a bit different, his injury vs West Ham was a freak injury and plenty of Celtic fans have assured me he's not injury prone. CB, we need at least one, preferably in this window. We do have to get rid of a couple in saying that but I'm sure there'd be a few suitors for Holding and Mavropanos (I'm sorry lads but they're not good enough, let's stop kidding ourselves here).

    Arteta's gonna need to backing tho, if we're in a position where we still have liabilities on the pitch then there's a ceiling to how much we can improve. You can even see that City now, as good as they are all over the pitch they're suffering because of their current options at the back, not having a suitable alternative to Laporte, not preparing for Kompany's departure, not having the best LB options available to them is costing them and has them out of the title race already. And think about how far ahead they are in terms of quality all over the pitch elsewhere.
     
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  17. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    This guy makes a good point.



    This is the ideal shape for us in order to get numerical advantages in the attacking 3rd. Perhaps why Arteta has even been favouring Auba on the left because when we attack and Saka is making up the extra attacker so we can outnumber the opposition defensive line then Auba will end up relatively central anyways. Attacking like this almost makes Saka an Nelson the wing-backs when we have the ball with AMN coming a bit more central. Of course when we're defending it'll revert back to its normal shape but this idea will help us have more options in the attackin 3rd which I feel is something we lacked.

    Perhaps the reason we could replicate this vs Chelsea is because of the threat of Willian, it even forced Auba to come wider and his average position was wider and deeper than that of against Bournemouth who perhaps don't really have the same danger as Chelsea do on the transition. It's also a reason why we could need more athletic CB's and CM's so that when we do attack with Saka being the extra defender there's guys behind him who can cover his position and help stop transitions really impacting us.

    This setup could also be part of why Arteta is preferring Nelson, he's essentially playing as a wing-back almost, or at the very least Arteta needs his RW to stay as wide as possible in order to stretch the opposition defence giving space for our more central attackers to exploit. While Pepe is someone who's best coming inside the whole time and if you keep him as wide as possible it doesn't really get the best out of him. Nelson's work-rate also helps but it's possibly not as deciding of a factor as him being a right footer and more natural in terms of maintaining width.
     
    Fewtch likes this.
  18. ptrcopp

    ptrcopp Well-Known Member

    It was never the players.

    There were moments before Chelsea where it was obvious.

    I did think the team was unbalanced.

    But if you put the players into a system where you’re playing to their strengths you get sentient performances
     
  19. Lady_Gooner

    Lady_Gooner That's Mrs. Ramsey to you buster!

    I may be wrong, but didn’t Liverpool under klopp at the beginning used to be really good in the first half then tire? Now they can put it all together. Or was that Rodgers?
    Know we are a wayyyyyyy long way off of that but it’s the pace and power era now... hopefully we can build to that
     
  20. yousif_arsenal

    yousif_arsenal King of Twitter Rumours Moderator

    Yes took klopp while to get them to this fitness level also he have players like Fabinho Henderson Gini that can run all day
     
    Lady_Gooner and North5 like this.

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